Imperial Fists 1000pts fought in a Space Hulk

[Lachdannan]

Hi there,

 

I'm trying to put together a list for my next narrative game. You can find the battle reports of my last 4 games here if interested.

 

Essentially my forces are hunting down rogue elements of Imperial Fists who have turned traitor, and I need to destroy a unit of Traitor Ultramarines (no idea what unit they are) before they escape the complex. For all my games thus far, I have taken Sigismund in all of them, though I am having trouble fitting him in this one. Also, this game is going to be played using the tiles from my Space Hulk set (movement as normal), so it is going to be very confined (single lanes mostly).

 

So here is the first list I kind of came up with, and I was looking for any guidance on the matter. Due to the scenario, I get Rogal Dorn for free, and then must add 1000pts to it. So here is what I came up with.

 

Rogal Dorn "free"

 

6 Legion Terminators

6 Thunder Hammers

6 Storm Shields

 

Primaris Medicae

Terminator Armour

Power Fist

Storm Shield

 

5 Legion Terminators (Cataphractii)

5 Storm Shields

3 Thunder Hammers

1 Power Sword

1 Power Maul

 

10 Veteran Tactical Marines

Power Fist

2 Heavy Bolters with suspensor webs

Sniper special rule

 

I am 5 points over but that should be okay. Am I on the right track or walking into disaster? Rogal Dorn was not as impressive as I thought, and to be honest I would rather have Sigismund, since he at least goes at initiative.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Cheers!

[Slips]

Considering how confined the board will be, I'd almost give your terminator squads and Tac Vets all Heavy Flamers (not too sure how HF interact with Sniper but its potentially devastating) especially since they all gain Shred for free due to ZM.

 

Dorn isn't really meant to be a Combat Beast Primarch. He's mostly an army buffer and he does that pretty well. Your whole army being effectively LD10 while he's around, granting a free pseudo Pride of the Legion, his unit gaining FC and Crusader and adding +D3 (army wide) to combat resolution is pretty awesome.

 

Sure, his Cover buff wont matter for this mission in particular (or it might, who knows). But you're getting him for free so no use complaining.

 

Him being effectively immune to Fleshbane and/or Poisoned 2+ (or anything wounding him on better than 3+) is pretty darn good, not to mention his 2+/4++

 

Sure, if using sundering blow he only has 2 base attacks (rampage does help combat this), hes still swinging at S8 (ID'ing most marines) but with ID to boot at Ap2 and Shred. Bye Bye anything without Eternal Warrior. Fail one save and they're gone. Oh and he can get buffed to T7 if using Stone Gauntlet RoW and is surrounded by Shield Equipped units. Tasty. You're also giving him FNP if you glue your Medicae to him meaning he is nigh invulnerable (T6 [7 with RoW], EW, IWND, FNP, 2+/4++)

 

His shooting is rather Meh (pretty common across most Primarchs) but, if you get to fire 5 Salvo shots with Rending, it can do its fair share.

 

Beyond that, the 1k points limit is whats really killing you and your medicae being your only HQ means that its (unless you've house ruled) not a valid selection due to Support Officer.

 

I'd almost feel like a 2nd Tac Vet squad or something more mobile would be better than Cataphractii Terminators in this situation.

 

Hell, Combi-Flamer Seekers would be devastating. Flame a juicy target then subject anything else to rapid-fire Tempest Bolts that gain Shred due to ZM.

Potentially pricier than your terminators though.

 

Edit; almost forgot: with Dorn around and at this points level, Siggy isn't worth taking, tbh. A vigilator might be a better choice.

[Lachdannan]

I thought it would be a bit tight with both of them there, especially at this low points limit. Dorn is a nice buff as you have pointed out, its just that I was a little disappointed at him being stuck at initiative 1 attacks. Ah well, you have made some good points on his onuses though.

 

Your quite right, that I'm putting the Primus Medicae with Dorn and the 6 man Terminator squad as well. There is actually another special rule in this game, where the traitor Fists don't want to shoot Dorn, so they have to take either a leadership test or reroll hit rolls against him. Was thinking I could take advantage of that and just put him to the fore and run at him.

 

As for my list, the Terminators and Veterans seem okay, though you quite rightly mention the cataphractii might be better replaced. I did have a few misgivings using them (especially as i didn't know they couldn't run). I mainly took them as they are already painted and ready to go. Would another Veteran squad be appropriate?

 

My other thoughts were a tactical support squad with plasma or melta guns, or even a Moritat with double plasma pistols. For this game, the complex is underground, so its not going by the ZM rules, so no free shreds (at this stage).

 

Some more details have come to light about the scenario. Apparently my forces are split up coming from random access points, so my forces will be split before they start (kinda reminds me of assault on Horus's flagship....). So whatever forces I do take, the squads will be on their own and have to fight to meet up later.

 

Thanks very much for the input. Your insights are always appreciated! Cheers!

[Slips]

Id go for a Moritat with double Serpentas or even Bolt Pistols (Imperial Fists, after all) over Plasma since they gets hot on 1s and 2s after the Faq.

 

The way you'll be running Dorn in this game means that you'd be better of with your Largest, Priciest squad being his bodyguard. 

 

No shred, oh well.  Still, the narrowness of the SH Tiles means that flamers still might be a better Idea since you'll have probably the easiest time stacking Hits/Wounds.

 

++++

 

Due to how your forces will be popping up, you do indeed want units that can operate on their own without much backup. Terminators and Vets fit the bill, in this scenario but so do Seekers. Since every one of them can take Combi-Weapons and they all have Specialist ammunition, they can be appropriately tooled up to deal with most situations they might come into contact with.

 

Another would be, if your smart with movement, Templar Brethren. Their 2+ Save helps keep them alive though their +/- non-existent shooting does keep them down and they can mow down anything short of massed 2+ saves.

 

Phalanx Warders and/or Breachers are also worthy of consideration since they can re-roll failed armor saves and have an invulnerable. They are also more flexible than Tac Squads with their gear and their defensive grenades could make or break a combat/shooting they would be subjected to.

 

You could also take a Contemptor or Two. Give them 2 Fists with Grav/Flamer/Plasma and theyre pretty solid. You could also give them a Fist with Flamer/Grav and Kheres. A Plasma Cannon would also be worth consideration due to how tight corridors will be and how  blasts that scatter into walls detonate at that point (they cant scatter outside the walls after all) so you're almost always guaranteed a hit unless it scatters horribly up or down the hallway.

 

Your Cataphractii Squad being 255, a Contemptor with Kheres and Grav Fist is 205 meaning you'd have 45 points left over to spend. With the remaining points, you could give your Tac Vets Squadwide Melta Bombs and a Vexilla and maybe even a hidden Power Weapon getting the list to 1k flush. And if you ever have problems with compulsory troops, with Dorn and the list being 1k you could take Pride of the Legion for Terminators and Vets to be troops.

[Kriegriss]

just a side question I bow eternally to slips list building and have no further points on that what I was wondering was when u make Cataphractii termies with stoem shields what do you use for the shields I am torn between the Forgeworld Black Templar shields or are the Phalanx  warder shields big enough I have some Black Templar shields but didn't want to order the warder set until I could see a scale comparison between the termies and the shields sorry if this is off topic.

[Slips]

I have both and the Black Templar Shield are pretty much terminator height and width whereas the Phalanx warder shields are PA Height and width. Not much of a difference just that the BT shield is larger.

 

And advantage the Warder shields have is that the hands/arms arent part of the actual shield; you have to glue them on separately.

[Lachdannan]

just a side question I bow eternally to slips list building and have no further points on that what I was wondering was when u make Cataphractii termies with stoem shields what do you use for the shields I am torn between the Forgeworld Black Templar shields or are the Phalanx  warder shields big enough I have some Black Templar shields but didn't want to order the warder set until I could see a scale comparison between the termies and the shields sorry if this is off topic.

 

Not at all, a valid question. I modelled my Cataphractii after what I imagined Dorn's Huscarl's would be like. Here is a pic.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb383/lachdan/Picture-472.jpg

 

I gave them all Lysander's shield, as it just felt right, that and I gave them their own names to put on the shield. I do like the unit, as I put a lot of effort into painting an modelling it. I mainly got the shields off ebay bits places. Hope that helps!

 

Id go for a Moritat with double Serpentas or even Bolt Pistols (Imperial Fists, after all) over Plasma since they gets hot on 1s and 2s after the Faq.

 

The way you'll be running Dorn in this game means that you'd be better of with your Largest, Priciest squad being his bodyguard. 

 

No shred, oh well.  Still, the narrowness of the SH Tiles means that flamers still might be a better Idea since you'll have probably the easiest time stacking Hits/Wounds.

 

++++

 

Due to how your forces will be popping up, you do indeed want units that can operate on their own without much backup. Terminators and Vets fit the bill, in this scenario but so do Seekers. Since every one of them can take Combi-Weapons and they all have Specialist ammunition, they can be appropriately tooled up to deal with most situations they might come into contact with.

 

Another would be, if your smart with movement, Templar Brethren. Their 2+ Save helps keep them alive though their +/- non-existent shooting does keep them down and they can mow down anything short of massed 2+ saves.

 

Phalanx Warders and/or Breachers are also worthy of consideration since they can re-roll failed armor saves and have an invulnerable. They are also more flexible than Tac Squads with their gear and their defensive grenades could make or break a combat/shooting they would be subjected to.

 

You could also take a Contemptor or Two. Give them 2 Fists with Grav/Flamer/Plasma and theyre pretty solid. You could also give them a Fist with Flamer/Grav and Kheres. A Plasma Cannon would also be worth consideration due to how tight corridors will be and how  blasts that scatter into walls detonate at that point (they cant scatter outside the walls after all) so you're almost always guaranteed a hit unless it scatters horribly up or down the hallway.

 

Your Cataphractii Squad being 255, a Contemptor with Kheres and Grav Fist is 205 meaning you'd have 45 points left over to spend. With the remaining points, you could give your Tac Vets Squadwide Melta Bombs and a Vexilla and maybe even a hidden Power Weapon getting the list to 1k flush. And if you ever have problems with compulsory troops, with Dorn and the list being 1k you could take Pride of the Legion for Terminators and Vets to be troops.

Some excellent advice as always. There has been some further talk regarding the rules for the 'Space Hulk' game (and i'll endeavour to get a post up here somewhere about it as I like some more ideas on it), the main point is that it will be infantry only, no walkers or vehicles. Regrettably that knocks the Contemptor out.

 

I'm keen on my existing army (veterans and Terminators and Primus Medicae), though I feel I need to swap out the Cataphractii, as they may very well be too slow. I'm very tempted to include the Templar Brethren, but I await the parts from Forge World, and they might take too long to paint/model up. The Phalanx Warders could be an idea, since I have a unit of them modeled up. If I did go that way, how many Power Axes do you think I should run with?

 

This is the unit btw.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb383/lachdan/Picture-390.jpg

 

Thanks very much for the ideas and advice.

[Slips]

No Dreadnoughts? Damn.

 

Well, best unit then to replace your Cataphractii Squad would be 10 Seekers with 10 Combi Weapons (Flamer or Plasma preferably).

 

If you are going to run with ZM Shred, then Rapid Firing Tempest Bolts into your Enemy (20 3" Blasts. yeah, they're S3 but with Shred...) and watch them cry as they drown in saves.

Flamers if you know you'll run shred, plasma for general punch whether or not you run shred.

 

After having had a Hard Time in 2 ZM games today because the list I brought was very CC focused (it was painful, to say the least), Strong Mid-Range Shooting with some CC punch would be preferable to a pure CC unit.

 

That Said, Templars are still a valid option due to their 2+ Save and Ap2 Shooting being pretty rare and pricey to the point where you could plan around it.

 

Destroyers with 2 ML are pretty good in ZM, especially with Shred since the Rad Missiles are Ap3 Fleshbane. Couple that with Shred and anything barring 2+ Saves will have a hard time. Its especially useful if you ever come across High Toughness Mechanicum Beasties. Just be VERY mindful of the Missile Launcher Placement. I made a few mistakes with them and it was painful. 

 

I ran Phalanx Warders too. 10 men, 2 Thunderhammers, 4 Axes (one on the Sarge). The lack of shooting and my enemies Grav Cannons + Eating 40 Volkite Shots means that they didnt get to do much especially since they were heading down a long, straight hallway. I'd say max 2 Axes + Sarge weapon in a 10 man squad. If you feel confident about your movement and that they'll get into CC then 1-2 more weapons could be ok. Maybe even take Plasma Guns as the 1/5 special weapon for more shooty punch. Beware any Ap3 Weapons. That 6++ is barely anything. Strongly consider an apothecary. I didn't have one and I felt it.

 

Tac Vets with 2 Heavy Bolters (10 men) and Sniper are deadly. Didn't run them but always wounding on 4+ unless you're getting better + Ignoring armor saves on 6's to wound is magical. With BS5 due to IF they are solid.

 

My Next 1.5k ZM list is likely to look like: (Using the Attacker FoC. Compulsories are HQ and Elites. No need for Troops)

 

Polux (or other equivalent HQ)

 

10 Destroyers, 2ML, Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, 3x Phosphex Bombs (350, yeesh)

10 Veteran Tactical Squad, 2HB, Melta Bombs, Vexilla (275)

10 Templar Brethren, Sol Glove, Vexilla, 5 Combat Shields (345)

10 Seekers, 10 Combi-Weapons, Artificer Armor, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon (365)

 

VERY Elite list; no squad is cheaper than 250 points. Very strong shooting with the Seekers and Tac Vets. Decent CC with the Templars and Polux's S10 Pfist and Character/Specials/MC hunters in the Destroyers. +/- everything but the destroyers have a means to deal with an AV Value though it is in CC and not shooting (mostly). The big weakness is its 3+ armor with pretty much no alternate save so AP3 anything will hurt. If you wanted to you could cut down on the Seekers and Templars and a few upgrades here and there and try to get 1-2 Apothecaries in for FNP. Maybe even cut one of the Squads out like the Destroyers, bring in 2 Apothecaries at 120 and bring in a Contemptor at ~200 something and have some points left to sprinkle around.

 

41 Bodies at 1.5k is rather low but it brings enough punch to deal with most things. Though Contemptors could pose a problem.

 

This is something you could use as inspiration for what you're bringing. Terminators are by no means a bad choice especially with a 3++ But remember, if you aren't smart about placement and movement in ZM, it can go from bad to horrible VERY quickly with how confined it is.

[Caillum]

If you're looking at this from a fluff perspective, you are on the hunt. The campaign has been Alexis Polux (opponent) vs Sigismund (you), so you should include the champion himself! :) He is also a very killy character, which fits the "hunt & execute" theme of the mission.

 

Like Slipstreams mentioned, Stone Gauntlet is amazing! You have Breacher models, which you can use as Phalanx Warders, Sigismund joining them. With careful model placement, even he will be Toughness 5 from shooting with majority Toughness rules! :)

 

Your 2nd unit can be the Terminators, with Dorn in that unit (Dorn makes Legion Terminators and Phalanx Warders both Troops choices after all!), again at Toughness 5.

 

After that, fill the gaps you think you need, or just use more models you have painted up!

[Lachdannan]

Hmmm both excellent options. I must say I did contemplate Dorn and Sigismund working together, but thought it would be incredibly model light if I did so. Flip side being of course that I don't need to capture or hold any objectives, and kill kill kill, so perhaps that doesn't matter.

 

I do like the idea of the Seekers, and the Warders Slipstreams. I do really want to try the Templar Brethren out, but that will take too long to get painted up.

 

I was roughly thinking of the Veteran Tactical's with Sigismund charging up along with Dorn, Primus Medicae and Terminators rocking up as well. Can't remember if I can allocate an apothecary with the Veteran Tactical's or not.

 

Otherwise I was thinking Dorn, Primus Medicae and Terminators along with Phalanx Warder's and the Veteran tactical Squad. This gives three units to the other two. However, Caillum is right, fluff wise, especially considering its a head hunt, and I have taken Sigismund in every game so far, does make taking him very tempting. That and he can pretty much cut through most things, barring a Primarch.

 

So many options.

 

Still thanks for the advice, a lot of things to ponder and consider, especially in future games as well!

 

Cheers!