new HH novel - Deathfire

[depthcharge12]

On a scale of 10 to death by forks, how would you guys rate it?

[Marshal Rohr]

I'd give it 6 and a half death by forks out of 10.

[Scribe]

lol I'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

[depthcharge12]

lol I'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

It's not quite a skinning, but don't get your hopes up, it sure ain't no walk out of an airlock.

[sitnam]

Both this book and VL looked good to me but I get turned off by the dismissals towards Kyme that these threads reveal. I liked Feat of Iron and Forgotten Sons well enough, though his Salamanders love showed up a bit too much in both of those stories

[The Red Thirst]

.... we need more good Heresy im starting to lose it over here

[Balthamal]

Kyme's writing style didn't grate on me nearly as much in Deathfire compared to Vulkan Lives and in fairness some of his other stuff is very good like the aforementioned Forgotten Sons. I'm just trying to decide whether some of the motivations and actions of the characters fall on the right side of believable. That's probably the most frustrating thing when I read any of his work: that there are characters who are excellently developed and nuanced enough to be really engaging and others are caricatures in comparison. 

 

Like I said, I'll give a second read through and make up my mind. From the initial one though, I'd score it a 7, if only for actually taking us forwards and not another rehash of Istvaan V

[Perrin]

Can anyone give a brief summary of the story plz?

[Atia]

to have it here too :)

[Reyner]

Is that meant to be Guilliman, Sanguinius and the Lion? Nice. 

[Atia]

Is that meant to be Guilliman, Sanguinius and the Lion? Nice. 

yep :P

[Icarus1138]

Having read it, it's better than Vulkan Lives but it's not great.

 

It's essentially the story of Numeon and his band of fellow survivors taking Vulkan's body back to Nocturne, in the belief that on their home world Vulkan will come back to life. Along the way a couple traitor Captains are seeking to stop them for their own reasons. Most of the book consists of the Salamanders dealing with grief, faith in the miraculous, skepticism about that faith, and the difficulties of traveling through the Ruinstorm while occasionally being boarded by Word Bearers and Death Guard.

 

First, the pros. I liked that the emotional impact of a Primarch's death and the fall of the Imperial Truth was explored. Having Numeon as the Primarch's equerry dealing with that makes sense. I also think Kyme made an effort to differentiate the personalities of the various Salamanders. We have the practical, stereotypical Sally in Sergeant Zytos, a logical and aloof Zonn, an angry and bloodthirsty Xathen and so on. The Shipmaster Adyssian had his own thing in the story as well. There were some interesting depictions of a demonic attack I quite liked. Finally, I like that the FW books clearly had an influence on what Kyme included.

 

What didn't I like? To start with, I think a lot of the basic plot was glossed over too much. Numeon and crew come to believe a specific set of actions will bring Vulkan back, but it's never well explained where they're getting this from. There's passing mention of a prophecy that's never explained, some looking into a fire with nothing seen, and suddenly Numeon has got it all figured out. It's very abrupt. Another annoyance was the absolute cookie-cutter depictions of the villains. Each bad guy has two or three words that could describe them, and they never deviate from that. There's the Word Bearer that wants occult power and is called The Preacher. His second in command is so personally offended by a Word Bearer exile that his entire motivation in a galaxy-spanning war seems to be killing a random sergeant that I'm assuming he used to serve with? Finally there's a Death Guard Captain that wants Vulkan's head and will rely on a gravelly voice, poor social skills, and the tactical genius of Zapp Brannigan to get it.

 

Many of the characters were a bit underwhelming to be honest. Numeon is an equerry and Legion Master (in fact, not name) yet he lacks the presence and sense of command appropriate to that position. He's definitely no Sigismund, Sevetar, Luthor, or Gage. His interactions with Aeonid Thiel make them seem like they are peers. The scenes with the Primarchs were also a bit of a letdown. I think my point is Kyme genuinely had some good ideas and a plan, but the pacing and quality of writing and characterization fell short of doing his ideas justice. This is not a problem unique to Kyme in the HH series by any means, I've seen worse. But when you consider what has been done with the Night Lords, Word Bearers, White Scars and so on it's a little disappointing to see a Legion's opportunity to be revitalized and described in a new way passed by.

 

Also, what was up with the Salamanders Librarian having "blazing azure eyes"?

[Daemon2027]

It sounds like this could have been better as a full on novel, giving the author time to develop motivations and the characters to a greater point. Really sounds like this novel had some potential.

[The Red Thirst]

to have it here too

The Lion has a twirly mustache....

And Sanguinius has Cleopatra hair....

Not sure how to feel

On Topic - if what Icarus said above is true, then I most likely wont be getting this one, cant stand cookie-cutter bad guys

[Lord Tharand]

I picked it up over the weekend but not finished yet.  I'll avoid giving my full thoughts on the book until I'm finished.  My general opinion so far is that it's Lord of the Rings in space. :P

[Jared van Kell]

As Nick Kyme mentioned in his write up at the end, this book is about grief.

Numeon is not quite with it in this book because quite frankly he is not himself. Throughout Vulkan Lives he held onto the belief that his gene father and master, an individual who he, as captain of the Pyre Guard, was sworn to protect. He saw Vulkan's death as his own personal failure and he is now feeling a profound and very personal mixture of grief and loss. Anyone who has lost a loved one will have some understand of how that feels.

Numeon bounces between the five stages of grief (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance) as he mourns the loss of his Primarch whilst still trying to lead the 65 Salamanders under his command back to Nocturne whilst being chased by enemies who would see this mission fail.

Now Deathfire is the second part of a trilogy with the final book in the pre-planning stages. The final book will likely talk about how the Salamanders as a now, much reduced, legion will take this and more importantly how the other legions will react as they re-enter the overall war effort.

What I am particularly looking forward to seeing is Barthusa Narek embracing his new role and I really do hope that we get to see a lot more of him in future books.

JvK

[Scribe]

Narek you say?

[Icarus1138]

About Narek.

 

Narek is a great example of what I'd like to see more of in HH novels: a chance to play with legion archetypes in a way that's harder to do in 40k, since a 40k chapter has fewer men, mission types, and organizational flexibility.

 

Each Chapter has an identity and unique culture, and is a relatively small group drawing recruits from a culturally homogenous population at a young age. This quite reasonably leads to a good amount of conformity (which is certainly reflected in fiction). A Salamander can be expected to be somewhat compassionate and totally into fire. Iron Hands are bitter, cold, and aloof. Raven Guard keep sneaking everywhere, even when they're just out running errands they're likely repelling through a skylight for whatever reason. 40k novels stick with this to a *very* strong degree, don't get me started on the Space Wolves that wolf in a wolfy fashion, except for when they're Viking-ing.

 

The Heresy setting is a great chance to get away from this less than ideal literary tradition. Barthusa Narek is a Word Bearer that's quite sneaky and is an exceptional shot, combined with an appropriate religious mindset. He reminds me of the sniper in Saving Private Ryan. A sneaky sniper is NOT what most people think of when it comes to the XVIIth Legion but it makes perfect sense! Of course a military force of 200,000 is going to have some crack shots. Combined with his Legion's fanatical aspect he fits right in, and is also pleasingly unique as a character. We need more of this, more characters that would seemingly break with their Legion's "theme" but actually fit right in. Off the top of my head we need characters like

• An Iron Hand sergeant that leads a jetbike squad, when they aren't striking from the sky without warning and disappearing in a flash they're tinkering with their bikes in a constant competition to maximize performance.
• A World Eaters artillery crewman that loves to maximize the casualties he causes. He dislikes fighting in person because compared to his artillery piece a chain axe kills so slowly. It's just inefficient is what it is. 
• A Raven Guard officer that leads a terminator spearhead. He favors quick, overwhelming attacks that batter the enemy to pieces before they strike back. He works very closely with his recon detachment to ensure accurate target assessment and ideal placement for his teleport beacons before engagement, a particular specialty of his.
• I'd better stop before I do this all day.

Narek is a great example of this more interesting type of character, Kyme did well with his depiction.

[Sothalor]

Your Raven Guard Terminator officer could/should be a member of the Deliverers, those remnants of the original Terran members who are actually too bloodthirsty and ruthless for Corax's taste. I would have loved to have gotten a good story about Arkhas Fal, the Legion commander who got displaced by Corax's discovery, and his subsequent "banishment." That dichotomy is something that could have been explored to highlight pre/post-Primarch Legion identities.

[Jared van Kell]

Terran born Raven Guard are a rarity in the Horus Heresy due to the Battle of Gate 42.

JvK

[Marshal Rohr]

Not in the predation fleets that were not present at 42. Corax exiled lots of Terrans in those fleets.

[Mazryonh]

As Nick Kyme mentioned in his write up at the end, this book is about grief.

 

Numeon is not quite with it in this book because quite frankly he is not himself. Throughout Vulkan Lives he held onto the belief that his gene father and master, an individual who he, as captain of the Pyre Guard, was sworn to protect. He saw Vulkan's death as his own personal failure and he is now feeling a profound and very personal mixture of grief and loss. Anyone who has lost a loved one will have some understand of how that feels.

 

Did anyone tell Numeon the truth of what happened to Vulkan?  Does anyone actually know?  Vulkan and his Pyre Guard weren't pulled down by waves of World Eater Berserkers and massed conventional fire from the other Traitor legions, which more bodyguards could have helped against.  Vulkan's unit was annihilated by a nuclear weapon, something not even Vulkan survived (he regenerated thanks to his Perpetual nature, but that's another story).   What does he think he could have done to help Vulkan survive, aside from help to extract surviving Salamanders from a battle that was already lost before the Traitors ever got to grips with the Loyalists on Istvaan?

 

By the way, isn't it already canon that the Salamanders were cut down to less than a Chapter's strength by the time of the Second Founding?  I take it that hasn't happened yet in the HH series, but is there any sign of them "hedging their bets" in a way?  I thought that instead of fighting against overwhelming odds and depleting their numbers further, they would commit a significant portion of their surviving number to making weapons on Nocturne to help their allies.  Something like "Our deaths will not serve the Emperor, but at least we can still aid His cause by supplying his forces with the best weapons outside of Mars.  Vulkan's skill remains with us still."?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

On a scale of 10 to death by forks, how would you guys rate it?

 

I just finished it earlier today.

 

Its certainly better than Damnation, Abyss or Vulkan Lives, but still pretty meh with a side dose of meh.

 

maybe a 5, but frankly much of it seemed like it could fit in standard 40k without losing anything drastic. It lacked the 30k feel of the higher end of the HH series.

 

WLK

[fission]

I would give it a 6.5 on 10.

Notre ADB or Abnett stuff but I think Kyme have improved in thé novel construction.

 

Big problem for me isoler thé lack of charisma of Numeon.

 

One of my new favorite quote : " I dont speak traitor. "

[Lord Tharand]

I finally finished reading 'Deathfire' yesterday.  There were some interesting and fun things about the novel but ultimately I would say it was a disappointment.  Say, "Meh" ultimately sums up how I feel about the book.  I thought what could have been an interesting story through the Ruinstorm turned out to not be at all except for a small portion that I enjoyed.

 

The interesting points for me:

1.  I enjoyed the different personalities of the Salamander characters and how they each deal with Vulcan being "dead".

2.  Creative and slightly horror-like use of daemons in the book

3.  The "ship graveyard" as I will call it.  

 

Things that were "Meh":

1.  Roboute - He seemed so different than in 'Know No Fear' and 'Unremembered Empire'.

2.  The Lion - Again, BL does not give him a consistent personality.  Sure he's "dark" and "plotting" but devoid of much personality.  You wonder how the heck he runs a legion and manages to be one of the brilliant commanders in the Imperium.

3.  Thiel and company - He sure talks a lot of smack for being a sergeant.  I recognize he's a slight badass but it doesn't fit well.

 

Things were just bad:

1.  The Ruinstorm -  just wasn't well thought out or menacing enough to have burned The 500 Worlds to create.

2.  "Vulkan Lives!" - We get the point.  

3.  Patsy bad guys - The Word Bearers, Death Guard, and even daemons just exist i the book to die and are very stereotypical and bland.  The one except in my opinion was Degat and I thought he was kind of neat.

4.  Bad guys are storm troopers - They clearly can't hit anything and if they do manage to hit a Salamander with a bolter or some other weapon it's always on the pauldron or greave and generally causes a minor wound.  The number of times this device was used in the book was a little out of control and breaks the suspension of disbelief.

5.  Magnus - Really?  I thought it role was rather dumb.

 

And lastly:

The resurrection of Vulcan.

 

For me personally, the bad points of this book outweigh the good points.  There were definitely parts that I truly enjoyed and thought were fun or appropriate for the situation.  The book shines when the Salamander characters are talking to each other...until one of them inevitably spouts "Vulcan Lives" and kills it for me.

 

Overall rating: 3.5 out of 10.