[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[disease]

It is widely regarded that competitively, 10man tacs in rhinos are better than 20 man blobs. 

 

I would agree that when heresy first dropped, 20man blobs with apothecaries were the business, but as the game has changed and whirlwinds, typhons, thanatars etc have become more popular, they are simply outclassed by rhino squads and / or infiltrating breachers. But that applies to most legions, not specifically the DG. Applying to a DG context, most of us will run the Reaping rite of war, in which our movement is severly limited (no running or deep strike). As such, having a rhino transport makes even more sense so we can move to far away objectives. Now some will argue that a 20man blob makes a great home objective camper, but I say what is the point of that when the reaping allows us to take volkite devastators as a scoring unit? The volkites will have more damage output and a longer range than some tacs hoping something gets close enough to be furied. Large blobs can work (World Eaters, SOH) but I don't feel they work for the DG rules as they stand. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Flint13
keep it non-inflammatory, plz and thx

[Charlo]

I agree.

 

Although there is nothing I love more than the image of 20 bare ceramited dudes trudging forward, bolters ablaze before they descend into the enemy trenches with rad grenades and chem flamers all the while enemy fire just pinging off thier armour... That's just it.

 

We ain't against some pansy feral human world, were against other marines with heavy ordnance.

 

A Typhon and clean blow up a 20man in one go and make all of its points back :c

 

Meta-forgiving... Go for it! Run those blobs and be a true hero! Otherwise you may be better off with some Vets in a Rhino or just a happy camper squad of ten.

[Chaeron]

Does Creeping Death as a RoW not make big squads slogging it more viable, to a certain extent? I've been tempted by that and having two large core squads (20-strong), both backed up with an Apothecary - to ensure they make it to close quarters. Then, for the rest of the list, having a Medusa and Quad-Mortar battery too, and then filling the rest with some fun stuff!

[Slips]

Creeping Death Coupled with Vigilators for Cameleolines to give squads stealth for a 4+ Cover in the open is definitely a thing. And since it doesn't stop Deepstrikes, load up on some Dreadnought Drop Pods for Shrouded when being targeted through them for a 2+ Cover in the Open.

 

A bit convoluted but potentially hilarious.

[DuskRaider]

I would NEVER rely on Rhinos in 30K. They're cardboard boxes and once they're inevitably popped, you've only got 10 guys trudging up the board, if not less in the case of an explosion. On heavy terrain boards, sure... smaller = better. But how many times are you playing on boards that dense? Like I said, when I use them their shelf life is inconsequential. They're there to pull the attention away from something scarier, or be completely ignored and cause a ruckus up close.

[Charlo]

Creeping Death Coupled with Vigilators for Cameleolines to give squads stealth for a 4+ Cover in the open is definitely a thing. And since it doesn't stop Deepstrikes, load up on some Dreadnought Drop Pods for Shrouded when being targeted through them for a 2+ Cover in the Open.

 

A bit convoluted but potentially hilarious.

 

Yeah I think this is the best way we can use this rite to be honest. Plus vigilators mean you get an extra 6" accross the board first.

 

When it says "targetted through" does it just mean that, because the pod is hollow they're shooting through that?

 

Seems very obvious but just want to check!

[Slips]

Yes, you have to be getting shot through said hollow pod to get the bonus. It works both ways though!

[disease]

lets talk DG and allies. What makes for great allies when we use our legion rites? What about DG using a rite as an ally to another force?

[Charlo]

lets talk DG and allies. What makes for great allies when we use our legion rites? What about DG using a rite as an ally to another force?

 

The Reaping is pretty cool as an allied force if you want some heavy weapon teams, especially heavy flamers. You can take a Cheap Tac Squad, then as the extra heavy & Troop you can take Heavy Weapon squads. One of which that scores! Or you can use characters/ cheap tac squads that move through cover to bolster assaults with Rad Grenades.

 

I suppose the Creeping Death wouldn't be too bad to mess with your enemies cover and forge a marine allied deathsatr with a vigilator for a 4+ in the open and a scout move. Sadly a Primary detatchment of creeping death cannot take allies.

 

As Allies for us, I suppose a major advantage is that we can run the reaping and still have allies. Also they can give us some deep strike/ fast attack that the reaping denies.

 

In addition, with access to terminators in every slot but Fast Attack (and troops unless you run pride) we can make a really elite forward force of 2+ with an allied detachment of Solar Auxilia/ Militia/ Ad Mech to stay back, cap rear objectives and bring the heavy firepower. Because of this we also really rock the Dark Compliance list (which I fully plan to do).

[Chaeron]

Picked up copies of the revised Red Book (and Crusade Army List) at the weekend - and I had thought (mistakenly!) that 'Creeping Death' and other Rites were in the new one, rather than just in Retribution. This got me thinking - is that the only book in with the new RoW? Only had Betrayal previously - so haven't actively looked in 2-5, and now it seems I may need 6 going forward!

[Charlo]

6 is the only one with it so far - you aren't missing out on much though, unless you play on a lot of jungle terrain...?

 

It'll probably be in the next Legions book in a couple of years time.

[DuskRaider]

If you have the Reaping, you're good as far as Legion-specific RoWs go.

[Slips]

I made a thread in AoD Proper about the various FW books and what the headlining stuff is in them so feel free to look that up.

 

Otherwise, yeah, unless you commit to Creeping Death Cover Shenanigans (Vigilators, Dreadpods) and houserule the Chem Bombardment, The Reaping is probably your best bet unless running a Generic RoW like "TERMINATORS FOR DAYS" Pride of the Legion.

[1000 Sons]

I am loving creeping death. The required siege master means that quad guns get phosphex shots. A dread nought or two in drop pods can put some early in your face pressure, and if you get night fighting you got 4+ cover saves first turn. Also getting full use out of fast attack is nice, a squad of outsiders and some fliers can really change the role of some of our other units.

[Chaeron]

6 is the only one with it so far - you aren't missing out on much though, unless you play on a lot of jungle terrain...?

 

It'll probably be in the next Legions book in a couple of years time.

 

Who knows when I may need to fight over Catachan? :lol: Sadly not at this moment in time - which does reduce the viability I suppose.

 

I made a thread in AoD Proper about the various FW books and what the headlining stuff is in them so feel free to look that up.

 

Otherwise, yeah, unless you commit to Creeping Death Cover Shenanigans (Vigilators, Dreadpods) and houserule the Chem Bombardment, The Reaping is probably your best bet unless running a Generic RoW like "TERMINATORS FOR DAYS" Pride of the Legion.

 

Cheers Slips, knew I'd seen that somewhere - really helpful. I confess, the cover thing is the big seller for me - only because my list(s) currently aren't truly making use of the Reaping, so this seemed slightly more beneficial.

 

I am loving creeping death. The required siege master means that quad guns get phosphex shots. A dread nought or two in drop pods can put some early in your face pressure, and if you get night fighting you got 4+ cover saves first turn. Also getting full use out of fast attack is nice, a squad of outsiders and some fliers can really change the role of some of our other units.

 

Although I've not yet got Dreads in Pods (lots of Dreads, no pods), I'm definitely thinking that cover save has a benefit for slogging troops - with a minimal tax to also bulk on Phosphex - but still something I have to weigh up.

[Charlo]

It's not that garbage, it's mainly the fact that it's main offensive benefit is just plain useless on 99% of boards in Gamesworkshop even. 40k boards are citiyscapes. Why? Because that is the terrain GW sells!

 

I think some merits can certainly be said with the vigilators, deep strike access, dread pod shrouding and then blobs with Apothecary's for maximum survival. It fits a medium range army that closes in with minimal casualties then seals the deal in CC, all under the cover of bombardment.

 

If it got RAD 'nades it would be a lot more viable IMO. Maybe something to do with Medusas getting Phosphex shells in addition to normal shells or Phosphex upgrade was free on Quad Mortars. Or maybe even a Phosphex barrage before the game begins...?

 

Hidden Content

PHOSPHEX

[Chaeron]

 

...and then blobs with Apothecary's for maximum survival. It fits a medium range army that closes in with minimal casualties then seals the deal in CC, all under the cover of bombardment.

 

If it got RAD 'nades it would be a lot more viable IMO. Maybe something to do with Medusas getting Phosphex shells in addition to normal shells or Phosphex upgrade was free on Quad Mortars. Or maybe even a Phosphex barrage before the game begins...?

 

Hidden Content

PHOSPHEX

 

Definitely blobs with Apothecaries - I plan to run two lots of 20: because it's fun. Maximise the save potential!

 

I'm guessing the thought of potentially Phosphexing all possible bits of terrain may have been seen as being too powerful... 

 

Guess I need to make some jungle terrain :lol:

[1000 Sons]

My siege master usually sits in a group of 10 rocket launcher squad with an apothacary,  tank hunter and strength 5 frag, and quads with phosphex add a lot of back field support. 

 

The bombardment rule could have just targeted all terrain outside of deployment zones on a 4+.

Edited April 19, 2016 by 1000 sons

[Charlo]

I think at a lower points level without Primarchs and spartan death stars creeping death could do rather well. Think I might run it once I get some paint down.

[Chaeron]

I'm hoping to test both potential list variants: one with Creeping Death, one with The Reaping - and see what works. Appreciate one is more situational than the other, naturally - but as I've mentioned, it's a trade-off - as I don't fully utilise either irrespective of which list I would currently run with, it's just an added bonus.

 

I can totally see the merit in tailoring a list to the RoW though. I think for occasions where it's less narrative driven, I'll look to do that more frequently.

 

I've currently got 4 Deathshroud backing up Mortarion in a Spartan myself - is it worth changing that up, or do people think that's going to be relatively consistent in terms of Primarch + Bodyguard in the current gaming climate? 

[Charlo]

Climate is totally dependent on your personal meta.

 

Only thing I'd look out for there is a lightning or such just pummeling your box early. I'd maybe beef up the deathshroud and add in a Primus medicae. He goes a lot further on 2W models IMO.

 

The great thing about Mortarion though is that between moving a Spartan, disembarking, his reaper move and a fleet charge he can quite often get a first turn charge.

 

He's the Ultimate counter to infiltrating Castellax and the like, as he insta-gibbs them very easily.

[LtDan]

Hi guys sorry if this has been covered but to gravewardens EACH get to fire the deathcloud ie normally or overwatch or just one per unit?? Thanks

[Charlo]

Hi guys sorry if this has been covered but to gravewardens EACH get to fire the deathcloud ie normally or overwatch or just one per unit?? Thanks

 

Each  every model has deathcloud!

 

So each one gets D3 Poison 3+ AP4 hits when charged.

[LtDan]

That's cool. So why do they get so much stick?? They look cool and have good rules.

[Charlo]

That's cool. So why do they get so much stick?? They look cool and have good rules.

 

They used to not be able to overwatch and the grenade launchers used to cause a toughness test (so wound marines 1/3 of the time).

 

Now in the update they got overwatch deathcloud, poison 3+ grenade launchers and implacable advance, so they're awesome. Only minor-ish downside is that they take up a heavy support slot.