Kastelan Maniple Discussion

[Vel'Cona]

While I like the Kastelans (rule and models) overall, I am a bit scared of that points cost.  It smells dangerously of Death Star tactics, which as of this moment aren't really the best choice.  Here's hoping the Formations do a bit to encourage some varied tactics!

[Frater Cornelius]

The Elimination Maniple really appeals to me. One unit of 3 Dudes (2 with full Phosphor loadout, 1 with Fists and Phosphor) and 1-2 Data Smiths, and then two units of 3 tracked dudes. All ignore cover for just around 800-900pts, leaving you around 1k points for Skitters. Sounds good to me.

[Yodhrin]

I'm still not getting the appeal of the powerfist loadout, especially a single one; they can all Smash, is the extra 2 Str from the fists really worth losing 3 TL Blaster shots, considering how situationally it will be of use in a ranged unit?

[Frater Cornelius]

Extra 4 Strength. As I said before. The Kastelans will be target of T5 melee units like TWC, Brutes, Wraiths and so on. This directly counters them. But once again, preference.

[marshall Egregorius]

The main point here is to be aware of the battlefield, and adapt fields of fire accordingly. way of the water warrior, anyone?

[Frater Cornelius]

The main point here is to be aware of the battlefield, and adapt fields of fire accordingly. way of the water warrior, anyone?

 

Can't hear that phrase anymore :D But then again, I prefer pro-active plays. The way of the Knight ;)

[Mr Bill]

SO... I am confused.  Where are the rules?  I know we have leaks everywhere, but are there any official rules for these models or just more GW "send us money... now go forge a narrative"?

[Frater Cornelius]

Today's WD.

[mmimzie]

I think you'll either want a 3rd robo to protect the priest from deep striking high AP weapons that could take him out, or you'll want two unit of these guys so they can cover each other.

 

What's cool is that the head mounted guns can shoot first to drop the cover save then you fire round two with twin linked. These guys help themselves

 

No real anti tank weapons here so the troops or allies will have to bring tank busting that or get the priest into melee...

[Vel'Cona]

I think you'll either want a 3rd robo to protect the priest from deep striking high AP weapons that could take him out, or you'll want two unit of these guys so they can cover each other.

 

What's cool is that the head mounted guns can shoot first to drop the cover save then you fire round two with twin linked. These guys help themselves

 

No real anti tank weapons here so the troops or allies will have to bring tank busting that or get the priest into melee...

 

Don't forget the Datasmith's Gamma Pistol!  S6 AP2 w/ Armourbane is pretty spiffy for tank killing (average 12-14 armor pen roll with +1 to the damage roll).

[mmimzie]

 

I think you'll either want a 3rd robo to protect the priest from deep striking high AP weapons that could take him out, or you'll want two unit of these guys so they can cover each other.

 

What's cool is that the head mounted guns can shoot first to drop the cover save then you fire round two with twin linked. These guys help themselves

 

No real anti tank weapons here so the troops or allies will have to bring tank busting that or get the priest into melee...

 

Don't forget the Datasmith's Gamma Pistol!  S6 AP2 w/ Armourbane is pretty spiffy for tank killing (average 12-14 armor pen roll with +1 to the damage roll).

 

Yeah that is pretty true and i guess worse comes to worse you could just have them walk up to the tank and break it in half over thier knee. 

[d@n]

Extra 4 Strength. As I said before. The Kastelans will be target of T5 melee units like TWC, Brutes, Wraiths and so on. This directly counters them. But once again, preference.

neutron lasers really do mess up these units on large 60mm bases though. It's not hard to cover 2 or 3 models with each template and one failed inv save and that model is gone.

[mmimzie]

 

Extra 4 Strength. As I said before. The Kastelans will be target of T5 melee units like TWC, Brutes, Wraiths and so on. This directly counters them. But once again, preference.

neutron lasers really do mess up these units on large 60mm bases though. It's not hard to cover 2 or 3 models with each template and one failed inv save and that model is gone.

Hey I'm new and don't understand how the rules work. So does str 10 insta death every thing? I figured since they are T7, they could only be insta deathed by D weapons or insta death weapons.

 

Otherwise, they'll get fnp and inv save against a nuetron blast, while only taking one wound per unsaved blast.

 

Last uestion., isn't a blast marker 1.5 inch's in radius and units can be spread with 2 inches between them. Then to target you have to place the whole over a model. I feel you'd only hit one and maybe two with scatter.

 

Haha I'm such a newb

[d@n]

I mean t5 things like wraiths and Thunderwolves get devastated by neutron lasers, not the bots.

[Yodhrin]

Extra 4 Strength. As I said before. The Kastelans will be target of T5 melee units like TWC, Brutes, Wraiths and so on. This directly counters them. But once again, preference.

 

Sorry my mistake, I mean Attacks, not Strength(assuming a situation where you're charging, one extra if you're being charged). Being MCs, without the fists they can attack with Str6 AP2 normally, or each make a single Smash attack at S10 AP2. If you're going all-fists and planning to push them right into combat, sure OK I can see the utility there, but on a unit intended to be ranged dropping one of the TL Blasters for a single extra attack against a charging T5 enemy...I'm just not seeing how that's a good idea.

[Scurvydog]

Considering they are called a kastellan maniple, could that be a clue to them being fielded as a seperate detachment? Like a skitarii maniple being a detachment? In WD 67 they are shown fighting along skitarii forces with just the 2 bots and a smith, which would be strange to show if it won't be possible to just include the base 2 bots + smith alongside the rest of a skitarii army.

[Frater Cornelius]

There is a Formation that includes one big unit of Kastelans, who can all fire independently of the others. That is your queue to a separate detachment.

[mmimzie]

No becuase if they made them a detachment than pretty much any army could take amazing shooting. Would be rather silly that every list would get easy access to 300 of 7-11 ap2 wounds a turn. Skitarri make really easy allies though to my understanding. You jsut need two troop choices and you can add all of skitarri to your list. Though the skitarri never get objective secured, but seeing as how Cult Mech will have HQ and troops Cult mech will offer objective secured, but will also make the army harder to ally because you'll have to get a tech priest domi and troops to ally them.

 

Though that said I'm still super confused about how the whole detachment thing works. From what I've read as long as everyone is in a detachment you can take them, and the allied detachment is just there to ally you an easier way to get access to another army instead of getting 2x troops and an HQ.

 

EDIT:

There is a Formation that includes one big unit of Kastelans, who can all fire independently of the others. That is your queue to a separate detachment.

 

 

that formation does have an HQ in it though so either way thats a big price for some anti infantry robots

[Scurvydog]

Guess I will avoid a preorder of the bots then, I normally only play smaller point games in my local meta and beginning to order bots I have no idea how I will be able to fit into my skitarii force might be jumping the gun too early before a codex is out. I do hope to see some synergy between skitarii and cult, they are shown as the same army on GW's webstore, even the new web bundles include the new kastellans alongside dragoons and dune crawlers and a knight even, but maybe that is just a big mess of stuff for the heck of it.

[Mr Bill]

I am still confused.  I got the WD, but the maniple is a Heavy choice for ...  who?  That is not the Skitarii emblem at the top.  From what I can see there is no legal way to field these models.  

[Vash]

I am still confused.  I got the WD, but the maniple is a Heavy choice for ...  who?  That is not the Skitarii emblem at the top.  From what I can see there is no legal way to field these models.  

Cult Mechanicus. 

Next weeks WD will include more units and perhaps a sneak preview of the codex it self. 

Then... after that the actual codex will come. They did the same thing with Skitarii. 

[Vel'Cona]

Since the Canticles haven't been spoiled yet, anyone want to postulate on what they'll do?  Doctrina Imperatives was a massive rule for Skitarii and we didn't know about it for a couple weeks in.  I'm guessing it won't be as powerful as those rules, but I'm still hoping for something reasonably original.

[mmimzie]

 Canticles.... (say that word to your self a few times...);  Canticles are chants of the religious nature, and thus will most likely be bolstered by the number of models with the rule. Seeing as how Cult Mech has that we can expect no psychic phase from this codex. Seeing as how the whole army had some beefed up Armour and weapons, and to be different from skitarii i think they'll have more focus on getting you into combat. Either way i be these guys make lots of noise on the battle build humming over the loud speaker.

 

The army looks very aggressive kastelan's maniple gets charged (they wont be charging any one.... if some lets you get the charge.... you've already won) they have 2 str8 ap2 attacks and 4 str6 ap2(or 2 str 10 ap 1 attacks) with 3+/5++/5+++(fnp) and 2+/5++/5+++(fnp) and 8 wounds; and this is with the shooting kind. The unit starts with a flame weapon which is all kinds of made to be in an aggressive place. 

 

I was wondering what size you think the unit should be for a normal list 1500-1850 size. I was thinking 2-3 bots and 1 priest (or more priest for more melee combat power they seem most cost effective in combat than the robots).

 

Edit: i really want to know detachment command bonuses. Skitari's bonus of scouting is a big deal for them.

[Cactus]

Though that said I'm still super confused about how the whole detachment thing works. From what I've read as long as everyone is in a detachment you can take them, and the allied detachment is just there to allow you an easier way to get access to another army instead of getting 2x troops and an HQ.

Correct. It really is that simple.

[Vel'Cona]

That's a point I hadn't thought of: since Cult Mech are getting an HQ choice (Magos Dominus), they should be able to play as CAD and AD, unlike Skitarii.  This will make them a better primary detachment in general than their partner codex; I wonder if this will relegate Skitarii entirely to secondary status?  The ability to get ObjSec is kind of a big deal, IMO.