mmimzie Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 That's a point I hadn't thought of: since Cult Mech are getting an HQ choice (Magos Dominus), they should be able to play as CAD and AD, unlike Skitarii. This will make them a better primary detachment in general than their partner codex; I wonder if this will relegate Skitarii entirely to secondary status? The ability to get ObjSec is kind of a big deal, IMO. This is true unless the cult mech detachment gives really good benefits that make some of thier units really good or offer really important stuff. The skit detachment is really good. It give prefered enemy and scouting to the not so mobile army. Plus skit's detachment has one of the lowest taxes for the most bang for 110 points you get 2x units of skit vanguard and access to the whole skitarii codex. again though depending on canticles, the cult might suck really bad as allies, and depending on how good the rules are or how tight the margins are taking an AD might suck prettying hard if you lose alot of effect from that buff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4038675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshall Egregorius Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 That's a point I hadn't thought of: since Cult Mech are getting an HQ choice (Magos Dominus), they should be able to play as CAD and AD, unlike Skitarii. This will make them a better primary detachment in general than their partner codex; I wonder if this will relegate Skitarii entirely to secondary status? The ability to get ObjSec is kind of a big deal, IMO. This is true unless the cult mech detachment gives really good benefits that make some of thier units really good or offer really important stuff. The skit detachment is really good. It give prefered enemy and scouting to the not so mobile army. Plus skit's detachment has one of the lowest taxes for the most bang for 110 points you get 2x units of skit vanguard and access to the whole skitarii codex. again though depending on canticles, the cult might suck really bad as allies, and depending on how good the rules are or how tight the margins are taking an AD might suck prettying hard if you lose alot of effect from that buff. firstly, CAD? Not completely up on my terminology yet, apologies. second = even if that is so, some of the units might be worth taking an allied detatchment for. for example the plasma cannon tracked servitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4038839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMoreau Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 CAD = Combined Arms Detachment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4039276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Plus skit's detachment has one of the lowest taxes for the most bang for 110 points you get 2x units of skit vanguard and access to the whole skitarii codex. But what would you want out of the skit codex to pay that tax for? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4042954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Plus skit's detachment has one of the lowest taxes for the most bang for 110 points you get 2x units of skit vanguard and access to the whole skitarii codex. But what would you want out of the skit codex to pay that tax for? Well, I want to return the question. What would Skits need from Cult so badly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 vanguard are more then worth there points in themselves and add valuable numbers to what would be an elite army just using the cult dex, from what we have seen. Onagers are some of the best vehicles in the whole game with the option to take 2 of the best guns in the game. Iron striders are very versatile and would be worth taking in any army. Rangers can cripple armys that depend special rules or equipment, given by specific models, due to there precision shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I totally agree with those that think highly of the Elimination Maniple formation. I poured over the WD article for the Kastelans, was impressed by the statline and armaments, but obviously also took note of their points cost, which seemed too high...then Atia's news about the new Formations came in. I saw the rumours on the Elimination Maniple and suddenly, that equation looked a whole lot better. After learning more of the Elimination Maniple's other units, the Kataphron Battle Servitors, It started coming together. Formations aren't a new thing, but I never found any of them more compelling than the classic CAD until the Elimination Maniple. Of course, not until we get the actual codex can we confirm all this, but Atia has been very reliable for Cult Mechanicus so I'm not worried. --- Quick Edit - I also forgot Cult Mechanicus probably has other army-wide special rules we haven't seen yet. I mention this because I was testing out the Skitarii in a Kill Team game. The Skitarii Vanguard were already pretty good for their points cost, but when you add on their Doctrina Imperatives...whoa, they're like totally overclocked. They were able to stand toe-to-toe with Marines in close combat and threw my opponent into a loop. I believe it's already been mentioned there's some army-wide special rules for Cult Mechanicus. These Kastelan Robots + Elimination Maniple Formation + an army-wide special rule, I'm starting to see how units should be judged in a new way, a new framework, in relation to how we normally judge a unit's points cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Plus skit's detachment has one of the lowest taxes for the most bang for 110 points you get 2x units of skit vanguard and access to the whole skitarii codex. But what would you want out of the skit codex to pay that tax for? Vanguards are great, onagar cound bring some anti air, but i've always been of the mind to ignore air because it can be pretty meh all on its own. Plus skit's detachment has one of the lowest taxes for the most bang for 110 points you get 2x units of skit vanguard and access to the whole skitarii codex. But what would you want out of the skit codex to pay that tax for? Well, I want to return the question. What would Skits need from Cult so badly? Cult and skit are closer in toughness than klnights and skit. I like allys that can compare in toughness and give my opponents targets that don't give all of thier special weapons an advantage. Most armys bring at least 2 or 3 melta gun style weapons. If your ruinning cult and skit's with no vehicles you pretty much make his melta gun points worthless. This still gives you access to all the great stuff. kastelons and Destroyers will still reduce cover saves by 1 for your skit vanguars, and kastelons and destroyers can eat marines and stronger for breakfest while skits kill horde style enemies. Breechers take out vehicles and act as front line meat shields for the lower parts of the army, or if deep strike with no errors than you could deep strike them in front of your skits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Uniform toughness or even defensive stats are not the only kind of synergy that exists. It is the most basic one to consider and easiest to pull off, but there are more. When considering IK and Skits I am banking on list building synergy, weapon type synergy and game play synergy. The value of that combo is that they work together very well on the offense. I would argue that they will work better on the offense than Cult, who would have better synergy in the defensive department. Fact is that there are far more factors to consider than just having uniform T values to render certain guns useless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine God Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'm getting some to get better legs for my Dreads:-P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I'm getting some to get better legs for my Dreads:-P For dreadnaught I was thinking one of these robots with a space marine head would look pretty sick. The robot model is designed to be able to run headless. So you put a little space marine head in that empty space Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4043351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well, I want to return the question. What would Skits need from Cult so badly? from cult: elimination maniples. from anything else: HQs and transports. blast/barrage weapons and decent melee units (T>3) but I have another question concerning the kastellans: since the head dome is obviously inacceptable, which version would you prefer as an alternative? post your answer/further suggestions in my WiP thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307685-kastellan-head-swap/?p=4044407 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4044412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well, I want to return the question. What would Skits need from Cult so badly? from cult: elimination maniples. from anything else: HQs and transports. blast/barrage weapons and decent melee units (T>3) but I have another question concerning the kastellans: since the head dome is obviously inacceptable, which version would you prefer as an alternative? post your answer/further suggestions in my WiP thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307685-kastellan-head-swap/?p=4044407 Word has it that next weeks WD will have a formation that combines skitters, knights and cult. I am very curious as to how that will turn out. Will be interesting to see the dominus and priests. If nothing else, I'd like a dominus alongside my skitters for cool factor. As for kastellan looks, I guess the obvious part is subjective, I quite like the original design and can see where they are going with it, but the conversions are interesting as well, head 3 stands out to me as the one fitting the most with the other skitter and cult models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4044678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I for one like the Kastelan heads. I may fiddle with them a bit, but the eye lenses add kind of a 50's sci-fi theme to the CultMech army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm switching my heads for the small robot-upped data smith heads. Then i'll jsut sculpt up abit of wiring to fill the found. Think they'll be fun with thier little heads hooked up to these big machines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorthaur Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think I am going to keep their heads the same I think they look kinda cool. Depending on how the codex artwork inspires me I may change up the paint scheme. I'm debating on whether or not I like the chest piece off or on though. Logically if they are in battle you'd think they'd want the data chips and processing computer concealed instead of open and vulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Word has it that next weeks WD will have a formation that combines skitters, knights and cult. I am very curious as to how that will turn out. Indeed. We can already say some things about how it will be, though: - as the only possibility to field less than 3 knights in other armies is the oathsword detachment (which has no benefits at all), the Admech detachment can only improve upon that. - with +1BF and ignore cover, the elimination maniple is propably as good as it gets - none of the codices have transport options - Skitarii still won't be able to fill a CAD Logically if they are in battle you'd think they'd want the data chips and processing computer concealed instead of open and vulnerable. modelwise, the cover plate features an imperial eagle, so I'll leave it out for my dark mech ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apostle of the 30th Host Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 modelwise, the cover plate features an imperial eagle, so I'll leave it out for my dark mech ;) You could shave the eagle away? Did on mine, and replaced it with a chaos star: (Had to post a link instead of photos as on my phone) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307698-dark-mechanicum-kastelan-wip/?do=findComment&comment=4045093 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 You could shave the eagle away? Did on mine, and replaced it with a chaos star: (Had to post a link instead of photos as on my phone) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307698-dark-mechanicum-kastelan-wip/?do=findComment&comment=4045093 Thx, but I don't like it. As with my Iron Warriors, I am trying to explore the mystical horror of technology and keep religious reference to chaos and/or mutations to a minimum. Thus, an open console is really the best symbolism I could get. I'll just assume force fields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 You could shave the eagle away? Did on mine, and replaced it with a chaos star: (Had to post a link instead of photos as on my phone) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307698-dark-mechanicum-kastelan-wip/?do=findComment&comment=4045093 Thx, but I don't like it. As with my Iron Warriors, I am trying to explore the mystical horror of technology and keep religious reference to chaos and/or mutations to a minimum. Thus, an open console is really the best symbolism I could get. I'll just assume force fields. Look at it this way. The models are just snapshots of them are a particular time, maybe you just wanted to show the time when the date smith was swamping out cards ^.^. Plus i mean that little paper then pannel.... <.< that does look like a 3+/5++/5+++ that repulsing weapon fire to me :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4045715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think Kastelans would be an awesome model to do some daemonic possession conversion work. Maybe using the Possessed plastics and a pile of green stuff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4046466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
munocat Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I am not sure what to model these guys as, I thought about generic, moving them up the field, using the torrent flamer. I want to use them as a shield for my infiltrators Maybe attaching an Odos inquisitor with divination and rad grenades, and other goodies. To beef up the unit. What are you thoughts ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4050070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 They are already pretty beefed up with FNP and 3+/5++/5+++. I'd be super to give them gun to draw and aggros and flamer vs gun is based purely on what you need. If your heavy cult than you'll need the flamer to deal with horde stuffs. The unit is really pricey and rivals a knight so added cost are dagerous in my opinion The unit also has access to speacial issue wargear and arcana mechanicum. Those items might do something to make the unit even stronger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4050088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The problem with trying to screen Sicarians is that this will waste their 9" move from Dunestriders, not to mention the 2d6 (pick highest) + 3" Run move. If you want to cover them in this way, you'd be better off with Dragoons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4050159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
munocat Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I have been thinking of a wall of death, consists of kastelan, vanguard, sydonian, and infiltrators supported buy crawlers. I don't mind the formation running a little slower, 6". The extra 9" will help for supporting assaults. This is not the only units I will be pushing forward. There will be two other groups, smaller. The inquisitor can get a relic that can have the scout rule. This will enable me to infiltrate the kastelan with the infiltratiors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307206-kastelan-maniple-discussion/page/4/#findComment-4050181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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