[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[disease]

Page 99 legion red book, legion specific terminators that are elites are also compulsory troops for pride army.

 

I stand corrected. Thats pretty tough!

[LtDan]

Yeah def is. I run them and vets with heavy flamers in zm. They do great.

[Chaeron]

Beyond ZM, have people found Grave Wardens effective? My only concern is in a relatively congested slot (in a very good way as we know!), I'd struggle to fit them in given their cost and in comparison to the Deathshroud's ability to outlast others? Perhaps however they may have a place in a Pride or Orbital Assault list, where there are other threats and they can be guaranteed a delivery system, but I wondered if collectively there was something I hadn't thought of. My previous use in ZM recently was superb though, but I'm leaning towards them being situationally effective and specific, rather than including them in general lists on a regular basis as it stands. 

[Charlo]

They can take a Spartan as a dedicated, which makes the fact they take up a HS slot more palatable. They're basically legion terminators +1 because all of their bonuses are awesome.

 

Think of them as Terminators with the shooting of Quad-Mortar Thudd Guns and then they suddenly become very nice.

[LtDan]

I love wardens. Great horde killing.look cool. Can krak vechiles open easy enough. Can overwatch and force disordered charges too. I run morty with them sometimes as they can have a Spartan too

[Chaeron]

Good point with regard to the Spartan all - I'd overlooked that! I'm not too sure if I'd take them with Morty over Deathshroud on a regular basis just because of the volume of wounds, but might be worthwhile just to experiment. A Spartan may well be the answer though!

[LtDan]

If take deathshroud you need a heavy slot for the Spartan anyway. You don't with the wardens. The 4++ helps too. And if your against over terms with fists. 2 wounds doesn't matter

[infyrana]

Ooh it's been a while!

 

I'm currently awaiting the new version of the 30k 7th ed rule book before I splurge and grab the latest Legion Astartes rulebooks, that along with the Dreadnought drop pods.  For all the DG rules, do I simply need the AoD Legions and Army List books ?

 

I was looking to add a centre piece model to my collection (sees 99.99% shelf time) but only have the budget for something around the price of an Imperial Knight (Errant / Crusader) or Baneblade (Shadowsword) kit and would really like to hear peoples opinions please?

 

My preference is for the IK as I appreciate my Walkers, but am I correct in thinking I need 2x IK's for a Questoris Knight allied force?  Or can you cheat a little and use a normal plastic Tech-Priest Archmagos model to represent Draykavac ?

Edited December 23, 2017 by infyrana

[infyrana]

 

Drop pod deathguard list!! Def interested in seeing that.

 

I've probably mentioned, I was lucky enough to play against one (brother against brother!) at the last Throne of Skulls: definitely got me thinking that I'd like to try that! I think in terms of general tactica, it's so much more upfront and aggressive than I would normally play - and I think that in itself offers a variety of tactical challenges. That said, I've run with the idea and I'd ideally include Mortarion and the Leviathan in Pod, but I've got to play around with points and ideas. Building those three Dreadclaws is next on the list for starters, but hopefully - I'll have that ready for the Autumn. I'd definitely welcome any thoughts anyone has on that sort of strategy at this stage: I'm weighing up the number of Tacticals vs. Terminators in a list like that, to maximise both scoring and combat potential in what is an initially mobile list, but slows thereafter.

 

 

 

Did you ever get around to this list - or prepping one for trial ?  Interested to know how viable it could be.

[Chaeron]

 

 

 

 

Drop pod deathguard list!! Def interested in seeing that.

I've probably mentioned, I was lucky enough to play against one (brother against brother!) at the last Throne of Skulls: definitely got me thinking that I'd like to try that! I think in terms of general tactica, it's so much more upfront and aggressive than I would normally play - and I think that in itself offers a variety of tactical challenges. That said, I've run with the idea and I'd ideally include Mortarion and the Leviathan in Pod, but I've got to play around with points and ideas. Building those three Dreadclaws is next on the list for starters, but hopefully - I'll have that ready for the Autumn. I'd definitely welcome any thoughts anyone has on that sort of strategy at this stage: I'm weighing up the number of Tacticals vs. Terminators in a list like that, to maximise both scoring and combat potential in what is an initially mobile list, but slows thereafter.

 

Did you ever get around to this list - or prepping one for trial ? Interested to know how viable it could be.

I have! At least, what I've done so far is prep a few iterations and get everything built - so the next steps are naturally to refine that list and get it all painted, and onto the table! I'd be interested in initial feedback and thoughts, so I'll dig out a potential list and we can discuss.

 

My big points of discussion are how to deal with Tanks generally and holding objectives, but let's see what people's opinions are of the list, and we can look to refine, and I'll crack on with using it!

[LtDan]

Leviathan, gravewardens,shroud(all with melta bomb), melta/plasma support squads, combi melta machine killer vets(with melta bombs). All these can kill tanks and score. Multi bombing is back.

[Chaeron]

Leviathan, gravewardens,shroud(all with melta bomb), melta/plasma support squads, combi melta machine killer vets(with melta bombs). All these can kill tanks and score. Multi bombing is back.

 

Absolutely! I think my concern stems from 'standard games' in terms of dealing with these things at range traditionally, but this is totally off-set with such a potentially aggressive combat (or close-quarters) list. As you say, with stuff like multi-bombing returning (a previously favoured tactic!) - it certainly helps for utility (especially for things like Deathshroud).

 

I've been thinking through possibilities, based on my current collection and what would most likely be fun to field. Whilst not a finalised iteration, there are a few things I'm debating - which I'll also list below, but this stands as a sort of idealistic core with some distinct flexibility:

 

Mortarion and six Deathshroud, in a Kharybdis 

 

Terminator Squad in Dreadclaw

Terminator Squad in Dreadclaw

 

Tactical Squad in Drop Pod

Tactical Squad in Drop Pod

 

Leviathan in Dread Drop Pod (with Claw and Drill)

 

So, even with the above listed - there's quite a bit of scope for upgrades and naturally a lot of points to invest in other things - depending on how this might be developed! Some of the options I'm mulling over are:

 

HQ Choices:

I'm wondering whether a kitted-out Praetor, accompanied by Deathshroud in another Dreadclaw offers a nice alternative combat orientated unit - and offers a dual threat to Mortarion's mini-Death star. I've also seen the Chaplain used to good effect accompanying a unit like this - so whether this could be an option to go with either, might be worth weighing up. I've also just thought that a Primus Medicae could equally be beneficial - but invariably starts adding to the cost of a quite expensive unit! But, either (or both?!) could really help the combat potential and the squad's ability to survive. For narrative campaigns avoiding named characters, the Praetor is a natural swap for Mortarion - so it would perhaps not be best to over-rely on multiple HQs combining, depending on the points limit.

 

Elites:

I'm keen to pack in Terminator squads for their scoring abilities and the fact I rarely take them, but am also tempted by the Quad Launchers I'd usually field. I'm thinking that another squad of Deathshroud would be useful here given their utility (depending on whether the second squad operates as a retinue or not), especially with Meltabombs. Otherwise, I'm not sure whether Veterans or something similar would be a useful investment - but appreciate they are both something different to what I'd usually take and a potential mid-way point between Terminators and Tacticals, which leads me on to...

 

Troops:

I feel as though I should add to this section - perhaps another squad or two worth of regular Tactical Marines in Drop Pods. I think for scoring purposes, flooding this might be helpful, but also in terms of board coverage and target priority these may not attract the same level of attention as the stuff intended to get up close rapidly.

 

Heavy Support:

My dilemma here is over Grave Wardens, because I love the models - but have thoughts whether their cost vs. Deathshroud with Meltabombs, in terms of wounds and capabilities, makes them a viable prospect in a list that I can probably only fit five or so into. Open to thoughts on this front, as I would quite like to use them - and maybe it's just a case of taking them because I like them and hope they're underestimated (I can certainly see their combat potential with the number of Power Fists they can bring to bear). Another option could be a Legion Heavy Support squad, perhaps with Missile Launchers or something similar, as that could be a similarly hefty anti-tank option. 

 

In thinking through options, a Lightning or Fire Raptor have also come into my thinking, but perhaps don't fully fit the total concept of this sort of list. 

 

I'd be keen to hear people's general thoughts on how this might well be structured: I'm not planning for a specific event, but I'm thinking of games mostly in the 2500pts-3000pts region, in the hope I can have a fun go-to list that I can start to get playing with over the coming months. Any comments gratefully appreciated, and I'll naturally report on how it gets on! 

[Charlo]

If you are deep striking everything, you don't want things like missile squads or rapiers.

 

When you arrive you can only snap fire and then are more than likely going to be focused a lot. Not to mention only half of your pods arrive turn 1, and if you prioritize your missiles/ quads, you'll have little on the board that can actually achieve anything!

 

Grave Wardens are a must, I'd actually consider giving the Khyrbdis to a larger squad of them with a HQ support (Primus Medicae is nice, but you need a compulsory HQ.. Chaplain is the easy option but a Siege Breaker with a few Phosphex bombs could be fun! Mortarion can catch a ride in a Dreadclaw with a squad of 3 Deathshroud to maximise your squad spread.

 

Veterans with Machine Killer, Combi-Meltas and Meltabombs give you a solid unit of Anti-Tank (S9 AP1!) that can score an objective after they're done. Plus they're fluffy ;)

[infyrana]

I'm wondering if a second leviathan would be a good option, in fact I wonder about three of them and a cortus!

[Chaeron]

If you are deep striking everything, you don't want things like missile squads or rapiers.

 

When you arrive you can only snap fire and then are more than likely going to be focused a lot. Not to mention only half of your pods arrive turn 1, and if you prioritize your missiles/ quads, you'll have little on the board that can actually achieve anything!

 

Grave Wardens are a must, I'd actually consider giving the Khyrbdis to a larger squad of them with a HQ support (Primus Medicae is nice, but you need a compulsory HQ.. Chaplain is the easy option but a Siege Breaker with a few Phosphex bombs could be fun! Mortarion can catch a ride in a Dreadclaw with a squad of 3 Deathshroud to maximise your squad spread.

 

Veterans with Machine Killer, Combi-Meltas and Meltabombs give you a solid unit of Anti-Tank (S9 AP1!) that can score an objective after they're done. Plus they're fluffy

 

Very true with regard to the Legion Heavy Support and Quad Launchers: it was only when I was thinking it though and was doing some more reading afterwards that I realised it'd be likely to have ramifications on their shooting. I assume it counts as moving as Combat or Cruising Speed when one deploys? 

 

In terms of Grave Wardens, perhaps it is a case of giving them a go beyond ZM: I've currently just got the five, but this could always increase... I really do just keep comparing them to Deathshroud - which perhaps isn't a direct comparison given their relative strengths. Good call on the Siege Breaker: it's my standard go-to HQ, and something like that might be a bit of fun!

 

I also thought more about Veterans - and I think that sort of build might be a really nice option! And as you say, fluffy is what counts! I might play around with fitting them in, perhaps instead of the Praetor, which would still give a nice blend of different types of Legionaries - and some serious close anti-tank potential!

 

I'm wondering if a second leviathan would be a good option, in fact I wonder about three of them and a cortus!

 

I have to say, that would be ideal! The only thing to consider on this front, is that I don't actually have a second Leviathan and Pod - however, I love the thought of one with perhaps the Grav Flux Bombard or something similar. I hadn't actually considered utilising other Dreads, but that might be another option too.

 

In my reading as well, I was thinking about the benefits of odd numbers of Drop Pods - so with potentially just 7 or 8, do we think it might be worth adding to this? Especially in terms of deployment, what do we collectively think would be a good first wave?

[infyrana]

As for order of what to drop, I'm not the gamer to answer that one.  At a guess - I wouldn't want to drop the Levi in a single Levi list on first turn as it's sure to receive all incoming fire, probably best to drop a pair together for best chance of one surviving to turn two.  Perhaps drop the Vet Melta squad first turn to pop any transports, then maybe a Vet Plasma squad or Terminators after as mopup?  I'd think to leave at least one tactical squad for any objectives as a later drop.

 

Have you thought about running more Terminators but using the Deepstrike rule instead of more pods, giving you the points back to add in that Vet squad in a pod or Contemptor(s)?

 

Looks like the talon of dreads is possible in Orbital Strike - a theme I could get along with!  My roster editor gives me no way to add pods to a Leviathan though?

[Chaeron]

As for order of what to drop, I'm not the gamer to answer that one.  At a guess - I wouldn't want to drop the Levi in a single Levi list on first turn as it's sure to receive all incoming fire, probably best to drop a pair together for best chance of one surviving to turn two.  Perhaps drop the Vet Melta squad first turn to pop any transports, then maybe a Vet Plasma squad or Terminators after as mopup?  I'd think to leave at least one tactical squad for any objectives as a later drop.

 

Have you thought about running more Terminators but using the Deepstrike rule instead of more pods, giving you the points back to add in that Vet squad in a pod or Contemptor(s)?

 

Looks like the talon of dreads is possible in Orbital Strike - a theme I could get along with!  My roster editor gives me no way to add pods to a Leviathan though?

 

Hmm, it's definitely a difficult decision - and potentially situational depending on the opponent and the Legion being faced. I suppose there's the fear factor of it coming down first turn, versus it still being ready to deploy - and perhaps as good a distraction as any from a larger Deathstar unit. It would at least give two things that my opponent would really need to concentrate their fire on, and hopefully with two (or so) other immediate threats too, it might make those sorts of decisions difficult. I think longer term, that second Leviathan and Pod would be a nice investment, especially if this list went to 3.5k or 4k (as otherwise, we're looking at quite an investment points-wise).

 

I think I'm getting more sold on the Veteran squad with Melta-weaponry with these suggestions too: I really like the thought of them being a quick insertion force, although wary that armoured ceramite will probably need to be avoided. I'll definitely need two Tactical Squads (for compulsory force organisation purposes), but assuming that these are later backfield options, it's just seeing whether I can stretch from having seven pods, to say nine, to really benefit from the number of them that I can drop on that first turn. 

 

I hadn't thought about the Deep Strike option (although I suppose in thinking about Fire Raptors etc. I should have!), and that could definitely be a good option. I wouldn't save huge amounts of points, but as you say - it could be a useful way to shift things around. I'll have a play with the list and see whether it's possible (although the loss of the pods in terms of that initial deployment is something to bear in mind). Equally, a Dread-heavy Orbital Assault list would be visually stunning - although, I would be concerned with regards to scoring! 

 

Thanks again for the thoughts on this front - I'll take this all into consideration and draft a couple of possibilities for further feedback!

[MrFlutterPie]

i wanted to run something by you guys. I play the Reaping and as such I am limited by my mobility because of the ROW rules. Is there anything stopping me from taking an allied SOH detachment with the orbital Strike ROW?   The Reaping allows allied detachments and the DS limitations is only for models and units in a detachment using that ROW. Since the SOH are in a separate detachment they are not bound by the Reaping limitations. 

 

Not looking to add a ton of SOH in just Mal, 2 vet squads and a dredd in pods to distract my opponent while my DG gun line gets to work. 

[LtDan]

Nope your all good. I'm adding nightlords terror assualt as my allies to add some speed

[LtDan]

Tho mobility isn't a problem with the reaping. Vets are non com troops too(sniper=outflank), or bikes/jetbikes or assualt marines. No dangerous terrain checks

[Charlo]

Nope your all good. I'm adding nightlords terror assualt as my allies to add some speed

Aye NL and DG play nice for some reason. It's just tough that your enemy gets cover for the first turn.

[LtDan]

Well morty and curze were good mates and there legions complement each other well

[Charlo]

With the Dark Angels delayed and not likely to be here for at least two years, I'm looking to maybe paint up 1000pts for a ZM campaign and make use of the DG models that have been sitting around doing nothing for ages.

 

I have:

• 10 man MlV squad with Bolters + Chainswords
• 5 Man Missile Squad
• 5 Grave Wardens
• 5 Deathshroud
• Contemptor (two fists / MM / Kheres available)
• Parts to make pretty much any character
• A load of MkIII I can turn into most units.

NOW here is the kicker, the warlord must be permanent throughout the campaign and will suffer from Permadeath, so I'd like to make something sturdy. We can also choose the Warlord Trait. I'm thinking a Preator, bells & whistles, either TH or Paragon Blade then it's a choice between World Burner (S6 shredding Heavy Flamers), Void Walker (Deep Strike Grave Wardens) or Child of Terra (a little more situational).

 

In terms of Rite of War, Pride of the Legion seems like the obvious choice to stop the "tax" of a Tactical squad, though with some conversion I could make some breachers for a ZM Assault Force - however they are a large investment and more just a roadblock than anything else (maybe a trap for any stray walkers with Meltabombs...)

 

What do people recommend?

[LtDan]

Pride.

Vets and shroud as your troops(get some heavy flamers in there and outflank)

World burner will be great. Works with most the units. Shroud, wardens, and flamer.

It take a praetor. Paragon blade, digital lasers. Iron halo. Tartarus. And go with shroud as quicker.

[Charlo]

It'll be strictly Zone Mortalis at 1000points - can you outflank in ZM?

 

What about a Fist/ Chainfist/ Double Melta Contemptor? Expensive but very powerful methinks, covers anti-vehicle nicely. I do have a Grav/ Drill Leviathan but he might be too eggs in one basket.

 

I thought about a Fist or Hammer for the Preator for Instant Death. Paragon is nice at initiative but knocking out the opponent with one failed save seems strong too, especially in a challenge or something.

 

Tartaros could be useful, maybe I run the Preator with the Deathshroud to eat challenges instead of the wardens as planned. Also lets me Sweeping Advance...