Night Lords Precognitive Abilities

[VikingWarband]

Straight to the question:

Are the Night Lords' (albeit, latent?) precognitive abilities Warp-borne (or at least Warp-related) or are the abilities something completely different and as of yet, unknown?

I've tried to piece together the nature of this ability through all of the forums and wiki's out there, but can't nail down anything that would give me an even limited sense of confidence.

Short of asking A D-B himself, I hoped someone out there might point me in the right direction.

As far as I know, only the Night Haunter, Talos and Decimus have ever actualized the ability and while reading all of the NL novels, I never got the impression that their precog dreams were anything like a psyker's distinctly warp-borne fortune-telling. Also, if memory serves, in Soul Hunter, Talos' prophecies are said to be far more powerful/reliable than the Black Legion sorcerer's.

So the question is really, where does this ability come from and what are the rules around it.

p.s. - Assuming the precog abilities are NOT related to the Warp, I have a follow up question, but I think only A D-B himself could answer it

Much thanks in advance to whomever should read/reply

Cheers!

[Kaldoth]

Well, it seems to me you've asked an answer-less question. I've also read quite a few of the Night Lords novels. They've always been my favorite traitor legion. Unfortunately, though, I don't think the pre-cognitive abilities have ever been cannonically explained.  However, if I had to take a well educated guess, I'd have to say they are likely passed down genetically from Konrad.  Kurze was always haunted with visions of the future. Hell, he predicted his own death.  It wouldn't surprise me if some of his marines shared this ability of his, much like the Space Wolves have fangs and fur, the Thousand Sons had a higher amount of psykers, or the Salamanders all inherit black skin and red eyes.  Something within the Night Lords' geneseed is probably the cause, I'd wager ;)

Cheers,

-Kal

[VikingWarband]

Well, it seems to me you've asked an answer-less question. I've also read quite a few of the Night Lords novels. They've always been my favorite traitor legion. Unfortunately, though, I don't think the pre-cognitive abilities have ever been cannonically explained. However, if I had to take a well educated guess, I'd have to say they are likely passed down genetically from Konrad. Kurze was always haunted with visions of the future. Hell, he predicted his own death. It wouldn't surprise me if some of his marines shared this ability of his, much like the Space Wolves have fangs and fur, the Thousand Sons had a higher amount of psykers, or the Salamanders all inherit black skin and red eyes. Something within the Night Lords' geneseed is probably the cause, I'd wager

Cheers,

-Kal

Firstly, thanks for the reply.

Yes, the ability is very likely to be a genetic trait. Variel alludes to as much in Void Stalker when he tells Talos about how his progenoid glands are actually killing him. The premise is further supported by the fact that Decimus possesses the ability himself (assuming that Talos' gene-seed was in fact used to create Decimus).

I'm just wondering if anyone has read anything or knows of a deeper discussion of the ability's nature (i.e. whether it is subject to the influence of the Warp or if it is completely separate from and "untainted" by the Warp.)

For example, from my readings, I've understood the Eldar's psychic abilities to be the same as those possessed by human psyker's, just far, far more powerful and controlled. But, at the end of the day, they're still psychic powers, meaning the ability is based in the power of the Warp.

I'm trying to figure out if the Night Lords' abilities are like those of the Eldar (and psykers) or if the ability is something completely different and, therefore, subject to different rules.

[helterskelter]

Sevatar was a psyker before implantation, that was pre exposure, pre geneseed, but of a precognitive nature.

Cyrion was some kind of soul vampire, primarily warp related.

I think they're largely down to what the writer needs the abilities to be with a very slight predisposition towards the precognitive.

[DarKnight]

It seems with Astartes period the geneseed implantation unlocks the latent psychic abilities of the prospective Marine, the way it's explained in the Night Lords Trilogy and in A Thousand Sons makes it seem so.

[VikingWarband]

It seems with Astartes period the geneseed implantation unlocks the latent psychic abilities of the prospective Marine, the way it's explained in the Night Lords Trilogy and in A Thousand Sons makes it seem so.

Thanks for the reply!

 

Yes, I've seen the geneseed correlation to latent Astartes abilities/traits. I also understood that the Thousands Sons abilities were completely Warp related. I just haven't seen whether the NL Prophets used the Warp (even unconsciously) to "see the future". Granted, Only Curze, Talos and Decimus have been "Prophets" of the legion. 

 

There was a scene in the trilogy where Abaddon is essentially recruiting Talos because he knows that Talos' abilities (although not 100% accurate) are still much more reliable than the premonitions of the BL sorcs, one of which is a former NL (Ruven). I never got the impression that Ruven's abilities were geneseed related because he's described as a full-on Sorcerer (aka psyker), probably like Sevatar was (but he supressed his abilities, presumably to avoid the taint of the Warp).

[Rain]

If I remember correctly, the Night Lords Index Astartes mentions that Night Lords sorcerers often have uncontrollable precognitions of the worst possible future outcomes, much as Kurze did. This implies that it is indeed a warp based psychic ability just like any other, it's just involuntary. Also note that Talos's visions were not always true, just as in the IA he tended to forsee the worst case scenario which didn't always come to pass.

 

So, while Talos is certainly not a sorcerer, he probably still has latent psychic ability inherited through his geneseed, it's just that unlike "normal" psychic powers, he has no semblance of control over what or when his visions manifest.

 

My NL army actually had a sorcerer whose fluff (made up by me, so non canon) was that he foresaw his own death in what he believed was the latter days of the Heresy, but since he survived that, he realized that it must be some later time, though he has no idea when, so he ironically goes on all of these horribly dangerous quests to gather psychic artifacts to refine his abilities so that he can learn more precisely when he will die so that he can avoid it.

[VikingWarband]

If I remember correctly, the Night Lords Index Astartes mentions that Night Lords sorcerers often have uncontrollable precognitions of the worst possible future outcomes, much as Kurze did. This implies that it is indeed a warp based psychic ability just like any other, it's just involuntary. Also note that Talos's visions were not always true, just as in the IA he tended to forsee the worst case scenario which didn't always come to pass.

 

So, while Talos is certainly not a sorcerer, he probably still has latent psychic ability inherited through his geneseed, it's just that unlike "normal" psychic powers, he has no semblance of control over what or when his visions manifest.

 

Those are all good points.

 

A part of me is hoping that the ability is something not-of-the-Warp because I like the idea of a psychic-like ability that is not at the mercy of the corruption of the Immaterium.

 

For a legion that has (for the most part) avoided the lure of Chaos, it would be disheartening to find out that despite their "purist" philosophies, their very genetic code holds them closer to the Warp than they realize.

 

As far as I know, it is still canon that the NL geneseed is relatively pure, so wouldn't a genetically induced warp "ability" somewhat refute that?

[Conn Eremon]

No, so long as they still have fully functioning organs and progenoid production, they are "pure."

 

Far as I am concerned, the precognitive capabilities of Kurze are of the Warp, just as Sanguinius' precognition was, and that trait is genetically inheritable.

[VikingWarband]

No, so long as they still have fully functioning organs and progenoid production, they are "pure."

 

Far as I am concerned, the precognitive capabilities of Kurze are of the Warp, just as Sanguinius' precognition was, and that trait is genetically inheritable.

Ah, so that's the definition of "pure". Thanks.

 

I also just stumbled across a quote by Decimus in the prologue of Void Stalker where he specifically refers to his ability as "soul-sight".

 

So that settles that, I guess. 

 

Thanks everyone!