vahouth Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 If the rumours are true about the new Eldar jetbikes that they can all be armed with scatter lasers s6 ap6 heavy4, how do you plan to deal with the odd 4 10man squads with 160 s6 shots per shooting phase? So far the stats for the bikes remain the same, so bs4 s3 t4 3+ save, with jink etc. and 40 of them are about 1100 pts in total, with plenty of room for some d weapons in the list as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiation Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Duck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 Lol How exactly? :P Math says they kill 30 MEQs on average per shooting phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sans Mercy Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Sicaran battle tank would be great to quickly thin their numbers, but It's no silver bullet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 How many jinking bikes can the sicaran kill per turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Sicaran battle tank would be great to quickly thin their numbers, but It's no silver bullet . Sicaran ignores jink. But it's only AP4 (rending) so it's not like the 3+ armour save Eldar bikes would bother jinking anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I doubt you'll face that many bikes very often. They have a reasonable monetary investment ($500+ for that many bikes), have a huge footprint, and every kill is a marked decrease in firepower. Force them to jink with AP1-3 stuff and they'll lose 75% of their firepower for a turn. Blood Angel's plethora of jump infantry, Fast vehicles and drop pods should help remedy the bike's superior manoeuvrability somewhat. They're also very susceptible to morale checks, as they're only Leadership 8 and run away 3d6". Force that 25% casualties by killing 2-3 models and they may very well run off the table, especially if they're holding back to their own table edge. Fear of the Darkness is pretty sweet against them for that reason too. Play to the objectives. If they want to make use that ObSec of theirs, they'll have to come close. If you can catch them in assault, they're dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 They do have a big footprint, but they will be erasing whole units every turn. If they're properly screened with decent combat units (Wraithguard or Harlequins with IC support) assaulting them won't be that easy. MSU is definitely the best approach to dealing with them (force them to overkill with their scatter lasers), as is trying to make them jink before moving onto the next bike squad to try and force them to jink as well. Unfortunately we don't have much to 'force' them to jink. Best bet are vindi blasts. Triple vindi would give this bike list a bit of a headache, supported by our own bike units that can rush forward and threaten to get into combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 How would a drop list work against them? Also keep in mind that the bikes can be supported by fire prism squadrons for s10 blasts, or even D Wraithguard/ Knight. How do you deal with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Bikes are pretty sturdy, and consequently are difficult to alpha strike against. My melta/cleansing flame drops can absolutely wreck Eldar/Dark Eldar armies, but not the ones saturating 3+ armour saves. If you're going to pod on eldar bikes, you want to be dropping units that can force jinks and also beat them in combat. A command squad and/or sternguard drop would do ok, as melta/plasma will definitely make those bikes want to jink. Things like Fragiosos are also OK, but will die to scatter lasers on their side armour, and that's assuming the Eldar don't have better anti-tank weapons. Fragiosos also won't force jinks despite their rending frag cannons. Fear the darkness would be a good way to erase an expensive unit with little effort. Also, due to clumping that might occur, disorderly charges are a huge asset. Hit and run is great for setting up disorderly charges, which makes Dante (or Cypher) potentially good choices as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 The thing to watch out for if you want to take vindicators is invisibility. Personally I would rather take a mix of meltacide drop squads, multimelta attack bikes and a sicaran or three, one with the 'schism of mars' legacy of glory. More options, more angles covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Invisibility is only an issue on deathstars. Against 3 units of 10 bikes, you just aim the Vindis at the ones that aren't invisible. Also, Sicarans are not exceptional in this situation. Yeah, they might kill a couple of bikes each per turn, but so does a devastator squad with heavy bolters. Does this make them good? Furthermore, not everyone allows Imperial Armour stuff in their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I would take a knight Acheron and drown as many bikes as possible under a Hellstorm AP3 Flamer. or Take a Typhon for a 10" S10 Ap1 Ignores Cover blast on an Av14/14/14 6Hp SH. But thats just me. Otherwise, focus on forcing as many unfavorable morale checks as possible. They only need to fail one and run 3D6 to be effectively out of the fight; especially if they run off the board. You don't necessarily need to wipe the whole unit to take it out. Theres also CC. If you can somehow get into CC rather intact (a daunting prospect, I know) you should make it out fine enough since they are only MEQ with their bikes (unlike 30k Legion Jetbikes which make them TEQ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Min-sized gravbikes in a Flesh Tearers det would be my best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4uCupCake Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Knight Acheron, Baal Preds with flamer, Sicarans, or a Allied detachment of IG with... Nova eradicators I believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 1. wait for the codex to come out. 2. read it. 3. look at what lists people come up with. 4. Adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 1. wait for the codex to come out. 2. read it. 3. look at what lists people come up with. 4. Adapt. BUT THE SKY IS FALLING! Eldar have always been able to put out a disgusting amount of S6 firepower. The 180pts for 24 shots a squadron of war walkers got is hardly different , and that wasn't game breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 1. wait for the codex to come out. 2. read it. 3. look at what lists people come up with. 4. Adapt. BUT THE SKY IS FALLING! Eldar have always been able to put out a disgusting amount of S6 firepower. The 180pts for 24 shots a squadron of war walkers got is hardly different , and that wasn't game breaking. True, but war walkers aren't as mobile and are a lot easier to deal with being light vehicles. Like people have said MSU is the best bet here and assault if you can make it there will eat these guys alive. I'd wager a single Death Company with a power sword will mulch most of a unit and take what they give back at him. MATH HAMMER: 5 attacks on charge from DC, 3 hits Average, 2 or 3 deaths normally. Lets say they haven't lost anything and they give 10 attacks back, 5 hit, 2, 3 wound then you still have to fail a 3+/ 5+FNP. Make that just two DC and then suddenly it's even better prospects. /MATH HAMMER! I'd also say that not many people are going to be running multiple units of 10 jet bikes as they cost £83.30 a unit, which is pretty steep to me at least! If not an alternative is use our trusty Veritas Vitae tactic and hope for some infiltrate so we could get some big Infiltrating units of DC on the board for an easy early charge. or laugh maniacally as you pin one of his 10 man units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Charlo, there's something wrong with your math hammer. 5x0.5x0.66= 1 or 2 dead bikes, and that's for power weapons. With just cc weapons it's barelly one bike dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was just quick hammer giving us the benefit of optimism to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I'd wager a single Death Company with a power sword will mulch most of a unit and take what they give back at him. That's all you'll have left after the 40 overwatch shots ;) Bear in mind that to unlock the decurion equivalent bonuses, they need to spend a lot of points on other stuff, which limits the amount of jetbike spam you'll see. The compulsory warlock coven in the windrider host will be a big point sink at 50+pts/model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 I'd wager a single Death Company with a power sword will mulch most of a unit and take what they give back at him. That's all you'll have left after the 40 overwatch shots ;) Bear in mind that to unlock the decurion equivalent bonuses, they need to spend a lot of points on other stuff, which limits the amount of jetbike spam you'll see. The compulsory warlock coven in the windrider host will be a big point sink at 50+pts/model But the Eldar player still has almost 700 points to spend after the 40 bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 810 if he equips everything with a weapon. Frankly, bikes are not that scary in my eyes. They are only slightly better on the offensive than a Serpent and much weaker on the defence. SG + SP will tank a lot of S6. People cry about WG but forget that they only have 12" range. WK is the one thing that really scares me to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I feel bad for Eldar, people are going to be to salty playing vs them. They will hard counter a lot of lists and soft counter the rest. Still too early to be certain, but they have the best dakka unit in the game and a lot of d weapons vs expensive units. Considering they have a 48" threat range? they kan zone and kill so many armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Flamer/Frag Furioso's in a turn one drop-pod slaughterfest. 2x Fragios dropping turn one should cause enough damage to neuter the worst of any unit of jetbikes. I guess even a Flamer-centic tacsquad could do similar damage too. Hey,why not take a Flamestorm-Baal Pred?;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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