Slips Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 This is a tentative list; one of many that I'm working on. Of the ~3ish that I have, I like the feel of this one the best. The use of Maru Skara is very tentative seeing as I'd have to swap one of the PM's into a Legion Champion to make the list legal (the JP VSH one most likely) and that cuts down the survivability of the Palatine Blades a bit with the loss of FNP. + HQ (565pts) + Legion Centurion (165pts) [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Pheonix Spear, Power Armour, Sonic Shrieker, Refractor Field] ····Consul [Primus Medicae] Legion Centurion (195pts) [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness, Boarding Shield] ····Consul [Primus Medicae or Legion Champion if Maru Skara] Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts) [Jump Pack] ····Master of the Legion [Angel's Wrath] + Troops (950pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (445pts) [12x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox] ····Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Twin-linked Multi-melta, Two Twin-linked Lascannons] (FA Slot in Maru Skara) ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour] Legion Tactical Squad (445pts) [12x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox] ····Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Twin-linked Multi-melta, Two Twin-linked Lascannons] (FA Slot in Maru Skara) ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour] + Elites (245pts) + Palatine Blade Squad (250pts) [Jump packs, 4x Palatine Warrior, 4x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] ····Palatine Prefector [Pheonix Spear] + Fast Attack (320pts) + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (375pts) [2x Multi-Melta, Melta Bombs, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters] ····Sky Hunter Sergeant [Phoenix Power Spear] + Heavy Support (420pts) + Legion Fire Raptor Gunship (210pts) [Reaper Autocannon battery] Legion Fire Raptor Gunship (210pts) [Reaper Autocannon battery] Total: 2500 on the nose. Hopefully, even with armored Ceramite, I have enough S8 Ap1 (5 TL Shots all told) coupled with 4 TLLC shot to be able to deal with Armor. My main problem with EC is that their showpiece Legion Units are SOOOOO points dense that its really hard to work with them and fit them in a list. If Deredeos / Mortis are present the Jetbikes should be sufficient to deal with them before the flyers start popping in, hopefully. That or my flyers just come in outside of their firing arcs/range if possible. I also feel that Angels Wrath is better in the long run especially for the Palatine Blades since they gain Hit & Run which helps maximize the use of the Phoenix Spears Ap2 at initiative. Besides that, the reason I'm doing EC next (unless TS/BA/WS are released in that time frame) is that my IF force/collection is pretty much complete. All it needs is an official Big Bro Siggy, Papa Dorn and Showpiece LoW (100% a Glaive). Also because NL/IW/RG/Mech are taken in the area and W_P just decided on DG. Of the other Legions, SoH, WB hold 0 Interest for me and WE would, with my mindset, end up pretty similar to my Fists as would Sallies. AL are AL and if I wanted to do devastating Alpha Strikes I would go RG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Decided to do a few more takes: Maru Skara: +++ EC (2500pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++ + HQ (400pts) + Legion Centurion (195pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness] ····Consul [Legion Champion] Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts) [Jump Pack] ····Master of the Legion [The Maru Skara] + Troops (590pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (295pts) [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon] Legion Tactical Squad (295pts) [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon] + Elites (600pts) + Apothecarion Detachment (140pts) ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword] ····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword] Palatine Blade Squad (460pts) [Jump packs, 9x Palatine Warrior, 9x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] ····Palatine Prefector [Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear] + Fast Attack (260pts) + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (260pts) [2x Multi-Melta, 6x Space Marine Sky Hunters] + Heavy Support (650pts) + Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher] Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher] Legion Fire Raptor Gunship (210pts) [Reaper Autocannon battery] + Legion + Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children] All-in Super-Elite Angels Wrath: +++ EC Angels Wrath - Hard (2500pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++ + HQ (530pts) + Legion Centurion (130pts) [Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon] ····Consul [Primus Medicae] Legion Centurion (195pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness] ····Consul [Primus Medicae] Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts) [Jump Pack] ····Master of the Legion [Angel's Wrath] + Troops (790pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (395pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] ····Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Four Hellfire Missiles, Twin-linked Multi-melta] Legion Tactical Squad (395pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] ····Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Four Hellfire Missiles, Twin-linked Multi-melta] + Elites (855pts) + Palatine Blade Squad (415pts) [Jump packs, 9x Palatine Warrior, 5x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] ····Palatine Prefector [Pheonix Spear] Pheonix Terminator Squad (440pts) [8x Pheonix Terminators, Sonic Shriekers] + Heavy Support (325pts) + Legion Caestus Assault Ram (325pts) [Auxiliary Drive, Frag Assault Launchers] + Legion + Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children] Pinning for Days + Open Blade Maru Skara: +++ EC - Pinning for Days (2430pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2430pts) ++ + HQ (400pts) + Legion Centurion (195pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness] ····Consul [Legion Champion] Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts) [Jump Pack] ····Master of the Legion [The Maru Skara] + Troops (660pts) +Legion Assault Squad (330pts) [Combat Shields, 9x Legion Assault Space Marines, 2x Power Weapon]····Legion Assault Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear]Legion Assault Squad (330pts) [Combat Shields, 9x Legion Assault Space Marines, 2x Power Weapon]····Legion Assault Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear] + Elites (1000pts) + Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (180pts) ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (180pts) ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (180pts) ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] ····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')] Palatine Blade Squad (460pts) [Jump packs, 9x Palatine Warrior, 9x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] ····Palatine Prefector [Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear] + Heavy Support (440pts) + Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher] Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher] + Legion + Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children] The plan with this last pinning list is to keep everything well in place by forcing as many pinning checks as possible. The Deredeos can force checks, and there are 9 Rapiers with Frag Shells to also force pinning tests but these are at -1LD. And with 36 3" Pinning Blasts and 6 Pinning Missiles from the Deredeo, failed tests are bound to happen (yes I do understand that its still 1 test per unit). For any Heavy Armor and the like, well, 44 S8 Sunder Shots are there spread out between the Deredeos and the Quad Mortars. The 2 Deredeos should be sufficient to deal with most Anti-Air needs, hopefully... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The size of your units does not warrant the use of primus medicae. Use apothecarion detachments were you can, use the points for more bodies. At this point, more bodies outweigh a 5+ save available some of the time. Especially at 165 points. I would keel the spear count at 2/5 models or 3/5 models. You will lose some on the way in, no need to be lost spears that you paid for. I would advocate a Lightning to deal with spartans, it's armourbane missiles can wreck havoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 The size of your units does not warrant the use of primus medicae. Use apothecarion detachments were you can, use the points for more bodies. At this point, more bodies outweigh a 5+ save available some of the time. Especially at 165 points. I would keel the spear count at 2/5 models or 3/5 models. You will lose some on the way in, no need to be lost spears that you paid for. I would advocate a Lightning to deal with spartans, it's armourbane missiles can wreck havoc. Thanks bud! Its mostly why EVERY-SINGLE-LIST has the Void Shield Harness: To safeguard against small arms fire on the way in. I'll see about bringing down the Lists that have 10x Spears down to ~5. I thought of the Lightnings. I'll try and work some in somewhere in there. Just couldn't find the space for it between minimum requirements and the foreknowledge of the Anti-Air present in our collections :p I'll probably cut the Termy PM from the Balls-to-the-walls list and shove in 1/2 More Phoenix Guard and Tac Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The size of your units does not warrant the use of primus medicae. Use apothecarion detachments were you can, use the points for more bodies. At this point, more bodies outweigh a 5+ save available some of the time. Especially at 165 points. I would keel the spear count at 2/5 models or 3/5 models. You will lose some on the way in, no need to be lost spears that you paid for. I would advocate a Lightning to deal with spartans, it's armourbane missiles can wreck havoc. Thanks bud! Its mostly why EVERY-SINGLE-LIST has the Void Shield Harness: To safeguard against small arms fire on the way in. I'll see about bringing down the Lists that have 10x Spears down to ~5. I thought of the Lightnings. I'll try and work some in somewhere in there. Just couldn't find the space for it between minimum requirements and the foreknowledge of the Anti-Air present in our collections I'll probably cut the Termy PM from the Balls-to-the-walls list and shove in 1/2 More Phoenix Guard and Tac Marines. Unless you know for a fact that my death guard will ahve 3 deredeos as heavies, I wouldn't worry too much ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 TAKE 5! Mostly taking Assault Marines so that the monetary investment for troops is as low as possible :x +++ EC - Balanced? (2500pts) +++++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) +++ HQ (390pts) +Legion Centurion (185pts) [boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Power Armour, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness]····Consul [Legion Champion]Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts) [Jump Pack]····Master of the Legion [The Maru Skara]+ Troops (620pts) +Legion Assault Squad (310pts) [9x Legion Assault Space Marines, 2x Power Weapon]····Legion Assault Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Hand Flamer, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear]Legion Assault Squad (310pts) [9x Legion Assault Space Marines, 2x Power Weapon]····Legion Assault Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Hand Flamer, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear]+ Elites (410pts) +Palatine Blade Squad (410pts) [Jump packs, 9x Palatine Warrior, 4x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers]····Palatine Prefector [Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear]+ Fast Attack (470pts) +Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (235pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 3x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (235pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 3x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]+ Heavy Support (610pts) +Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher]Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons]Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons]+ Legion +Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ec is a very hard legion to 'perfect' I haven't played for about a month, but ec aren't the beasts of combat that we are, and after 12 odd games losing streak I was getting disheartened trying to play a combat based army.. The bonuses are little, and almost not worth taking..but I have moaned about the many downfalls before. I have found that the best way is to try to hammer with guns as much as you can, and try to hit them with a unit of jump packs and Eidolon and palatines to flank or hack things up. At 3k, I'd be taking the Fell blade They are in my opinion the weakest of the legions, and im still trying to hold out hope that we will get an update post istvaan 3 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ec is a very hard legion to 'perfect' I haven't played for about a month, but ec aren't the beasts of combat that we are, and after 12 odd games losing streak I was getting disheartened trying to play a combat based army.. The bonuses are little, and almost not worth taking..but I have moaned about the many downfalls before. I have found that the best way is to try to hammer with guns as much as you can, and try to hit them with a unit of jump packs and Eidolon and palatines to flank or hack things up. At 3k, I'd be taking the Fell blade They are in my opinion the weakest of the legions, and im still trying to hold out hope that we will get an update post istvaan 3 at least. Yeah, I agree with you sadly. Still, I'm going to try my damn best to make them work! As is evidenced by the tons of lists I've been popping out in this thread. If only Phoenix Guard cost less and Palatine Blades had 2+ Standard. Would make them a lot easier to swallow. Also agree on the Maru Skara bonuses. Which is why I'm strongly considering Angels Wrath for H&R JP Marines. Its also why I made the "Pinning for Days" list since anything thats pinned is hard pressed to do anything to stop an Assault unit from charging them. Anyways, I still appreciate your insight since you're the main EC Tactica proponent down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ahh that's sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Ahh that's sweet I agree about phoenix guard, for the elite of the emperors children, ws4 is a bit shabby. I think they were designed around the first legions, and have been subverted by the rest since. It can definately take a while, I think I got a decent list, it got to tine right, and can be a bummer when wrong! I was discussing with hesh about outflanking dreads. If your set on that. Legion or temptors can take grav guns, Fists and chainfists. Can outflank t2, move into cover and shoot, or prepare an assault. Bigger games, outflank can be a nuisance, and depending what you take a hammer too. I was toying with palatines in a phobos, but then I'm 50/50 with that, or a decent jump pack unit to take with eidolon! ... I completely forgot about Dreads. How, due to my absolute love for Contemptors, is beyond me but, imma try something with them. For the Palatines, while a Phobos would be great, I kinda wanted to try something different since my IF already have 1 Phobos, 1 Spartan and 1 Achilles + Sicarian. I kinda want to deviate away from heavy tanks for now. Though, if it ever becomes apparent that thats the way to go, I still have an unpainted crusader.. Its the main reason why I'm always taking the Void Shield Harness on the Generic HQ so that I at least put and Av12 Bubble between my Palatines and the Enemy. And if it survives to get into charge range for a Bolter Blob or other infantry that can't shoot down Av12 (overwatch or otherwise) then I think I'm Golden. I Might just Dump 1 Sicarian and 1 Kraken-Lightning for 2 Grav/Dakka Dreads (or any combination thereof) Though I really want to try the Phosphex-Lightning out at some point since its the same cost as the Krakens. Maybe Even the Rad-missile options for anti-mechanicum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Dreads are definitely worth a thought, flanking they will be primary targets for heavy weapons, so hide them well! Grav guns on each fist for haywire shots. I tried infantry heavy lists with ec, the palatines generally took most of the firepower, and I felt every loss in the charge. 5/6 are a lot less effective than 9/10. I armed them with half spears, Half swords or power sword. Jump packs work ok, but only if supported by a 15 man assault squad with eidolon in to buff them. Maybe you can try jump packs on them and void shield with champ or chaplain? And try to use cover and the assault marines as cover? It's definately worth taking heavy weapons, perhaps quad mortars? Fairly decent from the points costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 This is pretty helpful for me to see because it seems that I may be playing against EC in the future. Or that guy at my FLGS only has an fulgrim model. I like the list, a bit unconventional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 As I have told you in prior discussions, Close combat is a dead thing in Warhammer in general. the ruleset is pretty dead set against it no matter how much you try. Even World Eaters have a hard time with it. The way I see it, EC are about timing attacks. Kinda like Koreans in Starcraft. You need to know what your opponent is fielding, how he is likely to use his units, and time your attack to make the best use out of that window of opportunity that presents itself. I don't see EC as a particularly good close combat army, but rather as excelling at close combat clean up. Batter them at range and close up for the kill. Air cav will work well in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Air Cav it is then! Wanted to save that for the BA but it looks like Purple & White instead of Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Blood angels will probably get a pimped out version of Angel's wrath with Deepstriking assault squads like drop pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 As I have told you in prior discussions, Close combat is a dead thing in Warhammer in general. the ruleset is pretty dead set against it no matter how much you try. Even World Eaters have a hard time with it. The way I see it, EC are about timing attacks. Kinda like Koreans in Starcraft. You need to know what your opponent is fielding, how he is likely to use his units, and time your attack to make the best use out of that window of opportunity that presents itself. I don't see EC as a particularly good close combat army, but rather as excelling at close combat clean up. Batter them at range and close up for the kill. Air cav will work well in this regard. I agree that EC aren't very good at combat compared to others, but I disagree that combat is 'dead' It's harder yes, but if there weren't combat units everyone would just have the same builds!! How exactly are you going to know all that info? What they play, how etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 As I have told you in prior discussions, Close combat is a dead thing in Warhammer in general. the ruleset is pretty dead set against it no matter how much you try. Even World Eaters have a hard time with it. The way I see it, EC are about timing attacks. Kinda like Koreans in Starcraft. You need to know what your opponent is fielding, how he is likely to use his units, and time your attack to make the best use out of that window of opportunity that presents itself. I don't see EC as a particularly good close combat army, but rather as excelling at close combat clean up. Batter them at range and close up for the kill. Air cav will work well in this regard. I agree that EC aren't very good at combat compared to others, but I disagree that combat is 'dead' It's harder yes, but if there weren't combat units everyone would just have the same builds!! How exactly are you going to know all that info? What they play, how etc? Close combat is dead in the sense that it cannot be the main focus of your army, or your primary vector to victory. There are just too many premiums to pay to be effective in close combat, and even more so to get there. 40k had what was deemed at the time (early to mid 2000s) an unrealistic amount of close combat involved into such a futuristic game, and it created a toxic environment both for gamers and sales. You can use close combat units as janitor force and put pressure on objectives. That's the extent of their utility. Warhammer in general is design to make you pay too much for added mobility, even though the units who desire it the most sacrifice substantial shooting ability in the process. In a tourmanent setting, you get to inspect your opponent's army for example. In friendly games, I always put my army out and explain what each unit has, and expect the same from my opponents. This is a gentlemen's game afterall. EC basically has to that extra degree of martial planning and be very critical of deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Iv seen some more combat based armies be quite successful. World eaters red butchers and rampagers are devastating on the charge. A lot more than useless phoenix guard and so so palatines. They had some armoyr support of course. I generally play 1-2 cc units in a 2500 game, a15 man assault squad with eidelon, and a 10 man palatine squad with 5 spears. The rest of my main stay force is 2 units of 15 tacticals and apothecary, and the rest depends how I feel. Iv taken to liking a sicaran, and 2 dakka preds as auto includes lately though. My champ or consul of most types is always armed with phoenix spear and boarding shield as a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It's fine to have CC options. At one point or another, things are bound to get up close and personal if there is any incentive to go forward. It's a sad day when World Eaters have a hard time of it. I think that people focus too much on EC's initiative bonuses to realize they are meant to have an easy time cleaning up left overs and not dominate the close combat phase. Even Pheonix Spears scream "ONE ROUND OF COMBAT OR BUST!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Iv not really seen the world eaters suffer in combat, especially against my equivalent units. Starters they can gain fnp. Ec are more charge and win or bust yes, which is very hard to plan ironically, as ec are supposed to be about perfect timing! Anyway, it's good to have the option, but a combat orientated ec army isn't really feasible. Unless you just field lots of units of palatines which are expensive!'and even then they'd suffer horribly to getting countered or shot down. They are good, compared to the rest we have, but very glass hammer ish if that makes sense, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Oh, WE don't suffer in close combat, they suffer all the way to get there though lol. I was thinking about a pride of the legion build for them with Vets in Rhinos for fast moving fire bases and clean up potential. A light version of armoured spearhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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