Leviathan FOC

[deekin]

Hey, got a few queries about the special FOCs and legion super heavies in general. Firstly what version of super heavies do we use regarding their legion listings still with structure points, what do we use to have them up to date with the HP system and by extension if we have to use the IA entries, are we able to use legion vehicle upgrades?

Now on the FOCs, i don't really understand the legality of these lists and if i could say use them in tournaments and generally. Also, are you able to take multiple allied detachment as part of the leviathan FOC and can you take a RoW with any of the special FOCs? Thanks

 

I've got the books on me so you can give me a page number if you like.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The standard rate for exchanging SP for HP is SP x3. This is updated in the Red books and later campaign books.

 

As for upgrades, no. Unless adding SM crew for SH tanks, or the other upgrade I forget, only uprades are those within the other IA entry. Please see my sig for available LoW.

 

In regards to rules, IIRC, they were listed as alternative options for fun. Check with tournament runner first (as turning up with a Falchion and 2 Typhons is top of 'how to lose friends' lists for example). And no, only 1 allied detachment. This is anchored in the terrible 6th edition rueset.

[Dono1979]

The alternative FOC in the various books are used reasonably freely in normal gaming and most 30K specific events (except for Leviathan) in combination with the below game scenarios. In addition, the standard game FOCs (except for Age of Darkness) are used INSTEAD of a Rites of War, in other words you can use an alternative FOC and a Rites of War.

 

No matter which FOC you use, FW have made it clear that they are keeping the list writing method of 6th Edition which is a far superior method for 30K (imo), avoiding the game breaking combinations from Detachments and Unbound.

 

Courtesy of Garro from Heresy 30K forum:

 

Standard FoC

• Age of Darkness FoC
  -your standard basic FoC,
  -has +1HQ, +1 Elite than the 40k FoC
   
• Onslaught FoC
  -designed for tank heavy forces
  -+1 heavy support, less troops and fast attacks, 2 Lords of War, no fortifications or allies
   
• Castellan FoC
  -designed for fortification forces
  -less elites, fast attack and 4 fortification slots, one of which is compulsory 
   
• Leviathan FoC
  -primary Detachment replaces by 1-3 lord of war slots, 1 LoW is compulsory, and is not effected by the 25% rule, also gains special warlord trait
  -only extras is a single allies detachment

Zone Mortalis FoC options
for use in the Zone Mortalis expansion, attacker and defender FoCs gain access to specialist warlord tables

• standard
  -2 HQs, 2 elites, 3 troops, 2 fast attack, 1 heavy support
   
• Attacker
  +1 elite slot, 1 elite choice compulsory instead of troops choice
   
• defender
  +1 troop and heavy support slots
   

Strategic raid missions FoC

• raider FoC
  - 3HQs, 6 elites, 4 troops, 4 fast attack, 2 heavy support, LoW, allies detachment
  -restrictions on LoW options, night fighting in effect turn 1, D3+2 units gain outflank and infiltrate, seize the initiative on 4+
   
• Garrison FoC
  -3HQs, 6 troops, 2 elites, 2 fast attack, 4 heavy support, LoW, 1-3 fortifications, allies detachment
  -may move any placed objective markers by 6" before start of turn 1,
  
   

City Fight FoC
may only be used in the City Fight expansion (book4)

• Incursion FoC
  -1HQ, 3 troops, 1 fast attack, 1 elites, 1heavy support
  -1HQ, 2 troops and the heavy support are compulsory. this detachment may be taken up to three times, however only a single HQ can be a praetor
  -allies and Lord of war as well.
  -all troops gain objective secured, infantry units within 6" of a vehicle gains interceptor
  
   
• Entrenched FoC
  -1HQ, 6 troops, 2 elites, 1 fast attack, 3 heavy support, 0-3 fortifications, LoW and allies as normal
  -troops have objective secured, all infantry units gain +1 to cover saves on turn one caused by city terrain
  
   

Army Specific FoC

• Questoris Knight Crusade army FoC
  -2 HQs, 5 troops, 3 elites, 2 fast attacks, 2 heavy supports, LoW and allies, no fortifications
  -1 HQ and 1 troop complusory, may only be used by the Knights army list.

[deekin]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, really just wanting to field my thunderhawk in 3k games but don't really want to give up my RoW.

 

The standard rate for exchanging SP for HP is SP x3. This is updated in the Red books and later campaign books.

Hesh did you have a page number for the SP -> HP stuff, specifically for the thunderhawk would be fine. Thanks.

[Dono1979]

Which Rites of War are you running? Unless it is a random one which isnt springing to mind, and you arent running any other Lord of War, there isnt anything to stop you from fielding the Thunderhawk, as long as it is 750 points or less

[deekin]

Which Rites of War are you running? Unless it is a random one which isnt springing to mind, and you arent running any other Lord of War, there isnt anything to stop you from fielding the Thunderhawk, as long as it is 750 points or less

Legion ones starting at 900 points is the problem, could try running the one out of IA but wouldn't have the points to put the turbo-laser on it and it cant carry dreads etc. But if i wanted to be running a 750 point one from IA would be that permissible?

[Hesh Kadesh]

See my signature.

[deekin]

See my signature.

Ah right, thanks. One last thing, didn't conclude on the SP->HP thing. So would a legion thunderhawk have 12HP?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Normally, yes. But the Red Books have stealth erratad a lot of rules. I'd suggest picking them up.

 

In this case, the THawk drops to 9HP and costs 685pts base.

[deekin]

Normally, yes. But the Red Books have stealth erratad a lot of rules. I'd suggest picking them up.

 

In this case, the THawk drops to 9HP and costs 685pts base.

Huh, didn't even look in there, assumed it was just a compacted version with no actual changes. Shame i can't field the turbo-destructor as that's what it is modeled with. Will have to model up a thunderhawk cannon, doubt it'll be very hard as it's just a glorified battle cannon. Glad i can load it up with dreadnoughts still. Thanks

[Hesh Kadesh]

You can field the Turbo Destructor o.O. The Red Books have it as an option. That is an upgrade option. 

[deekin]

You can field the Turbo Destructor o.O. The Red Books have it as an option. That is an upgrade option. 

I know but if i took it it would put it up to 775 points thus over the 3K LoW point limit. Just so i don't have to make another thread, what would be the best upgrades to get for the thunderhawk with the 65 points to spend. I'm thinking void crafted-hull just on the principle of 'only as strong as your weakest member' but not sure on the any of the other upgrades. Do you guys think chaff launcher/armored cockpit are worthwhile?

 

P.S. wow, you could have 13 all round with 14 against blasts taking all three of the big upgrades.

[Slips]

 

You can field the Turbo Destructor o.O. The Red Books have it as an option. That is an upgrade option. 

I know but if i took it it would put it up to 775 points thus over the 3K LoW point limit. Just so i don't have to make another thread, what would be the best upgrades to get for the thunderhawk with the 65 points to spend. I'm thinking void crafted-hull just on the principle of 'only as strong as your weakest member' but not sure on the any of the other upgrades. Do you guys think chaff launcher/armored cockpit are worthwhile?

 

P.S. wow, you could have 13 all round with 14 against blasts taking all three of the big upgrades.

 

You could always go Imperial Fists, take Dorn and give him Aetos Dios* as his dedicated transport.

 

*A thunderhawk that doesn't take an FoC slot, has a 4++ vs Missiles, a Turbolaser and other gubbins all for a flat 600 points (not including the 385 you're already investing into Dorn).

[deekin]

You could always go Imperial Fists, take Dorn and give him Aetos Dios* as his dedicated transport.

 

*A thunderhawk that doesn't take an FoC slot, has a 4++ vs Missiles, a Turbolaser and other gubbins all for a flat 600 points (not including the 385 you're already investing into Dorn).

 

Yeah, that is what i was looking at but have decided to go with Iron Hands since then, pretty crazy the fists get it with all the trimmings with essentially a free primarch to boot. Any opinions on the 5 optional upgrades (Ramjet diffraction grid etc.) as i've got a 65 point budget so need to be very choosey. Thanks

[Slips]

The boost to rear AV is near mandatory, imo, especially on a LoW unit that is this expensive.

 

After that, Priority would be to Flare Shields and Ramjet Diffraction Grid. Boosting the Av up to 13 on all facings is great. Again, especially because its so expensive.

 

Chaff Launcher is debatable. If you know your opponents AA will consist of mostly Missiles, good investment. If not, dont bother. Consider that most 30k Marine AA comes in the form of Skyfire/Interceptor from Deredeos and Contemptor Mortis'; thus more shooting than missiles.

 

If you know they'll be bringing Primaris-Lightnings with Kraken Penetrators, Take the Chaff since thats S8 Ap1 Armourbane.

 

Armored Cockpit is, imo, the lowest priority upgrade.

[deekin]

It can come in at a cool 720 in that case. I had a similar feeling with the AV12 rear, even ramjet leaves it vulnerable to heavy bolters and such. Thanks again.

[Slips]

Oh, also forgot, Aetos Dios, while already being cheaper than a Thunderhawk with a Turbolaser + Gear also has a single Void Shield on it included in its price to make it even tougher.

 

Edit: it also has IWND, forgot that too.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The Aetos Dios is still against Dorns Lord of War limit. So it might be cheap, but it takes up part of Dorns allowance. And there is nothing saying it can be upgraded further either.

[deekin]

The Aetos Dios is still against Dorns Lord of War limit. So it might be cheap, but it takes up part of Dorns allowance. And there is nothing saying it can be upgraded further either.

This would actually make it somewhat balanced but I'm not sure it's the case (the LoW limit bit)

[Hesh Kadesh]

It is unclear. It is a DT, which (AFB) means it shares the same slot.

[Krikey]

The rules for Ætos Dios specifically allow it to be taken as DT for Dorn in games of 3000 points or more, even though it fills and it does not fill a LoW slot.

 

~K

[Dono1979]

As Krikey says, the rules for it specifically state that you can take it in a 3,000 points game indicating that the Thunderhawk itself does not count towards the points total of the LoW slot. The grey area is whether it is able to be upgraded or not, it says it is a Thunderhawk with the additional rules, we are inclined to allow the upgrades in our group, it seems a little crazy that a custom made Thunderhawk for a Primarch doesnt have access to some of the basic upgrades of the regular Legion version.