BrotherGecko Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'm heavy considering running a Rapier Battery for my future Imperial Fists Army and I am wondering about how good Rapiers are? I plan on using them first for a zone mortalis list then working up to a full army. What would be the all around best choice for both zone mortalis and regular battles? How many should be ran in a battery? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The best weapon's got to be the quad-mortar. Sure, the AP is gack, but the number of saves it'll force and the number of penetration rolls it can get will make up for that easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 However, for ZM, a case could be made that you can't fire a Quad Mortar in there because its usually an enclosed space meaning Ceilings. At which point a Graviton Rapier is awesome because your making hallway-wide zones of Dangerous/Difficult Terrain when it shoots. A case could actually be made for the Quad Heavy Bolters in ZM due to weight of fire and the only armor you'll find is Dreadnoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ah hell, I missed the ZM bit. Still, the solid shot would be pretty beefy from it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ah hell, I missed the ZM bit. Still, the solid shot would be pretty beefy from it. I mean, its a future-space-mortar, who knows, maybe it can shoot in straight lines too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Can't barrage weapons be direct fired? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Can't barrage weapons be direct fired? Its more of a Fluff Problem since the Quad Mortars shatter shells aren't Barrage. While yes, the Frag shells are nice due to gaining shred in ZM or if they already have it +1S. Its, as I've said, a fluff problem due to how Mortars usually work :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Lol I've seen mortars fired on a flat arc. They don't make a quad mortar currently do they? Haha technically a master of signals can direct fire his orbital bombardment in ZM. Not sure how that would go down ha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 In some of FW Zone Mortalis rules, they limit indirect fire weapons. I think only the Mole Mortar and the Eldar D-pulse weapon gets to be used (in terms of ordinance in ZM) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Lol I've seen mortars fired on a flat arc. They don't make a quad mortar currently do they? Yes, they do. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/SA-Rapier-Mortar-1.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Cool but not a legion sculpt and I don't like tackling major conversion with Forgegold™ haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just use a Thunderfire Cannon and strap on 2 Tac Marines as crew. Done. Phalanx Warder 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hmmmmm could work. Hoping by the time I that the financial plunge they will have made them. Any opinions on the Laser destroyer? While I can't see it being optimal for ZM I feel like its AT potential in regular 30k would be invaluable with melta being weak. The quad launcher doesn't look like it would be as threatening as games scale up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3992821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's alright-ish. Not enough shots is the main problem. Brofist 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3993047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Tbh in ZM its pretty good. Its one downside is the lack of range and on a defensive base can happily strip damage from enemy walkers which otherwise lack the options. 3 Rapier Lasers costs less than a Deredeo and has a similar damage output against Dreads for example. If not better thanks to the destroyed result potential. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3993048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It has a 48" range in the new book, so hopefully they'll keep buffing the thing. But yeah, the poor old laser destroyer doesn't have enough shots. A thudd gun is better against everything except high AV targets and MCs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3993423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Since they confirmed shatter shells for all quad mortars, it's easily the best all-around choice if you want some firepower but don't have a specific hole you need plugged in your list. Even for killing marines, shatter shells do just as well as the lasdestroyer. Lasdestroyer @ BS4 vs MEQ 0.888 hits 0.74 wounds 0.74 failed saves Shatter Shells @ BS4 vs MEQ 2.666 hits 2.222 wounds 0.74 failed saves Either one will cause ID, so no FNP. Lasdestroyer obviously has an edge against TEQ or an MC like a Castellax. But for killing marines? Either will do in a pinch, and the Shatter Shells will excel at taking down walkers. Edited March 31, 2015 by kitwulfen Raktra 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3993452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 I'm leaning towards the lasr destroyer at them moment but the gravitron gun is really cool looking. But just seems to be rather underwhelming at killing power armor for its points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3996872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastelAvenger Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The one thing people seem to forget about the Graviton Cannon is that it changes the surrounding area into Dangerous Terrain, this could slow down a infantry unit or stop a transport in its tracks and leaves them open for a mobile assault orientated squad to get the charge off they want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3998476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Far better to blow the transport to kingdom come, really. If it was cheaper I'd go for it, but now... Eh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3998553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yah that is how I feel about it. 10 to 15 points cheaper and it would be way more attractive. They definitely are dangerous in ZM but probably much less so in standard games. Would you through in a master of signal into a rapier battery for funzies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3998692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 What it is important to remember is that a dead transport forces its units to disembark and take dangeous/difficult terrain tests. It isn't a huge amount of damage, but it really slows a unit down (3 5" templates cover a HUGE area), forcing a slowed movement and assault move. Combine with overwatch and you can force assaulters to actually fail their assault move. In regards to blowing things up, sure it doesn't have the potential to just blow things up, but a Laser Destroyer blows things up with a 1/3 chance, and as a Hull point is caused each time, that is 3HP of dakage blowing up most units. That leaves the Weapon limited to rewlly being only more effective against 4HP or greater vehicles. The trick is that they have AV14, which is a 30% chance to penetrate with a 33% chance of splodes. That is for every 10 hits, you blow it up, but with a 55% chance to glance or greater that is 7-8hits to destroy it. A graviton has a 5 in 6 chance of wrecks and bypasses flare shield defences on Spartans - 6 shots ends that threat. If you can get something like a Spartan whichis usually carrying a big hitty squad (because for 350pts you can get a much more powerful damage output) to force a disembark first turn with said hitty squad sat in difficult and dangerous terrain in its own desployment zone, if you can spare the elite slots, you have thrown a spanner in your opponents plans right from the off; that is usually 800+ pts nullified for the cost of 450pts. If you want to kill power armour, you donn't use Rapiers, although if you must, Quad Mortars are about the best option due to the nukber of med strength hits caused. But you're better served by something like a Pair of Plasma Legion Dreads for similar points (270). Haywire is the supreme heavy tank killer IMHO. A glaive being the ultimate, obviously, although it does suffer against non superheavies. Compare points; obviously there are other mitigating factors to those high points, but at 520 for a Falchion and 625 for a glaive, comparative points do between 7 and 9ish hull points compared to 5ish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3998750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) I would love grav cannons if they had 30 inches range. Edited April 6, 2015 by Wolf_Pack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3999444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Why does their 36" range bother you then? Raktra 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3999447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherGecko Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Might be missing a word haha. I never considered what a 3 gun battery could do to mobility in larger games. With haywire and mobility denial the gravitron cannon seems pretty tasty actually. Through it behind an aegis defense line and it would probably do not too bad. It isn't as all around as the quad mortar but then it actually has a model haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305349-rapier-battery-tactics/#findComment-3999466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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