Remtek Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 They can either deploy several ways to avoid fragioso dmg or just reserve them. It's gonna be tough to get a shot off with flamestorm Baal considering the side armor 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 They can either deploy several ways to avoid fragioso dmg or just reserve them. It's gonna be tough to get a shot off with flamestorm Baal considering the side armor 11. Yeah, I was kiddinging about the Baal, Ain't nobody got a use for that. If your opponent takes his bikes in reserves, you just drop whatever you have in your other drop-pods turn one, then send your Fragios screaming in turn 2. Like others have said, there really is no perfect answer for such a stupidly versitlie unit, but there are somethings we can do to ease the blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think that assault is the key as they are weakest here (overwatch aside). I know that catching a mobile unit is not the easiest job to accomplish but there is a finite board space and if you have several units in pursuit, the Eldar player will eventually run out of places to run. Failing that, spread the AP3+ shooting around and force as many units as possible to Jink as it will hurt their shooting almost as much as each jetbike lost. A Knight Paladin is a not a bad option as 2 battlecannon shots a turn will definitely hurt large jetbike units or force a jink. With a front AV13 he will have nothing to worry about from scatter lasers and can move fast enough to have chance of charging them too. Then you just have to work out how to protect him from the D-weapons that will be rocking with the bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Because the Baal will not reach them Jetbikes in time. Remember, it has to be within 8" to do damage. Jetbikes move as fast as the Baal, can boost 36" or make the 2D6 chicken move in the assault phase. You either need long ranged dakka like the Sicaran or instant gap closers like Pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What really makes Eldar broken is that pretty much anything that can counter their bikes is countered by their S D shooting, and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I thought suggesting the Flamer-Baal would have been so silly people would know I was kidding. My bad. >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Seems like our best bet is to bring 60-70 obsec scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I thought suggesting the Flamer-Baal would have been so silly people would know I was kidding. My bad. >_< Heh, my bad. It sounded credible given that the weapon technically can kill them. Besides, I was in my 'tactical analysis mode', which usually comes at the cost of humour :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What's everyone worrying about? There still more then twice the price of a space marine , with the scatter laser upgrade. Force them to roll armour saves or junk saves, and they will run of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What's everyone worrying about? There still more then twice the price of a space marine , with the scatter laser upgrade. Force them to roll armour saves or junk saves, and they will run of the board. My words exactly. 5 dudes cost the same as a 6ed Serpent and gets out comparable fire but far reduced survivability. They are super weak to alpha strike, something that SM do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I know. Your looking at around 300 points for a unit of 10 once you add in scatter lasers and a warlock, add in the fact that 10 of them in one unit is far to big to move around. People will probably only take around 5-7 due to those 2 factors. So really your looking at killing 5-7 wounds, it's not that hard. hordes of guardians, blade storming your marines will kill just as many, are cheaper and harder to kill but no one is worried about them , throw in an avatar and there fearless aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Will be easier when the Codex is out to see what kind of force mult they get. There is also the all the ranged D, which is currently banned in the ITC tournament format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What's everyone worrying about? There still more then twice the price of a space marine , with the scatter laser upgrade. Force them to roll armour saves or junk saves, and they will run of the board. My words exactly. 5 dudes cost the same as a 6ed Serpent and gets out comparable fire but far reduced survivability. They are super weak to alpha strike, something that SM do best. That really is the most comforting thing about the new codex - no matter what they field, it will have less damage output, flexibility and survivability than those damned serpents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Will be easier when the Codex is out to see what kind of force mult they get. There is also the all the ranged D, which is currently banned in the ITC tournament format. not worried about Eldar D, if Eldar players are going to spam d stuff and jet bikes there army is going to be tiny. They want have a model under 25 points and it's not like there's a ton of multi wound stuff in any marine dex, so who really cares about d weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Flamer/Frag Furioso's in a turn one drop-pod slaughterfest. 2x Fragios dropping turn one should cause enough damage to neuter the worst of any unit of jetbikes. I guess even a Flamer-centic tacsquad could do similar damage too. Hey,why not take a Flamestorm-Baal Pred?;) I may be missing the point, but how exactly is a dropped fragrioso with flamer, something that could neuter them? They're still 3+ AS.Also, yes, 5 of them are comparable in firepower with the current WS, but I'm talking about lists that have 40 of them. Imagine people a list with 8 serpents! :P All in all, IMHO, I feel like 2 Scatter lasers per 5 bikes would be more than enough so that people wouldn't cry Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The only Eldar D I am worried about is the WK due to its range. WG do not worry me as they will be shooting T2 at best. And outside of their transport they are slow. If you manage to de-mech them early, you bought yourself a good chunk of time. De-meching Eldar is what a Sicaran does best. You also have to remember that a unit of 5 WG in a Serpent costs 300pts. 350 with Scythes (point changes are already included). This will get very expensive very quickly. And you also have to consider that footdar may see a return as well.as Biel-tan due to better internal balance. So no, the sky is staying up there ;) And besides. Imperium still has the best D. Sisters of Battle. I mean, every sister is bringing two of them. Praise the Emperor :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Can't they webway portal them in? Ranged D won't really affect the lists i bring anyways, but i image people playing knights or similar will be upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Can't they webway portal them in? Ranged D won't really affect the lists i bring anyways, but i image people playing knights or similar will be upset. Then they still will only arrived T2 at best. Later if they flunk reserve rolls. It also gives you less targets and more opportunity to alpha strike the ever-living feth out of the army. There is also a way to save your Super-Heavies against them. I am working for a tactica against the new Eldar for the SW sub-forum. It will have plenty of general info though. Something that might interest the occasional player ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'd imagine the str 6 is annoying for 3++ puppies, but yeah i agree sky i not falling.. :) Just not a fan of books that promote spamming one unit type, but that is yet to be seen. Formations and detachments might promote diverse list builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The sky ain't falling. But the Sky Warriors are. In pods. Onto squishy Eldar heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'd imagine the str 6 is annoying for 3++ puppies, but yeah i agree sky i not falling.. Just not a fan of books that promote spamming one unit type, but that is yet to be seen. Formations and detachments might promote diverse list builds. The necron and eldar codex probably have the best internal balance ever! :) there are so many strong army concepts, it is really amazing. The only thing I am mad about it is that our codex did arrive just before necrons and has so many subpar units it's not even fun.. what I would give to have a codex like that :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think that GW supports the view that the Imperium gains their strength through allies. Given our universal BB status, we might as well all be in one giant book titled: 'Codex: Manly Dudes and Chicks with double D'. Xenos must usually make due on their own. They have it more convenient since everything is in one book, but when everything is taken together, we have infinitely more options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think that GW supports the view that the Imperium gains their strength through allies. Given our universal BB status, we might as well all be in one giant book titled: 'Codex: Manly Dudes and Chicks with double D'. Xenos must usually make due on their own. They have it more convenient since everything is in one book, but when everything is taken together, we have infinitely more options. I think this is the truth these days, while I will never ally in some guard except if I was playing SW (should really have that tank named for thier Dad afterall...) all the other options are really interesting; Assassins, Mechanicum, Inquisition, other Chapters, Grey Knights, and Sisters (who are underratedly awesome) it's great! Also, if he brings out the Wraith D, force him to attack your scouts if you can, a wasted turn of shooting! You may even do some damage on the charge with a fist or the like, who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Plasma equipped legion of the damned for jet bikes and drop pod grav centurions for wraiths. Thread over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I actually discourage drop pod Cents. In fact, I discourage the use of expensive units without a suitable defense mechanism against Eldar. Grav Bikes do the job just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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