[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[Charlo]

He doesn't, the only caveat is that it is a loyalist exclusive trick. But infiltrating 30 Terminators is pretty rad.

[Chaeron]

Apologies if this has been covered more broadly - but I'm guessing a Spartan is the best delivery mechanism for Mortarion? I'm toying with running him without it, but I thought that getting him closer may be most useful. This would be at the 2500pts mark, if that makes a difference.

 

Trying to work out what I will include in the rest of the list too...

[ThatOneMarshal]

Apologies if this has been covered more broadly - but I'm guessing a Spartan is the best delivery mechanism for Mortarion? I'm toying with running him without it, but I thought that getting him closer may be most useful. This would be at the 2500pts mark, if that makes a difference.

 

Trying to work out what I will include in the rest of the list too...

Mort can also work well in a dreadclaw with a termie retinue as well as a Kharydis. However if your using the reaping then your stuck with the good ole spartan or land raider. 

[Charlo]

Remember, you Dont always have to go to your opponent. Many will come to you. Morty can redeploy very quickly across the board with his teleport. Backed up by a fleet charge he has a potential threat range of 28 inches! So you don't always need a transport. Edited March 27, 2016 by Charlo

[Chaeron]

That's true, it's such a handy ability - I just didn't know if getting him closer quicker would be better! I may have to invest in a Dreadclaw for possibilities then, but at least I can theoretically run without it.

[Charlo]

Since losing unwieldy Morty is one of the best Primarchs imo. He's shooty, hitty and mobile. Instant death is great too.

 

Run him into Automata and watch your enemy cry.

[v6v77]

Hey guys, AL player here dropping in the say thanks for the terminators, Alpharus is pleased

[The Acid Dog]

Hey guys, AL player here dropping in the say thanks for the terminators, Alpharus is pleased .

On a serious note the new Deathshroud are amazing, mincing anyone they come against really on the charge. Pity about them not being Catas though.

Cataphractii's nice and all, but you can't swing those blades out and reap your enemies as they try to run if you're wearing it! And having TWO units of Termies that can overwatch in Cataphractii might make our more jealous cousins cry. Edited March 30, 2016 by Brazentooth

[Charlo]

Aye, deathshroud being able to sweep is a huge boon, seeing as they'll most likely win combat against a lot of other types of terminators.

 

If you're looking for more rewards of Treason, I'd love to see what some counter attack grave wardens could do. Oh my. Now that is a God Damn Road block.

[The Acid Dog]

So, I have a question for my Barbaran brethren: how do you fight in the Zone Mortalis? What units really shine for you? How about preferred Rites of War?

 

Geez, all those close corridors and all those chem-flamers. I get giddy just thinking about it.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Brazentooth

[Charlo]

Mortarion.

 

He's basically broken in ZM as he can teleport across walls and such :D

 

Chem flamer breachers are good, as are Grave Wardens.

 

Remember you can buy void hardened armour on heavy support chem heavy flamer squads which are cheap as it is anyway.

[1ncarnadine]

^Yep. Shadow of the Reaper might as well be called "The Jason Voorhees." You think you've gotten away and then he's just around the corner with Silence, waiting.

[DuskRaider]

For Zone Mortalis, I've found the following really useful:

 

Cataphractii Terminators: Obviously. I'll throw both Combi-Flamer and Volkite, but use Heavy Flamers as the Special Weapons almost exclusively. Remember, in ZM they not only get Shred but also +1 Strength for already having the USR. So Flamers are S5 and Heavy Flamers are S6... you're killing your fellow Marines on 2s, it's just nasty.

 

Grave Wardens: Despite not really liking this unit at all for regular games, they're vicious in ZM. Their weapons, being blast templates, come into their own in the corridors of death, as rarely will you ever miss. Cheap Chain Fists make bulkheads a non-issue, and again... Chem Flamers.

 

Primus Medicae: These guys take what the above two are and make them better. A lot better. You're getting FNP on your Terminator squad, they've got Consul stats, and they're not limited in what weapons they can take, so you can have a mean surprise hiding in that Terminator squad.

 

Contemptors: This is a no-brainer. In a game where the most you can take is walkers, why not take the king of walkers (that fit in ZM corridors)? I give mine a Plasma Cannon / DCCW and Multi-Melta / DCCW. In-built weapon is usually a Heavy Flamer. They're pretty frightening when you don't have many places to run, and playing with the hidden unit tokens makes for a startling discovery when that unit you were hoping were Tacticals turn the corner and it's a Contemptor.

 

Destroyers: They're expensive, but with our re-roll on Dangerous Terrain, they can become a very fast corridor runner with their Jump Packs. Thanks to the boards usually being very small and narrow, you'll be hard pressed to run into an enemy squad over 10-men strong, and a squad of 10 Destroyers will wipe just about anything barring perhaps Terminators in one round of shooting. Adding a Moritat makes them even more capable.

 

Despoilers: Tactical Marines w/ extra CCWs. Keep their Bolters to make use of FotL, but having that extra attack is quite useful when you're usually in charge range.

 

Mortarion: Really nothing to say about this that hasn't already been said, except the new rules on Silence make him an even more capable Primarch and should give his fellow Primarchs pause when contemplating combat.

[Marshal Loss]

Don't forget Breachers. Act similarly to Grave Wardens in that they're great at absorbing charges and can be decked out with flamers & a combi-flamer on the Sergeant, not to mention that the whole squad can be given melta bombs. Not the best but they do shine in ZM

 

Also, non-HF HSS squads can be nice too - Plasma Cannons gaining shred etc! Lots of options available.

 

I like to use a Deredeo with the Plasma weapons & Atomantic Pavaise - combine that with Terminators of various descriptions and you can stop a push dead in its tracks.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Marshal Loss

[Charlo]

Ugh. Grave Wardens, Deredeo and a Primus.

 

Vicious.

[disease]

Thoughts on running a veteran heavy list when playing the reaping?    Furious Charge vets, rad grenades & axes could be nasty?

[Charlo]

Thoughts on running a veteran heavy list when playing the reaping?    Furious Charge vets, rad grenades & axes could be nasty?

 

Love it personally. Only problem is getting to the enemy in one piece. Rhinos aren't assault vehicles and pods are disallowed because no deep strike.

 

It's either a foot slog or Land Raiders, which are expensive. Plus you need your two tac squads on top of that.

 

That said it's a very fluffy DG thing, slamming through no mans land then de-trenching the enemy with Bolter/ Flamer/ Melta. They have a high proportion of Vets due to the martial attitude of being good skill with everything!

 

Maybe instead of the Reaping to get Rad grenades - Use Forge Lords and Destroyers to supplement your charges.

[exsanguis]

Brothers, how do you feel about this list @ 2.5k for The Reaping? Going for fluffy yet balanced:

 

HQ - Calas Typhon - The Reaping

HQ - Deathshroud x6 - because 7 (incl. Typhon) is Papa Nurgle's favourite number!

 

TR - Legion Tactical Squad x15 - AA, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Vexilla, Additional CCW's

TR - Legion Tactical Squad x15 - AA, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Vexilla, Additional CCW's

TR - Legion Heavy Support Squad x10 - AA, Volkite Culverins

 

EL - 3x Apothecaries - AA, Scanners, Rad Grenades - one with each troops squad

EL - Rapiers x2 - Grav Cannons

 

HS - Sicaran Battle Tank - Lascannons

HS - Vindicator Squadron x2 - LDA's

HS - Spartan Assault Tank - Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield, Frag Launchers

 

2500 on the nose. Areas where I think points can be saved/changes made:
1. Apothecary for the Volkite squad? They will be in cover blazing away most of the game.

2. Grav Rapiers - 2x Grav or 3x LDA?

3. Sicaran - Battle Tank or Venator?

4. Typhon - I love the model, but he could be used as a Praetor with TDA and a Paragon Blade or Scythe if necessary.

Edited April 5, 2016 by exsanguis

[Charlo]

Like it!

 

I'm dubious of Tactical blobs in this game but we're DG so we power through - especially with a Medic. Great thing about Rad grenades is that they can be used pretty defensively too, as they affect Overwatch as well!

 

Apoth for the Volkite squad is great. Especially with a Scanner. Like I just said overwatch Rad nades too. S6 + T3 = Instant Death :D

 

As much as I hate them and they are boring I'd keep the Grav Rapiers I suppose. They synergize well with the reaping as you have MTC and up the AV area denial. Plus 2LDA on the Vindi's is more than enough.

 

I'd go for a normal Sicaran unless you fight a lot of Super Heavies (particularly Typhons) - in which Case a Venator will keep your Tac blobs a lot safer.

 

Typhon is a beast now, especially with the changes to Scythes. Sure a normal Preator may be able to outfight him... BUT the bombardment is cool, his warlord trait is incredible and you could end up with...

 

INVISIBLE. DEATHSHROUD.

[disease]

Im not convinced by taking that many tactical marines? They have no transport so will just sit around most of the game doing nothing offensive.

[Chaeron]

I really like it! I'm a big fan of an implacable advance, and especially with an apothecary do become very survivable. May post up my list that I'm currently working through later.

 

Current internal debate is whether I consider either Basilisks or Medusas in future - anyone have experience or recommendations of either? Was considering in investing in a battery of two at some point. And Rapiers - what do we think may be best?

[Charlo]

Medusas. Every. Time.

 

Basilisks look cool, but the ap3 makes them pretty poor in reality. Everything a basilisk can do, a whirlwind scorpius can do better.

 

As for rapiers - quad Mortars are the best all around but even better for us when we take a siege breaker and upgrade them to Phosphex rounds! Fluffy too!

[Slips]

Medusas. Every. Time.

 

Basilisks look cool, but the ap3 makes them pretty poor in reality. Everything a basilisk can do, a whirlwind scorpius can do better.

 

As for rapiers - quad Mortars are the best all around but even better for us when we take a siege breaker and upgrade them to Phosphex rounds! Fluffy too!

HOLD UP!

 

If you're playing an Apocalypse game, Basilisks are definitely a better choice at that point!

[DuskRaider]

Large Tactical Squads are awesome, I don't know what you guys are smoking. They're such a small price point that you take them with Apothecarion and either they'll bite the dust like proper meat shields and your enemy will be ignoring other threats in your army, or they'll be completely ignored in favor of taking down scarier targets and they will cut your enemy's forces down with Fury of the Legion and that extra CCW you WILL give them. Even better when you hide ICs like Master of Signals or Champion in the blob. MoS will give them BS 5 for FotL, Champion will be the surprise beatstick hiding in the crowd.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Now I know I'll be speaking for the majority of us here when I say that in the grim darkness of 30k, a massive loss of life in mere seconds is a norm for us. In my meta (which is relatively tame compared to others here) I must contend with the solar auxilia with their vindicator transports, mechanicum, whom have basic infantry that spits out ap 3, imperial knight, which prey on large blobs, and my fellow astartes with medusas and napalm quad mortars.

 

When low ap high strength is the norm then you can understand that stuff dies quite fast.

 

So then let's ask ourselves why we buy the extra 10 guys in the squad? It's to be bullet sponges right? Okay sure, but thy can still get killed by small arms fire. Buy them a rhino and there immune to anything S 4 and below.

 

Movement wise their incredibly slow. From my expierence with my Templar blobs I can say that moving 20 dudes feels clunky. You'll need to space them out to avoid templates and you'll need some cover. It gets really tiring quick.

 

What about damage output? Range wise they've got bolters. Bolters unfortunately aren't the hotness against marines. Against say Milita, sure. But against marines not much. At 24 inches their firing 20 Bolter shots, which won't really do much, maybe kill a couple of guys. When you get to say 40 you'll kill quite a bit more. As we all know the sweet spot is 12 inches with fury of legion where you'll devastate that squad, and I definetly agree with you there. But it's getting there that's the problem. Ther slow, and they'll take quite a few casualties. This means that by the time your at the Enemy you'll be at 10 maybe. As we've established before 40 bolters will not cripple a squad, and when your that close you sure as hell will need to.

 

Close combat wise, as we've established their slow. When you get into combat they can do quite well, relying weight of attacks to get the job done. Your going to need some special advantages against some of the legion elites though, but that's expected I suppose. They however are not a true combat unit, don't throw them at palatine blades or a night raptor squad for example.

 

Now neither of these things would be bad if their points cost were good, but alas they are not very cheap. It is 320 points for the prescribed load out you had, without any upgrades to the seargent besides artificer armor. At that pints tag the squad becomes an investment, so you invest in an apothecary to keep them running. But that's an extra 45 points without the Arti armor.

 

Let's compare that to an veteran squad, which you can get in the reaping which a lot of DG players use:

 

Tacticals:

20 men

Extra ccw

Vexilia

Vox/ optional

Seargent: artificer armor

 

Veteran squad:

10 men

2 heavy flamers with chem munitions or heavy bolters

Vexilia

Vox

Squad wide melta bombs

Rhino

Seargent: Arti armor

Sniper special skill

 

Both cost 320 points.

 

The tacticals are stuck moving 6 inches to 12 depending on how they run. They can be hurt by lasguns and bolters. They can handle themselves in melee with ccw.

 

Veterans have sniper bolters allowing them to potentially rend things as well as take out pesky special weapons with precision shot. They have special weapon which heavy bolters. They can deal with tanks with melta bombs. They can move 6 to 18 inches in their rhino. They are immune to lasguns and Bolter until blown out of their ride.

 

Ultimately I believe that tacticals are best as you said with close combat weapons lugging around a special characters. I would rather take them in a rhino at 10 men however. They are expensive which makes losing them really hurt. If their not firing at my unit then I've still got problems due to the fact I can't reasonably hurt them. Survivalbility wise a rhino suits them better when tucked into cover.

 

Don't take me wrong I love tactical blobs, but at least on my meta they are simply outclassed. Now in your mets they may be excellent, shock is great because it allows you to run a unit you like but it simply isn't for me and quite a few people here. It won't stop me from running a couple of squads though, and they can work well in a spartan wth reasonable support.

Edited April 10, 2016 by ThatOneMarshal