New Militarum Tempestus Army Word Vomit

[Master Antaeus]

Warning: this post poorly-structured and sprawling.

I just finished organizing all of my minis and have discovered that I accidentally have around 40 of the old kasrkin and a handful of the old stormtroopers, among them a mix of special weapons.

This is a happy accident!

I'm want to create a Storm Trooper Regiment (in the old IG style, not this pseudo-space marine crap in the MT codex). I shall call them the 808th Drakeholm Fusiliers, led by Primus Lanzo 'The Marauder' Mogridge (Tempestor Prime) and his top NCO, Tertius Bartholomew Haymaker (also a Tempestor Prime). I figure Schola Progenium recruits are mostly orphans, which explains why commissars have such fitting names (Gaunt, Hawk, Hark, etc).

To this end, I have some questions:

1. This army desperately needs some heavy armor punch, I want to ally some IG without being stuck grappling with a bunch of guardsmen who need babysitting. I might go Vets in Chimeras, but I'd really rather not. I have looked in IA I (revised) and Siege of Vraks III, both have rules for an armored battlegroup that sounds exactly like what I'm looking for, but neither supports hull points and both look really out of date. Can anyone tell me which of these is the most up-to-date/least likely to get me thrown out of a game.

2. Am I a head if I put an inquisitor in both command squads and call them interrogators? I want divination to augment my boys and I *could* take Primaris psykers from my allied AM, but for 5 points more, I get a guy with a better armor save, another wound, better WS, BS and leadership.

3. Can I use a Vulture (with TL Punisher, WAAAGH!) in an MT army? Sounds SO fluffy with all of the Valks, but a lot of people I'm asking are saying no because MT is not AM. I am inclined to agree, but I thought I would put it before the community anyway. (Vulture says it's a Heavy choice for an IG (not even AM) army.

4. If I can't use a Vulture with MT, can I use it along with my AM allies if I include a Tank Commander and his tanks as my compulsory allied HQ? That seems tantamount to cheating (though I've been playing over a decade, I'm fairly new to 7th, is this normal?).

5. If I throw in an Officio Assassinorum Operative, I will be pulling from 4 separate codices. Is this fairly common in freewheeling 7th edition? If so, should I take a Vindicare to help in popping tanks, or a Callidus/Eversor to support my boys in combat?

6. For that matter, I could load up some chimeras full of warrior acolytes with carapace armor and hellguns and call them trainees. Viable?

What I've got:

Kasrkin Sergeant: 4

KK with hellgun: 26

KK with Plasmagun: 3

KK with Meltagun: 3

KK with Flamer: 1

KK with Grenade Launcher: 1 (I'd like to plug an obliterator assault cannon barrel (s) into the front of this and call it a first generation volleygun. Objections?

Stormtrooper Sergeant: 1

ST with Hellgun: 5

ST with Plasma: 2

ST with Melta: 2

3 Valks (mostly in pieces from my last move, can be converted to vendettas easily)

6 Chimeras

1 Vulture (unarmed currently, but soon to have some gundam-scale gattling guns, WAAAGH!)

2 LR Battle Tanks

2 LR Demolishers

1 LR Vanquisher

1 LR Punisher

2 Manticores

Plenty of inquisitors of various sorts along with a healthy number of acolytes. I would be open to using these to screen my tanks/tauroxes/tauroxi/space latin trucks

Hordes of IG that would rather not employ.

I will be proxying chimeras as Taurox for a few games and if I like them, I may get one or two.

I will most likely be getting an MT squad to make sergeants/specialists as having 4 of the same Kasrkin strikes me as very boring.

[steellegionnaire85]

Convert some sergeants to make yours all look individualized. It's not as hard as you think to convert metal models. I have done so with my steel legion. If you want to run such a force, I would use the guard as my primary. This way you have have access to more tanks and artillery. Also relics and such. Then use a formation of mt. My opinion, and advice. If you want that elite feel with heavy armour that is the best way to accomplish such. Not to mention the formations are awesome.

[Altasmurf]

Your other option is the steel host formation from sanctus reach. I believe it's 3 leman Russ and a hydra. As for number of books it's getting pretty common to use multiple codexes.

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the Guard, or rather the Stormtroopers :D Here are my answers to your questions:

 

1. The Armoured list is old but still valid, so you can use that. Like anything it depends on your opponent, some can be funny about FW lists etc. You could always go unbound if you were worried as that lets you include whatever you like.

 

2. Perfectly fine and opens up cool fluff and modelling opportunities!

 

3. The MT codex is not the Guard one so it's not a valid model for them. Again unbound ignores this.

 

4. Of course, the HQ unit(s) for your Guard army have no effect on the choices you can make for the list. Following the rules isn't cheating last I checked ;)

 

5. This is how 7th is designed to work, take your allies, supplements, formations and forge the list you like. There's also unbound again which says "take whatever"!

 

6. Henchmen are quite flexible but unfortunately get expensive when you start loading acolytes with upgrades so while it'll work it won't be the best use of points.

 

 

As mentioned formations might be a good way to add things like armour to your army, but that's assuming you can find one that suits you. Like Alta said the Steel Host might be for you. Are your models painted, or will you be creating a new colour scheme for them?

[Master Antaeus]

A few are unpainted. Some are painted in my IG urban camo scheme of shadow grey fatigues with red trim and astronomican grey armor with pallid flesh highlights; bright red eye lenses all around.

I had never heard of the Steel Host, and I will probably use it at higher points values. I have the top half of a Macross Radar X destroid somewhere I can park on top of a chimera to make it into a Hydra. The rest of the Steel Host is pricey points-wise, though it will probably be used at 2000.

Is Battle-Forged that big a deal? I know it's different based on meta, but if I just pulled my finger out of my and did unbound, I'd probably have a lot fewer worries. Of course, it's nice to be able to say it's Battle Forged.

Based on all I've read here, I think I'm going to switch to AM as primary det, take minimal troops and then load up on 2 separate allied dets (since I was going to do the MT command squad twice anyway) with MT troops that have MT orders AND objective secured. I get to field my inquisitors, ministorum priests in the unit (at high points), I get my tanks AND I get my vulture; all battle-forged. Sigh.

All to play 600 points of IG and over 1000 points of MT. What would be interesting is a combined forces of the Imperium codex that has all of this in it.

When did list writing become such a dramatic escapade?

[WarriorFish]

Battle forged is good as it gives tangible benefits, mostly in taking objectives. I find it also helps you focus on the list building aspect to forge something more coherent and effective, as working within limits can help you be more creative sometimes. Unbound is a lot easier as you'd expect though, the freedom saves a lot of bother when trying to mix and match things :)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Since you are running all things that come out of the AM codex, you can take just one detachment. The Stormtroopers(MT Scions) can be taken in a platoon, which can be as minimal as a single 5 man squad, to a hand full of 10 man squads and a command squad. You still have the two troop slot tax, but some melta vets in chimeras wouldn't be a bad addition. In addition it gives you access to the full AM toy box. Valkyries, Vendettas, and Sentinels for FA, Vultures, Hydras, Basilisks, Medusas and Leman Russes for HS. Like I said, full toy box. You can even get Ogryns/Bulgryns, in your elites, or load up on Militarum tempestus platoons as the bulk of your army.

 

Or you can go the way I did with Allies, and use a Combined arms Detachment of Stormtroopers, and then use an Allied detachment of AM (I like FW's Elysian drop troops). With the Elysians you can get Vendettas for 130pts base, and a Valkyrie for a dedicated transport for 100pts base. It also gives you access to the Vulture, and all the other Imperial Navy toys. In addition their rules are really fun, Combat drop lets you bring on half of your Valks, Drop Sentinels, and sentry turrets first turn.

 

The combinations are infinite. Combined Arms and Allied Detachments give you objective secured (troops and their dedicated transports hold objectives, unless there are other troops present). In the configuration I run, I only have 1 FA slot (a Vendetta), 2 HQ slots (1 CAD, 1 AD), and the rest are all troops. I usually stick a Knight and a vindicare assassin in there to bring it up around 1850 pts, since I'm limited in models for AM. For Now they're capped there, if I need more points I'll ally in my DA. 

 

They can be really fun to play, the transports they get aren't bad either, the Taurox prime is the only one available to the MT codex, but if you run out of the AM codex you can give them a Chimera. 

 

Personally I like the orders in the MT codex, over the AM orders, since they're constructed specifically for the MT's and their strengths. You'll find that running pure MT is a bit of a glass cannon, they hit hard, but they can very fragile, so they work very well with allies. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Also, I think that it would be hilarious to see a defender torso perched atop a chimera chassis, provide you get them scaled right. 

[Master Antaeus]

I thought about Elysians, Knights and an armored company. What book has the Elysians? What book has the armored battlegroup with the special vanquishers?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The Elysians are out of Imperial Armor Volume 3, second edition has the most current rules for them. The knight gives them some heavy firepower, and can serve to be a good source of anti-armor depending on what knight you use. I particularly like the Paladin, because of it's range and AP3, since most of my opponents are marines. 

 

What I hope to do, is eventually field my allied detachment of Elysians (commissar, melta vets w/valkyrie, and a vendetta, I want to add 3 Drop sentinels, sentry turrets, and a second Vendetta), my primary detachment (I want to get my squads up to 2 10 man units and one 6 man melta squad), and a Baneblade chassis. I also want to include the steel host for my armor, and some extra anti air. 

 

Maybe you get some Ideas from this.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Also look into IA4 Second Ed. It has D-99 Elysians and lets you use a Vulture in Heavy Support. So you might try that though the models are expensive points wise. Anyway might help your problem with the Vulture. Bad news is no tanks in that book so you would have to use allies but that's the name of the game in 7th.

[Myrkul]

Ill refer you to this for Vultures.

 

http://cadiascreed40k.blogspot.com/2014/11/militarum-tempestus-forge-world.html?m=1

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Regular elysians are fun, everyone harps on the D-99, but it has some rules that hurt it if you're not playing against 'nids.

[Inquisitor Fox]

 

 

3. The MT codex is not the Guard one so it's not a valid model for them. Again unbound ignores this.

 

 

 

My research so far actually contradicts this, and says to treat C:MT like C:AM as far as Forge World was concerned.  I'll send them an email to clarify and cross my fingers ;)  I'll keep ya posted.

 

As I'm working on a combination of C:MT and C:=][= myself it was something I've been trying to check on, as the Vulture is absolutely sweet and fits the theme of what I'm going for perfectly.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Any LoW that can be taken with AM can be taken with MT, so why wouldn't it be the same for Forgeworld?

[WarriorFish]

They're separate codices, so the name and links between the two doesn't lead to any cross over as they're as functionally different as Chaos and Eldar. So you'd need special rules to say this isn't the case, ideally in the form of errata or an FAQ!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I suppose, but all of the units found in C:MT are also found in C:AM, so really it seems counter intuitive that you can't have FW with MT. Easy way around it for now is just take a CAD of AM, and go heavy on the Stormtroopers in your elites slots take as many MT Platoons as you can, and support them with 2 vet squads as your troops choice. That'll get you the whole AM toybox.

[WarriorFish]

The rules don't have to be intuitive, and frequently aren't :lol: As you said allying gives many benefits so it's not a big problem :)

[Kontakt]

GW has said that any AM unit from forgeworld is available for use by the MT, though I cannot remember where I read that and it didn't mention the word "battleforged" at any time.

[WarriorFish]

We're going to need something a bit more concrete than that :P My bet would be checking FW rules as that's where it is most likely to be, so either the unit entries and books themselves or later FAQs.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Heh, y'all will get a kick out of this.  The official Forge World answer is "We don't know."

 

 

 

There is no firm yes or no to your question as we do not currently have a specific list of what you can and cannot include in your force. What we can say is that our Imperial Armour books are supplement codex and are intended to work along side the main force codex and not their supplements such as the Tempestus codex.

 

So um, yay?  Down to the normal way of checking with everyone involved and see if anyone has a serious objection, or dice off or something.

[WarriorFish]

That's a bit odd, but essentially their answer is a no then...

[Inquisitor Fox]

There was a bit more and extended thing but I agree, it did seem a bit odd for the official answer to be "Good question, no idea!"  Honestly how much effort is a pdf FAW word document?  But whatever... I'm used to playing armies with little to no official support because they're not the mainstream ones :)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I don't really use forgeworld much (except the rules that I can use any model with), so It's not a huge deal to me. It does suck though that Forgeworld has essentially said "we don't know, and we don't care..." I don't understand why supplements wouldn't be able to use the same arsenal as the main book though, it seems silly that, "Oh, your Astra Militarum? Ok, here's all the fun forgeworld stuff. But then turn around and say Oh, you're Militarum Tempestus? NO FORGEWORLD FOR YOU!" But I guess that's what you get when your two wholly owned subsidiaries who make products for the same game, hate each other and don't communicate.

[WarriorFish]

Surely the proper response would be "we've not officially said actually, we will get right on that". A .pdf with an explanation or updates to an FAQ is surely not much work?