Rapier Battery Tactics

[GreyCrow]

Is it your only source of AT? If it is, then probably not. Unless its a low points game. Even with the 48" buff its still just a single shot. If it was heavy 2 or forced re-rolling of cover saves then maybe it would be worth it. As it stands, by itself it's not enough.

 

It won't be my only AT source, considering I have a spam of S8, S7 and S6 ranged weapons, and power fists/chainfists sprinkled around for taking out the bigger armoured targets

 

It's true that one shot feels weak even if it's such a high quality shot. Had that been a quad lascannon though... :D I'll keep my list how it is and add it for larger games :)

Edited May 29, 2015 by GreyCrow

[Brofist]

If you can take a pair of then, then it's not a bad deal.

 

 

 

 

 

What's the general consensus on laser rapiers for anti tank? I've been looking for anti tank in different parts of the FOC since the terror assault allows only one heavy support.

Decent, if Immobile. With their Stealth Buff to 48" its not so much of a Problem but you'll want to give them the best LoS possible to shoot things which, conversely, means it'll be easier to shoot them.

 

Sorry, Where did rapier batteries get this, is it in tempest?

I know the vindi one was upgraded, but wasn't aware the rapiers were.

 

Conquest, actually. But its kinda contentious since its the Solar Auxilia Las Destroyer Rapier Battery in the book itself but in the Reference Sheets that came with the Spec Ed, the Legion ones are also 48"

 

Are we sure it's not a mis print? I only ask because when I use them, it will be contested!

 

I think I'm actually the person who brought this up a few months ago in another thread. Unless we get a response from FW your guess is as good as mine.

 

It can go either way really. FW has stealth buffed rapiers across several books so there is precedence... but we don't know for sure. I'd say tell your opponent ahead of time. It's going to make them better, but it's still not enough to make that big a difference really. Heavy 1 is the main problem.

[Theredknight]

If you can take a pair of then, then it's not a bad deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the general consensus on laser rapiers for anti tank? I've been looking for anti tank in different parts of the FOC since the terror assault allows only one heavy support.

Decent, if Immobile. With their Stealth Buff to 48" its not so much of a Problem but you'll want to give them the best LoS possible to shoot things which, conversely, means it'll be easier to shoot them.

Sorry, Where did rapier batteries get this, is it in tempest?

I know the vindi one was upgraded, but wasn't aware the rapiers were.

Conquest, actually. But its kinda contentious since its the Solar Auxilia Las Destroyer Rapier Battery in the book itself but in the Reference Sheets that came with the Spec Ed, the Legion ones are also 48"

Are we sure it's not a mis print? I only ask because when I use them, it will be contested!

I think I'm actually the person who brought this up a few months ago in another thread. Unless we get a response from FW your guess is as good as mine.

 

It can go either way really. FW has stealth buffed rapiers across several books so there is precedence... but we don't know for sure. I'd say tell your opponent ahead of time. It's going to make them better, but it's still not enough to make that big a difference really. Heavy 1 is the main problem.

Hmm, I think most people wouldn't be happy with a maybe, black and white or close to it tends to be accepted.

They stealthed quad mortars, so now they are pretty hard.

The extra range on the rapier helps, I found that tanks etc can stay out of range/ site with a short 36" range.

The extra gives it that little bit more reach to hit. In battery of 3, they are durable, and can pose a threat to armour if left unchecked.

In the reference sheets in conquest, the solar auxilia ones are listed as 48", do we then assume it's likely legion batteries will be similar? They use the same weaponry after all, why would the legion ones be essentially more rubbish?

[Slips]

Weird thing is, the Space Marine Laser Destroyer Array on the Book IV reference Sheets is still listed as 36" vs the Solar Auxilias 48"

[Theredknight]

Yeah that's why I'm suspicious of any buffs.

Unless there is one in tempest. A friend of mind has it and it's unclear.

Not sure why solars would actually be different to legion really. Considering the space marines 'have the best of everything' right?

[GreyCrow]

I'll Check out crusade army list tomorrow and Tell you guys if it's 36 or 48" there :)

[Slips]

Yeah that's why I'm suspicious of any buffs.

Unless there is one in tempest. A friend of mind has it and it's unclear.

Not sure why solars would actually be different to legion really. Considering the space marines 'have the best of everything' right?

Let me check my copy. Ill edit this post afterwards.

[GreyCrow]

Crusade Army list does show the Laser Destroyer Array at 36", interesting. Guess there is no reason not to take Thudd guns anymore :p

[Slips]

Checked Tempest. Made no mention of Las Destroyers being 48 or anything on them for that matter so ehhh 

[m0nolith]

Im resurrecting this thread because I was going to make one anyways. 

Im trying to decide weather to buy 3 rapiers or make a 10 man Heavy Support squad armed with lascannons or Missile Launchers.

The goal is to make it usable in both 30k and as a way to get around that pesky Relic rule in 40k.

 

How do you find laser rapiers in the current meta?

[Gorgoff]

Im resurrecting this thread because I was going to make one anyways.

Im trying to decide weather to buy 3 rapiers or make a 10 man Heavy Support squad armed with lascannons or Missile Launchers.

The goal is to make it usable in both 30k and as a way to get around that pesky Relic rule in 40k.

 

How do you find laser rapiers in the current meta?

Most important question:

Which legion do you play?

[m0nolith]

 

Im resurrecting this thread because I was going to make one anyways.

Im trying to decide weather to buy 3 rapiers or make a 10 man Heavy Support squad armed with lascannons or Missile Launchers.

The goal is to make it usable in both 30k and as a way to get around that pesky Relic rule in 40k.

 

How do you find laser rapiers in the current meta?

Most important question:

Which legion do you play?

 

*looks at avatar photo, looks at Chapter Name, looks at signature banners*

 

...um, the red uns.

Edited August 21, 2017 by m0nolith

[Theredknight]

Well, this thread was a while ago, good searching!

 

Rapiers for a fellow brother of Baal?!

Unless your playing mill yourself emo list, you should be descending on flames of fury.

 

That said, rapiers haven't changed really, short range, 1 shot.

Are you..uh..thinking of getting 10 assault cannons and hosing the hell out of the enemy from a dreadclaw?

Not.. that Iv ever thought how cool that would be to do..

[m0nolith]

Well, this thread was a while ago, good searching!

Rapiers for a fellow brother of Baal?!

Unless your playing mill yourself emo list, you should be descending on flames of fury.

That said, rapiers haven't changed really, short range, 1 shot.

Are you..uh..thinking of getting 10 assault cannons and hosing the hell out of the enemy from a dreadclaw?

Not.. that Iv ever thought how cool that would be to do..

Nah. I'm looking to expand my AT firepower, but here's the kicker, I want to be able to use them in 40k as well without the whole pesky Relic rule. Basically, 2 of these will let me include 2 Relic Leviathans in a 40k 8th ed list, while still being viable as a 30k unit.

It's basically between Missile devastators and 3 Rapiers, and so far I'm leaning towards Rapiers.

And when it comes to theme, I'd say they're pretty thematic for BA. We don't always drop down from the skies :D

 

There was the siege of Terra after all, not to mention that we have the Day of Sorrows RoW ;)

Edited August 22, 2017 by m0nolith

[Withershadow]

A most appropriate name for that Rite, sadly.

 

Anyway, everyone loves Deimos Laser Destroyers, and this gives you the same damage output on a more durable frame. The FAQ let non blast and template ordnance weapons be fired as snap shots, so you're not even losing that much if you need to move (a moving Deimos gets one shot at BS4 (66%), the rapiers get three shots at BS1 (43% to hit once).

[m0nolith]

A most appropriate name for that Rite, sadly.

Anyway, everyone loves Deimos Laser Destroyers, and this gives you the same damage output on a more durable frame. The FAQ let non blast and template ordnance weapons be fired as snap shots, so you're not even losing that much if you need to move (a moving Deimos gets one shot at BS4 (66%), the rapiers get three shots at BS1 (43% to hit once).

Without a doubt the Deimos is better one to one, but the Rapiers 55 point cost is pretty great, making an investment of 3 pretty negligible.

Also, keep in mind I'm looking for something that's usable in 40k as well that's in the HS slot that will let me balance out my other "relic" weapons, making things like Leviathans (plural hehehe)

playable.

[Withershadow]

You misunderstood my post.  I was giving pros in favor of the laser destroyers.  I was just saying everyone loves Deimos, and the Rapiers have the same damage output when standing still, and only slightly reduced average damage when moving (with a much higher max damage possible).  To reiterate the advantages:

 

1. Rapiers are more durable against shooting.

2. Rapiers are more capable in close combat (as in don't instantly evaporate).

3. Rapiers are in a less valuable FOC slot.

 

All that makes the slight point increase worth it, at least in my opinion.  As an Alpha Legionnaire, who can grant those rapiers tank hunter or infiltrate, the comparison is even more positive for the Rapier.

[Arminius_Warbringer]

I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread but I was wondering if infiltrating 3 grav rapiers paired with either a contemptor armed with las cannons and chainfist or a Deredeo with Las Cannons makes for an effective anti-Spartan option? I will also have melta bombs and other odds and ends options for redundancy, and to use in a pinch, if this proves unable to do the trick. I have other stuff to use in the future(the army is not fully completed and painted) but I am planning a list for a tournament in a few weeks and I should have those painted in the next week.

 

I know one army is sure to have a Spartan because it is a terminator heavy DG army. I also have las cannon rapiers but thought the grav cannons might be better against a spartan. I am new to HH so I'm not really sure if this is practical or capable enough to thwart a DG Spartan. I would hate to show up to a gun fight toting a pocket knife. Also, which rapier configuration is best against DG termies? I know that termies are the core of my opponents army and hope to turn the rapiers on them after the Spartan is eliminated.

[Brofist]

In summary, you've got two problems you need to deal with: a spartan and a bunch of angry dudes inside of it.

 

Given that you play Raven Guard, grav rapiers aren't a bad option since you can infiltrate them into a good firing position. My advice would be not to concentrate your forces around the rapiers, so they don't turn into a focal point for the Spartan to drive towards. If you can infiltrate a contemptor, I'd suggest taking one with dual grav fists instead. That would basially gurantee a poped spartain turn 1. Your next problem are the contents of the spartan. Unfortaintly the rapiers aren't going to do much against them as they have no high volume AP2 option. The contemptor can be a good speedbump, especially if he doesn't take any chain fists, but will likely go down in 1-2 turns of combat. A Deredeo's Lascannons aren't a very good choice against a Spartan, but if you have one laying around you could give it the plasma option to give you some punch against the terminators. So in the perfect situation you have first turn, inflitrate 24" away from the spartan with your contemptor and 36" with your rapiers- throw 5 haywire shots at it and force a dangerous terrain check. The spartan wrecks and you put a large AP2 blast template onto the terminators inside when the are forced to disembark.

 

I think your problem will be if he has multiple terminator units, which you say he does. That lone Deredeo won't be enough to hurt them. As a RG player you could infiltrate some combi plasma seekers or infiltrate some combi plasma sniper vets to even it up. Just don't go too crazy with the vets as the plasma/sniper/infiltrate combo makes it one of most powerful units in the game right now.

[Brother Captain Spud]

Whats the minimum number of rapiers people find useful? Thinking of adding some quad mortar action to my fists and unsure if its woth only getting one or if i need to get 2 or 3 to make it worthwhile.

[Gorgoff]

Whats the minimum number of rapiers people find useful? Thinking of adding some quad mortar action to my fists and unsure if its woth only getting one or if i need to get 2 or 3 to make it worthwhile.

I played against Tyranids in 7th a while ago and my Thudd Gun managed to kill a whole unit of Gaunts every turn. So yeah one is a good start.

[Brother Captain Spud]

Sweet. I just ordered my first and a medusa. Planning to have a battery of 3 for each. Hopefully the heavy fire suppprt firing over a few blobs of advancing breachers and terminators will clean up.

[Gorgoff]

Sweet. I just ordered my first and a medusa. Planning to have a battery of 3 for each. Hopefully the heavy fire suppprt firing over a few blobs of advancing breachers and terminators will clean up.

Sounds good to me.

[disease]

Rapier thudd batteries using interceptor (not blasts~) - anyone else thing this is ridiculously powerful?   I mean, kills leviathans

[Gorgoff]

Rapier thudd batteries using interceptor (not blasts~) - anyone else thing this is ridiculously powerful? I mean, kills leviathans

Since Thudd Guns Squads are not entirely made of models with the infantry type and cannot joined by Apothecarii with Augury Scanners I wonder how you wan't to pull that of?

Join a Forge Lord in there?

And besides, the Leviathan could just stay in that Drop Pod and shoot anyway or come down somewhere else.