Tactica: Imperial Knights (Blood Angels and Cult done)

[Frater Cornelius]

This thread is still under construction. I will update it as soon as I make progress.

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Welcome to the B&C Imperial Knight Tactica thread. I want this to be the place about everything Knight-related and a collection of thoughts and discussions about it so that Knight players, regardless whether (s)he wants to add just one Knight or run a full army of them, can come here for advice.
I will continuously edit the info pages and link good posts, ideas and battle reports on the front page for easy navigation and maximum efficiency.

Naturally, everyone is encouraged to suggest improvements or add information

So, without further ado, let us get going.

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Index

Overview

Why Play Imperial Knights

Wargear
Heirlooms (Relics)

Unit Analysis
Paladin
Errant
Warden
Gallant
Crusader

Forge World Unit Analysis (Soon)

Imperial Knights Detachments
Household Detachment

Oathsworn Detachment
Skyreaper Detachment
Gallant Lance
Triparite Lance
Baronial Court
Exalted Court

Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation (working on it)

Allies (in no particular order) - this analysis does not include Forge World as of yet, but it will be soon

Skitarii

Astra Militarum (aka Imperial Guard)

Militarum Tempestus

Adepta Sororitas (aka Sisters of Battle)

Cult Mechanicus

Adeptus Astartes (aka Space Marines) (out of date - will rework it Soon)

Space Wolves

Blood Angels

Dark Angels (working on it)

Grey knights

Inquisition

Officio Assassinorum

Tactics (Coming Soon)

Further Information (member contributions)

Positioning, Shooting vs Charging, Psychological Effects of Knights

Responsible and fair usage of Knights, Gerantius, Heavy Stubber trick, proximity to other Knights

Running multiple Knights, Knights supporting each other

Stomping Trick

Errant, Paladin and Warden VS Tanks

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Edited July 6, 2015 by Immersturm

[Frater Cornelius]

Overview

 

Imperial Knights are one of the playable factions in Warhammer 40k. They are unique in their organization and play style. The entire army only has five different models (Forge World notwithstanding) and as f right now only has two kits available. Sounds rather restrictive, right? Well, that is until you find out that your entire army consists of Super-Heavy Walkers. That is right. No Troops tax, no Force Organization Charts to fight with, no heaps of unused models lying around. Just slam a few giant walkers on the board and have fun stomping about. Whether you are stomping with a Knight-only army or bring a few other friends is entirely up to you. The Knight are flexible enough to be included almost everywhere.

 

 

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You like to have an army consist of very few models.

You enjoy big miniatures.

You like the idea of fielding an army with multiple (or entirely consisting of) Super-Heavy Walkers.

You want to add an amazing center-piece to your existing army.

You enjoy medieval lore and European Knights.

You always wanted to create your own Coat of Arms.

 

These are just a few examples based on myself and from that I have heard about others playing Knights. In the end, if you like the minis, try it out and find your own reason to stay.

 

 

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In this section I will go over every weapons choice available to Imperial Knights and commenting on various upgrades. That way everything should be clear by the time we get to the actual unit analysis and tactics as well load-outs.

 

Ion Shield

This is the Knight's primary defense mechanism. At the start of the opponent shooting phase, you select one facing on the Knight (front, left side, right side, rear). The Knight has a 4+ invulnerable save against damage inflicted to the selected facing (but not the others) until the start of the opponents next shooting phase.

 

This encourages you to tactically position the Knight so that most enemy models will have only one facing to shoot, making the most out of your save.

Knowing this rule is also the best way to bring down an enemy Knight. Get anti-tank weaponry on at least two facing and some weapons will then be able to shoot without hinderance.

 

 

Hull-Weapon: Heavy Stubber

This weapon really pales in comparison to the other options the Knights can carry. However, the purpose of this gun is not to deal damage, but rather opening up charge options. Super-Heavy Walkers can fire each of their weapons at a separate target, but if they want to assault, it has to be a unit they have shot during the Shooting Phase. Hence you can fire your main gun at one target, points the Heavy Stubber at a unit you would want to charge in the ensuing Assault Phase. This is what gives the Knight its flexibility. You are not bound to killing just one unit. You have options.

All Imperial Knights carry at least one of those by default.

 

 

Hull-Weapon: Melta

For 5pts you can exchange the Heavy Stubber for one Melta. This is a questionable upgrade in my eyes. A Melta can do significant damage to a vehicle, however, you need to be within 6" to make the most of it. This means almost being in base contact the enemy enemy, given the Knight's size. At this point you can simply charge it and get a guaranteed kill.

While the Melta does have a 12" range, enabling you to charge the unit you shot, chances are that the Melta will kill a model, seeing as it does not allow Armour Saces, thus potentially increasing the required distance. While a Heavy Stubber could potentially kill more, you will find that the Melta is more reliable in killing a single model.

Nothing I would recommend, but if you have spare points and you are in need of a bit more anti-tank, you can include this at no significant detriment.

 

 

Primary Ranged Weapon: Rapid Fire Battle Cannon

A two shot Leman Russ Battle Cannon, ever so reliable and perfect for clearing big units of MEQ or worse, since those two large blasts can cover a whole lot of models. Also, since it is Ordnance, it means you can threaten vehicles with it as well. However, you will not be able to instantly kill a vehicle, unless it is open-topped. The best you can hope for is damage it or finish it off or disable it with a good roll on the vehicle damage table.

This is a very good all-rounder weapon. It can handle infantry well as well as threaten tanks. The Knight Paladin has this one by default and the Crusader can upgrade its Thermal Cannon for one of these at the cost of one Melta Bomb.

 

 

Primary Ranged Weapon: Thermal Cannon

A 36" ranged, single shot Melta large blast. You use it for wrecking 2+ Armour Saves or kill big tanks like Leman Russ Tanks or Land Raiders. If the enemy has his tanks close together, this can be devastating. However, with no way of ignoring cover and a low rate of fire, it will have trouble finishing Xenos tanks fast.

Against most other targets you will probably be better off with the Rapid-FIre Battle Cannon instead due to its higher rate of fire.

The Errant Knight and Crusader Knight have this by default.

 

 

Primary Ranged Weapon: Avenger Gatling Cannon

This one is arguable the best generalist weapon available to Imperial Knights. It is for absolutely ruining squads of infantry and light vehicles. It is more reliable Battle Cannon if the opponent tend to space his units further apart to prevent them from suffering under blast markers. It can even be used as an anti-air weapon in a pinch due to its high rate of fire.

Rending also enables it to threaten Heavy Tanks and Monstrous Creatures if you have no dedicated guns or melee to kill those.

The Knight Warden and Knight Crusader have this by default.

 

 

Melee Weapon: Reaper Chainsword

The standard weapon of all non-Forge World Knights bar the Crusader. It is a Destroyer close combat weapon. This is the reason why Knights are such deadly foes up close. Very few units can withstand the power of a D weapon on top of the Stomping attacks that Super-Heavy Walkers can perform.

All Knight variants except the Crusader have this by default.

 

 

Melee Weapon: Thunderstrike Gauntlet

An upgrade that costs 10pts. What you get is another Destroyer close combat weapon, expect that it always strikes at Initiative 1 due to the 'Colossal' rule. The benefit of this is that if your melee attack kills a Monstrous Create or a Vehicle, you can then hurl the deal model up to 12" away as an out-of-phase shooting attack that uses the large blast marker with no AP, but has the strength equal to the hurled model's Toughness or half the Front Armour Value.

Situation at best, but very fun to use, even with the Colossal rule hindering your strike order. I will definitely consider giving this to one model if I have the spare points, but definitely not a must-have if you want your Knight to operate at peak efficiency.

 

 

Carapace Weapon: Ironstorm Missile Pod

For 30pts you get what amounts to a Whirlwind Launcher without the Ordnance rule. It is not fantastic compared to the primary weapons, however, it can be good for clearing up remnants of a squad that you could not wipe out with your main gun. But since Super-Heavy Walkers can choose a separate target for each weapon, it can be good for shooting a unit that tries to hide out of line of sight due to the Barrage rule. It also gives the Knight horde-killing potential, to help with the fact that an enemy horde will have way more units/models than you can shoot.

Definitely a worthwhile upgrade, seeing as Imperial Knights tend to struggle a bit against high model-count armies.

 

 

Carapace Weapon: Stormspear Rocket Pod

A Heavy 3 Krak Missle Launcher, good for pounding away at squads, causing Instant Death on MEQ unit, or for knocking a few hull-points of a tank, rather than wasting your main gun on an already weakened target.

However, it comes at the steep cost of 40pts. Consider carefully, whether you need another single target high Strength weapon before making this purchase.

 

 

Carapace Weapon: Twin Icarus Autocannons

Your only anti-aircraft weapon. Not as good as the Quad-Gun, since this one only has two shots and isn't twin-linked (which is available on Fortifications) but it is the best you can get without allies. Then again, better to have something that does slightly more than chip the paintwork off Flyers than nothing. Take if you go up against Flyers on a regular basis and do not bring allies that cover the skies for you, leave at home otherwise and save your 35pts.

 

 

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Heirlooms (Relics)

 

Relics in this book are unlike the ones you find in other books. Only a Baron or High King has access to the ones in this list. Only the Household Detachment, Baronial Court and Exalted Court allow you to nominate one Knight to become a Baron or High King (the Exalted Court having multiple Barons). You can not access these Relics outside of those three Detachments.

 

Banner of Macharius the Triumphant

All friendly models that are part of the Armies of the Imperium faction within 12" get to re-roll failed Morale, Pinning and Fear checks.

This one is amazing if you run a non-fearless supplement force, like Skitarii or Imperial Guard. Unless you have something more specific in mind, this should definitely be included in a combined army, preferably on a mid-field Knight like the Paladin, Warden or Crusader. It is very cheap to boot. Very good Relic.

Usage: With Imperial Guard or Skitarii Allies

Recommended on: Crusader, Paladin, Warden

Not Recommended on: Errant, Gallant (because of strong positional requirement or risky play style)

 

 

Helm of the Nameless Warrior 

Gain Rampage

Rather expensive Relic and pretty situational. The only time I would recommend it is when you run a Knight Gallant as your Baron. 6-8 SD WS5 attacks on the charge with the option of hurling something is very strong. The low cost of the Gallant balances out the high cost of this Relic.

Usage: Baron Gallant

Recommended on: Gallant

Not Recommended on: Crusader (not Destroyer melee weapon)

 

 

Mark of the Omnissaiah

Gain IWND

Same price as the Helm of the Nameless Warrior, but much more broader field of application. This is your generalist Relic. If you do not know what to take, take this one, points permitting.

Usage: When you have points left and no specific requirement on what to take

Recommended on: All

Not Recommended on: None

 

 

The Paragon Gauntlet

Master-crafted Gauntlet

We already established that the Gauntlet is not an efficient upgrade due to striking at I1 and having to pay additional 10pts for a gimmick. Re-rolling one hit is not going to change it. The only place the Gauntlet is useful is on the Gallant (more on that later), but the Gallant generally has better options.

Usage: Not recommended

Best on: Gallant

 

 

Ravager

Chainsword that re-rolls 1s to Hit.

5pts less than the Helm that gives you Preferred Enemy for hits. Occasionally nice to have, but the problem is that there are better alternatives for a very specific purpose or much broader field of application.

Usage: On a Baron, resulting is hitting on 3s, re-rolling ones, against most enemies

Recommended on: Gallant, Warden, Errant

Not recommended on: Crusader

 

Sanctuary

Ion Shield that gives a 6++ to the other facings.

Very gimmicky item. It is cheap, but a 6+ Invulnerable Save is nowhere near as good as to be called reliable. There are better alternatives that do something all the time. This is far to luck-based to recommend. But if the dice love you, you might get some mileage out of it, especially if your meta lacks cover.

Usage: If you are feeling lucky, put it on an Errant or Gallant, seeing as those two variants are used more aggressively than the rest.

Recommended on: Gallant, Errant

Not recommended on: Crusader (too defensive for that)

 

 

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Edited May 10, 2015 by Immersturm

[Pascalnz]

hi there, hope you don't mind me weighing in:)

 

the fist is a 2 melta bomb "upgrade that makes your knight worse at fighting... except on a gallant that thing is just awful, shame really

 

the melta gun is fantastic for helping open transports. sure you could get a free charge at a vehicle , but why not charge its contents:).

 

formations

 

The sky reaper lance. pretty ok if you really want a chunk of you army to deal with fliers...not too spectacular

Same with the gallant lance, makes them do their job a bit better, fast movement, a few more attacks...  soso

 

the tripartite lance

OHhh...what a doozey. the lessening of cover saves and precision bombardment really make you want to take the iron storm missile pod for those pesky little guys hiding in ruins you can't see:) and shooting melta blasts or battle canon shots near you without so much worrying about hitting yourselves.

also really great when coupled with skittari phosphor weapons and marine auspex:)

 

the d3 hammer of wraths is handy especially when....

 

IT's all one big unit!!!!. the one detriment is having to be 4inches apart at most at all times, but the bonuses are AMAZING!. 

1, if just one of your knights makes a charge, the whole unit will get into combat

2, if someone charges you, all the knights will fight. you can't get picked off one by one[maybe only bad if a wraithkngiht with CC d charges you;P]hint make them assault though cover:) or concuss them first]

3. one casting of a psychic power works on all of them, invisible unit? shrouded?, 4++ invulnerable save? presience?... I think maybe only paroxysm is really bad if it hits them... maybe that new harlequin power?

 

Barons court is brilliant for big guns standing at the back, 4 crusaders 2 on each side of the board blowing things away with 3+ ion field sounds pretty good,

being able to overwatch isn't bad either, within 12 of the baron. not so c=great for close combat guys, the further up you get[except on the board edges a bit] the easier it is for your opponent to target other facings. could be worth a try with the cerestus chassis that can run 3d6 and easily threaten the opponents line by the end of turn one[and face the opponent with front armour from the side of the board], and overwatching with the acherons flamer[d6] sounds like fun:)

 

The exalted court,

 

great for an all knight army, that likes a more rounded approach than the barons court.

popping 2 gallants in the formation gives a lot of spare points to spend and they are pretty excellent with ws5, the bs 5 is even ok for the melta or carapace weapon you plop on top. The BS5 is obviously great for anyone wielding a gatling blaster as well.

 

the wonderfull special sauce is the +1 to ion shield and ws bs 6! plus rerolls for the warlord in a  challenge. for a mere 3 melta bombs your warlord can get 5++ to all sides and 3++ to any one facing making him far more forgiving if you put him in combat and get stranded. It's doubly good for the lancer cerastus, giving him a 4++ in combat[checked with FW , it does work that way;)] and that 5++ in the rear, where normally they can't place their shield.

 

Also, with every member being a character, they can challenge out any melta bombs or power fists in enemy units, making life a lot easier in combat and helping with a couple of maelstrom objectives.

 

ahhh, that's it or the moment:) 

Edited May 7, 2015 by Pascalnz

[Frater Cornelius]

It will still be a small while until I get to analysing the Detachments. First the unit analysis needs to be done.

Thanks for the chunk of info though. There is definitely good thoughts in there. I agree with most of what you said (but not quite everything). I include that in the Detachment analysis once I get there, which should be this weekend. But more about it later ;)

[CommodusXIII]

the melta gun is fantastic for helping open transports. sure you could get a free charge at a vehicle , but why not charge its contents:).

 

You have to be careful with this.  The transport and the models inside are technically two different units.  If you open up the transport with the meltagun, you have to shoot at the unit inside with something else to be able to charge them.

 

For the Warden, Crusader and Paladin this is simple - there's a wealth of flamers and stubbers to take token shots with.  With the Errant, you might have to use the Thermal Cannon.  It's better to open the transport with that and use the meltagun for the token shot.  If you've invested in a carapace weapon, this is a bit easier.

 

The Gallant has it the worst - there's a possibility that the meltagun might be its only ranged weapon, so you wouldn't be able to charge the contents of a transport after you destroy it.  This is why the Gallant, moreso than any other Knight, needs to take a carapace weapon.

 

EDIT:  Belay that, I'm just a man out of time...

Edited May 7, 2015 by CommodusXIII

[Vel'Cona]

  this thread!  Here's hoping we see one when Cult Mechanicus lands!

[Frater Cornelius]

this thread! Here's hoping we see one when Cult Mechanicus lands!

Was this a request for me to make a Skitarii and Cult Tactica as well? ;)

 

@ CommodusXIII - Not correct. If you shoot the transport and destroy it, you are allowed to charge the unit without having to shoot them. So the Melta could be used to blow a Rhino and charge the Tacs inside while the other guns shoot somewhere else.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Immersturm

[CommodusXIII]

General thoughts:

Positioning.

 

The Ion Shield may be the Knight's greatest defense on paper, but on the battlefield it's cover.  This includes other Knights - positioning themselves to obscure facings on the engines behind them.  This allows you to extend saves to multiple arcs, which becomes important mid-game when you begin to get surrounded.

 

Speaking of which, don't get surrounded.  A static Knight is a dead Knight.   Use that 12" move and Relentless to reposition every turn.   You want to be forcing your enemy out of position, not the other way around.  Which leads to...

 

Knights as a Psychological Weapon.

 

Knights are a good way to ruin someone's day.  While certainly tough on paper, their greatest strength is arguably their effect on your opponents and not necessarily their armies.  As the biggest bad on the battlefield, this effect begins during deployment and lasts the entire game.  Some opponents will even opt to give you the first deployment, in the hopes of obtaining optimal firing positions at the expense of allowing you the alpha strike.  Once on the field, Knights can act as both fire magnets and charge bubbles, allowing you to control the battlespace.  You want to take this control, and not allow yourself to be goaded into ineffective combat or to be outflanked by meltagun-toting infantry.

 

Also, Knights can be frustrating in that they can force your opponent to play his or her army against normal conventions - especially if you are running multiple Knights as a primary detachment.  Watch as they throw their prized units into the meat grinder, simply because they can't do anything else.  Gunlines become skirmishers, close combat deathstars become speedbumps and sacrifices.

 

Experienced players are less susceptible to this, so proceed with caution.

 

Know When to Shoot and When to Charge.

 

Knights are generally excellent at both shooting and assault - with the Crusader and the Gallant each being more specialized in one field than the other.  There is a time and a place for both.  It's important to know which is which to avoid being cut down or tarpitted.

 

Generally, you're going to want to avoid combat.  As I said above, mobility is one of your greatest assets.  Close combat negates that and pins your Knight down in one place for an unknown amount of time.  It's generally best to stay at medium range (24-36", depending on the pattern) and continue to poor fire into your selected targets.

 

When do you want to charge?

 

First, when you encounter something that absolutely must die right now.  Knights have excellent firepower, but few things match their Destroyer attacks and Stomps.  It's important that you are the one picking these targets, and that their destruction be instrumental to your overall victory.  Don't waste this on peons.

 

Second, when the shooting phase becomes hazardous to your health.  If you're facing meltagun-heavy units like Sisters of Battle or Fire Dragons, or Wraithknights, you'll last a lot longer in melee than you will against their shooting.  This can also provide temporary safety from long-range attacks, but for these you're better served to simply run and reposition if possible.

 

The Knight's Greatest Enemy.

 

I've been playing Knights as my primary army for the past year, from the final days of 6th Edition through all of 7th to date.  I've played a lot of armies, and one unit in particular always raises the hairs on the back of my neck.  It isn't Sisters of Battle with their meltagun parties.  It isn't Eldar with all of their Haywire and Destroyer attacks.  It's Necron Scarabs, followed closely by the Tomb Spiders that birth them.  You've been warned.

Edited May 7, 2015 by CommodusXIII

[Frater Cornelius]

Posts like the one above will be collected in 'Further Information' and linked to the respective post.

[CommodusXIII]

I'll keep dumping info, then.

[Pascalnz]

Commodus, if you shoot at a vehicle, and either destroy it with your shooting or someone else shooting you can charge the guys inside. has been this way since 5th ed, you must have been playing a very long time:)[i started in 2nd ed, but only got back in  during 5th:)]

[Frater Cornelius]

Easy though. I will need to keep up with doing the tactica and scouring the tthread for info good enough to be pinned in the Index up top :P

[CommodusXIII]

Playing Knights Responsibly.

 

Imperial Knights have been a controversial army since their release.  They established a foothold for consistent Destroyer attacks in non-Apocalypse 40K - though Eldar now bear the brunt of this ire.  They also mark the first time super-heavy vehicles could be fielded outside of Escalation.  Many players simply refused to face them, and Knights were effectively banned from tournaments for a short time.

 

If you're going to be fielding a Knight, especially an army of them, it's your responsibility to maintain the reputation of the faction.  If you act like a child, you'll penalize every Knight player that comes after you.

 

Know when to be competitive and when to be fluffy.  No one likes playing "That Guy", and as a Knight player you're likely to face immediate suspicion.  Coming to the table with a win-at-all-cost mindset, especially for friendly games, is going to reinforce negative opinions of the entire faction.

 

Be fair.  Knights are an advanced army and require special tactics to defeat.  Don't play the new kid in at your FLGS who just picked up Dark Vengence and a few boxes of troops with a Household Detachment.  Be prepared to help your opponent - playing Knights often includes providing education to those facing you.  If nothing else, debrief them after the game and go over what worked and what didn't.  You want people to walk away from your games feeling like they learned something, even if they lost.

 

I love my Knights, and I want to keep playing them.  I don't want them to sit on the shelf because you gave someone PKSD by being a jackwaggon.

 

Commodus, if you shoot at a vehicle, and either destroy it with your shooting or someone else shooting you can charge the guys inside. has been this way since 5th ed, you must have been playing a very long time:)[i started in 2nd ed, but only got back in  during 5th:)]

 

Huh, just found this blurb in The Rules.  Thanks!

 

Alternative Uses of the Heavy Stubber.

As a bit of history, the Heavy Stubber also had a second purpose besides marking units for charging.  It was used quite effectively in 6th Edition to force grounding tests on Flying Monstrous Creatures.  This was mitigated somewhat with the release of 7th Edition, and has since been completely supplanted by the Icarus Autocannon.

 

The Problem with Gerantius.

 

Gerantius the Forgotten Knight was considered the biggest bad the Knights had to offer, until the release of the new Codex.  A Knight Errant with Seneschal buffs and the It Will Not Die Warlord Trait, he effectively gave you a second Knight Warlord with the best results possible.  However, he does have a fatal flaw.

 

Gerantius must charge every turn, if able.  That means that if you end your Shooting Phase at most 12" away from an enemy model, you're forced to declare a Charge.  At longer distances you're unlikely to roll high enough to actually get into combat - but that won't stop them from Overwatching you.  Believe me, you don't want to give your opponent any more shots at your Knights than you have to.  The three options available are:

 

1)  Don't end your Shooting Phase within 12" of an enemy model.

2)  Make sure you're close enough to actually get into combat, if that's what you want.

3)  Don't shoot any enemy unit within 12" - you can only declare Charges against units that you've shot at.  Make sure that you do shoot at another unit, though - if you don't shoot anyone, you can charge everyone.

 

Moreso than the issue with Overwatch, Gerantius' flaw is a fundamental one that relates back to my first point about Knights.  Mobility is your best tool, and Gerantius takes that from you.  A Knight, especially one as costly as Gerantius, is huge investment.  You don't want that investment running off with a mind of its own, throwing your battle plans into chaos.  You can certainly plan around him - wind him up, point him in the general direction and let him go - but personally I prefer a little more control and finesse.

 

Proximity to Other Knights.

 

It can be tempting to charge your Knights up the field in a line of armored giants, especially when using Formations with bonuses that depend on proximity.  The Adamantine Lance was especially susceptible to this, and tricked many Imperial Knight players into choosing inefficient placement for a perceived (but unrealized or unnecessary) benefit.  Don't fall for this bait, unless it's strictly necessary for your current battle plan.

 

When Knights die, they explode violently.  This can be yet another tool in your chest - killing a Knight in assault is a dangerous endeavor, as it will likely take its killers out with it.  However, this can also be disasterous for your own army when combined with the Formations mentioned above.  One Knight being picked off can seriously damage or even destroy a neighboring Knight in the Formation.  Unlucky rolls can result in a chain reaction.  Thus, Knights can be as hazardous to each other as they are to the enemy.

 

Unless you absolutely need your Formation benefit at the time, it's best to keep your Knights well-spaced.  If you're up against strong resistance - Destroyer-toting Eldar, Haywire or meltagun parties, or those damned Scarabs - it's best to space them out even more.  Balance the rewards (Formation benefits, obscuring each others' facings, etc.) against the potential hazards if one or more Knights are taken out.  You can move in and out of Formation very easily, and often only two Knights need to be in proximity to trigger the desired effects - the other(s) can operate independently until needed.

 

A heavily-damaged Knight is a ticking time bomb.  Once you get down to your last hull point or two, it's best to sequester it away from your other units.  You can even launch a suicidal final attack - if it's going to die, it might as well take out a few enemies with it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by CommodusXIII

[Pascalnz]

mobility is one of the reasons I love the cerestus chassis knights so much, I took 4 to LVO and the power of 3d6 add them together on the run is terrifying. especially up a flank keeping your front face towards the enemy.

 

 

NASTY TRICK 1

:)  isn't it annoying when you charge a unit only to destroy it before you get a chance to stomp.[some TO's don't allow stomp to work on units outside the combat you are in....that galls me considering the picture showing it being used shows it being used on another unit of marines[there's twenty in the pic and only one in base contact].  well... if you charge through terrain everything goes at initiative one, so you always get your stomps.[not always the best to go at i1 but there are some choice moments. Also with the gallant being avaialable you can always choose to attack with the fist for ini1:)

 

 

Also.... does Gerantius actually function, I don't have his data slate, but.... could we put him in a formation?? it does say "any knight" heck make him the KING in the exalted formation and give him sanctuary, 4++ all round with a 2++ shield ws..like 7???

please someone check up his data slate thanks:)

[CommodusXIII]

I don't see why not.  Gerantius is listed as being an Imperial Knight.  He was blacklisted from the Adamantium Lance because the AdLance specified Paladins or Errants.  Gerantius is arguably an Errant, but it doesn't say that anywhere in his datafile.

 

My other problem with Gerantius, besides his mobility issues, is that he's a bit overpriced now.  An Errant with the Mark of the Omnissiah runs 400 pts.  Are all of Gerantius' other bonuses really worth the extra 100 pts?  So much more could be bought with that.

[jeffersonian000]

I love the pricing in Melta Bombs! Casting my vote for that as a new standard.

 

As to adding to the tactica, my Knights replaced my Land Raiders in my old Tri-Raider lists, of which I use the same general strategic thinking, ie, one Knight is a target, two are a tactic, and three or more require prior planning.

 

As a target, unlike other big box models, a single Knight actually benefits your army by not only drawing attention, but by surviving such attention while warrenting all the focus your opponent can spare. If your opponent is ignoring your Knight, you aren't playing aggressive enough. If your opponent is too focused on the Knight, thank them after you win the game.

 

The tactics of two can be summed up as "always be supporting". Use them to provide covering fire for each other, which discourages enemies from flanking your Knights' vulnerable flanks. This goes as much for your non-Knight units as it does your Knights. Denying good positioning to your opponent is key to getting them to trap themselves behind terrain that limits their ability to return fire in mass while you chip away at them unit by unit. Think of Thermopile.

 

As to three or more, the advice posted by others cover more detail than I can add. Although, from a psychological point of view, moving your many Knights in a haphazard, disorganized manner will actual encourage your opponent to isolate and remove your Knights one at a time. Moving, shooting, and assaulting in a pattern has the effect of mitigating attempts to isolate individual Knights, greatly enhancing your Household's survivability. It a minor point, but an important one. The human mind seeks patterns, an aspect we as players can take advantage of.

 

SJ

Edited May 7, 2015 by jeffersonian000

[Zembar]

No, please don't do the melta bomb thing. It's silly, unnecessary and changes exactly nothing legally.

 

Using point values conservatively is not against the forum rules. Using melta bombs only makes it harder to read and adds to possible confusion.

[CommodusXIII]

Thank you.

[Frater Cornelius]

Fair enough. Your fault if this gets forcefully edited :P

[Frater Cornelius]

Unit Analysis

 

Knight Paladin

Your basic Imperial Knight with a Rapid-Fire Battle-cannon, 2 Heavy Stubbers and a Reaper Chainsword. The Battle-cannon is the general purpose weapon that fires two large blasts and is Ordnance, giving you a fair chance to strip hull-points for vehicles. The cannon is also very good at wiping out large units of enemy soldiers due to its high Strength of 8 and AP3.

Given the innate flexibility of the Battle Cannon, this Knight is one of the two best general-purpose Knights you can get (the other one being the Warden). So if you are looking for a singular Knight for your list or you are not sure what Knight to add in a specific scenario, you can rarely go wrong with the Paladin.

 

Strengths:

Flexibility - can handle anything short of 2+ Armour Saves at range

Spam Control - Strips hull-points of AV12 and AV13 with reasonable effectiveness and is effective in combating hordes.

Two Heavy Stubbers - has more charge options if all shooting attacks were used

 

Weaknesses:

Master of none - High flexibility comes at the cost of being able to reliably kill Heavy Armour and 2+ Save Infantry/MC as well as AV14

 

Upgrades:

Melta - since the Paladin has two Heavy Stubbers, it might come in handy to upgrade one for a Melta to add a bit of close range transport-busting capabilities.

Ironstorm/Stormspear - ask yourself what the purpose of the Knight is. Is it hunting stripping hull-points from tanks? Then you want the Stormspear Rocket Pod. If you want to handle hordes, the Ironstorm Missile Pod is for you.

 

Usage:

Very good singular Knight for almost any list that has no need for a specialized unit

Solid final addition to a Knight list once all other bases are covered

Low-value unit hunter - Ranged horde-control with Battle Cannon and Ironstorm Missiles. Good at stripping hull-points of light and medium tanks with Battle Cannon and Stormspear Rockets.

Complementary to Warden (see below)

 

http://i.imgur.com/ifppoFs.png

 

Knight Errant

Very similar to the Paladin, though with only one Heavy Stubber and a Thermal Cannon which is S9 AP1 Melta for chewing up Terminators & Land Raiders. For all other tasks look to the Paladin instead. The shorter range means that it's going to be much closer to the center of the table where it will inevitably start taking your opponent's heavy weapons fire and is also more likely to get drawn into close combat. Use it as a flanking Knight and stalk up one side of your opponent's battle line. The Errant is effective as an allied Knight, if you are lacking AP2 or Heavy-Tank-busting at range.

 

Strengths:

Heavy-Tank-Busting - big threat for high value vehicles like Land Raiders due to ranged Melta Large Blast

Terminator-Busting - direct counter to most Terminator armies due to Instant Death against Toughness 4 and AP1

 

Weaknesses:

Strictly inferior to Paladin at horde-control - Paladin has twice the amount of shooting and AP1 is not relevant against hordes

Reliant on explosions - low rate of fire means you need explosions to kill cheap tanks without wasting multiple phases

Cover Saves - low rate of fire means that killing jinking tanks is also a matter of luck

 

Upgrades:

Melta - If you want to amplify the purpose of the Errant, namely tank-busting, you can give him an edge at close range

Ironstorm/Stormspear - either help it strip the last HP from tanks it failed to blow up or give it some insurance against hordes. Both are valid

 

Usage:

Where the Paladin is best against cheap or medium units, the Errant excels at high-value target hunting

Disable or outright kill expensive tanks at range

TEQ-hunting

 

http://i.imgur.com/ifppoFs.png

 

 

Knight Warden

Now let us look at one of the new variants introduced in the 7th Edition book. The Knight Warden is now the second generalist Knight, next to the Paladin, capable of fulfilling multiple roles in a pinch. The reveal of the Knight caused a slight wave of confusion. On the first look it seems like a slightly different version of the Paladin. They cost the same points, same AP on their main gun, similar strength and it would seem they both fill a similar role.

Not quite. After thinking about it for a while, the difference became more clear to me. You see, what is the Paladin good at. Stripping hull-points and battling hordes. The nature of a Strength 8 Ordnance weapon with two large blasts allow it to deal with medium armour and high model-count units, which are usually packed more densely. However, what about lower model count? What about Monstrous Creatures or Jetbikes? You will be lucky to hit three in one shot. More often than not you will only get two, sometimes only one hit per Battle Cannon shot. This is where the Warden comes in. It does not strip hull-points quite as well due to only being S6 AP3. However, since the gun fires 12 shots, it is very good in combating spaced out units. Eldar Jetbikes will fold under this gun, as will Tactical Marines. This gun can threaten T5 and T6 Monstrous Creatures a lot better due to far more hits. It can also deal with T5 models with big bases, like Thunderwolf Cavalry, Space Marine Bikes or Wraiths. There is the difference. The Paladin focuses best on stripping hull-points and hordes, whereas the Warden can tackle Monstrous Creatures, large bases and medium sized MEQ units. It also does very well against AV10 and AV11.

The Warden starts to shine where the Paladin fails and vice versa. So no, the Warden will not replace the Paladin. If anything, they complement each other. If I play two Knights, I will bring those two together most of the time.

 

Strengths:

Models on large bases and Monsters - Monstrous Creatures and models like TWC, Wraiths or even Jetbikes and Space Marine Bikes can avoid large blasts very well due to their size and thus increased spacing. The Warden will still get the same amount of hits against those, causing more wounds per phase

Light Tank-busting - most effective Knight when killing AV10 or AV11 vehicles

Flexibility - Rending on the main gun combined with loads of shots can also help against 2+ Armour Saves in a pinch. It can serve as anti-air in pinch due its high rate of fire

 

Weaknesses:

Armour - due to only being S6, the Warden will suffer against massed AV12+, since it lacks the ability to strip hull-points effectively of anything above AV11

 

Upgrades:

Ironstorm/Stormspear - if you want to amplify the Warden's role to hunt Monsters and high T models, then Stormspear is the best choice (as well as my personal choice. Ironstorm is only relevant if you want to increase its punch against hordes, but a Paladin does it better.

Melta - it helps a bit with its weakness to armour, albeit only at close range.

 

Usage:

Monster-Hunting, killing (Jet)Bikes, TWC, Wraiths or other low model-count, high Toughness models

Adequate answer to spaced out MEQ models

Kills AV10-11 more effectively that Paladin (but fails against anything higher)

Complementary to the Paladin

 

http://i.imgur.com/ifppoFs.png

 

Knight Gallant

Let us look at the first of two specialist Knights in the Codex. The Gallant is a pure melee variant, wielding a Reaper Chainsword and a Thunderstrike Gauntlet. This essentially means 4 Attacks base, but no shooting except a Heavy Stubber and a possible Carapace Weapon. Where does this Knight fit in? Well, it is an elite-unit-killer and a psychological weapon above all else, even compared to other Knights. You select the opponent most expensive and valuable unit, send it right at it and queue 'Metallica - Seek and Destroy'. Given its lack of range damage, this is essentially all you will do. This means that regardless of army setup, this Knight will put on a lot of pressure, especially since it is more deadly in melee than the other Knights and thus will possibly become a prime target for destruction. This can go two ways. Either it gets the charge off, or it dies. But even if it does, it will have eaten a lot of the enemy's firepower.

The other advantage is that this Knight is very cheap. You get a 50pts discount compared to a Paladin or a Warden, thus making it an excellent choice of third Knight in a detachment that is a bit short on points.

Given that the Gallant can only melee and destroy high-value targets, do not bother trying to give it ranged capabilities. Focus on the melee part. Making this Knight a Baron means it can challenge Power Fists and strike with WS5. It is also a prime choice for the 'Helm of the Nameless Warrior', giving this Knight 6-8 Destroyer attacks with WS5 on the charge on top of Stomp.

So if your are facing plenty of Death Stars, this is your best bet at taking them out.

 

Strengths:

Cheap - this Knight will allow you to allocate more resources elsewhere

Melee Powerhouse - very little can stand against this Knight in melee, given the appropriate upgrades

High pressure - this variant will walk and run forward far more aggressively than other variants, building more pressure

 

Weakness:

No shooting - due to its lack of ranged weaponry, this Knight is highly specialized and one dimensional

Hordes - no way to thin out hordes and is prone to being charged and subsequently tar-pitted due to its highly aggressive nature

 

Upgrades:

Melta - this allow the Knight to destroy a transport and charge the passengers. However, due to lack of other ranged weapons, you might be forced to charge the transport if you fail to destroy it

Helm of the Nameless Warrior - you can call it a dedicated Relic for this variant, as it capitalizes on the Knight's strength

 

Usage:

High Value unit hunter, be they Death Stars, Lords of War or simply an expensive and elite unit.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ifppoFs.png

 

Knight Crusader

Where the Gallant is the melee specialist, this one is the ranged specialist. It comes with a Thermal Cannon, which can up upgraded to a Battle Cannon for 5pts, and a Gatling Cannon. This is your back to midfield man. With two Primary Weapons and a Carapace Weapon this variant will quickly decimate the opponents army from afar. A solid midfield presence to deny an objective and support the army. This Knight also has the greatest Alpha Strike, seeing as it can unfold its full potential without needing to be in melee. Its defensive nature means that it will last longer than most of the other variants.

This variant also makes an excellent choice to become a Baron, seeing as the +1BS can really help the shooting. Due to its close proximity to where most shooting armies operate, holding the Banner of Macharius Triumphant will best on this variant.

Unfortunately, where the Gallant is the cheapest, this one is the most expensive variant, being 50pts more expensive than a Paladin or Warden. Also, its lack of Destroyer melee will make it very susceptible to dedicated melee units with good saves, despite having 3 Attacks with Strength 10.

 

Strength:

Alpha Strike - no need to get into melee range for full damage potential means much more damage from the start of turn one

Flexibility - due to its diverse weapon setup, this Knight can take on virtually any role of the other Knights would have with their ranged weapons

 

Weaknesses:

Expensive - taking this Knight might potentially mean saving somewhere else, especially since a fully kitted out Crusader will be around 80-100pts more expensive than a stock Paladin

No Destroyer melee - this variant is very susceptible to melee Death Stars or dedicated melee fighters and must be protected from those as well as tarpits

 

Upgrades:

Ironstorm/Stormspear: Depending on which role you need, anti-horde or stripping hull-points. A dedicated hull-point-stripper and Monstrous Creature hunter would take the Stormspear Rockets with the Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon. A horde-hunter would take the Battle Cannon and Ironstorm Missiles. An Elite unit hunter would keep the Thermal Cannon and go with Stormspear Rockets.

Banner of Macharius Triumphant - the defensive nature of this Knight makes most of this Relic

 

Usage:

Any task the Warden, Errant and Crusader can do at range, this one is capable of doing as well. For usage of those three variants, check the respective posts.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ifppoFs.png

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Edited May 10, 2015 by Immersturm

[CommodusXIII]

Destroying Armor.

 

It should be noted that Knights are most effective against enemy armor in close combat.  This is somewhat of an exception to the rule about maintaining mobility - because a Knight cannot be locked in combat with a vehicle, and will annihilate most Walkers reliably in combat, you should not hesitate to charge them if the opportunity presents itself.  Between Hammer of Wrath, multiple Destroyer attacks and Stomp there is little chance of armor surviving the initial assault.  If the vehicle or fortification does withstand your advance, you can simply walk away next turn if you need to reposition.

 

Indeed, Knights are the bane of most other Super-Heavy Vehicles at close range.  This is even more true in large-scale games such as Apocalpyse.  Few Titans are equipped for close combat and even a lone Knight punches well above its weight against enemies as large as Reaver-class engines.

 

You should, of course, be wary of supporting infantry or transport occupants that may counter-charge the following turn.  Don't allow such tempting targets lead you to make rash decisions.

 

Hunting Creatures.

 

Monstrous Creatures are also better dealt with in close combat, perhaps even more so than armor.  Vehicles and fortications can still be destroyed in one lucky shot with a Thermal Cannon - or even a Battlecannon in some cases - but Monstrous Creatures in general have a Toughness value high enough to survive the initial salvo.  They are, however, just as susceptible to Destroyer attacks and Stomps as anything else.  Again, be careful of supporting units in the area - charging that Carnifex may be tempting, but that horde of Termagaunts following behind will tarpit your Knight for the rest of the game.

 

Gargantuan Creatures, however, are the most difficult target for a Knight to bring down.  They can weather Destroyer attacks to a greater extent than any other unit, and are immune to Stomps.  And unlike other Super-Heavy Vehicles, Gargantuan Creatures are generally able to return just as much punishment as they receive.  It's best to engage them with multiple Knights, being wary of what happens if one of the Knights goes critical in the process.

 

This is where the Knight Gallant shines - and why it is generally better-suited for Apocalypse battles with the support of other Knights than in smaller games of standard 40K.  Conversely, the Knight Crusader is comparatively less-effective at engaging armor than other patterns despite its impressive ranged weapon payload.

 

Infantry in Assault, or:  How to Avoid Gumming Up Your Gears.

 

Perhaps the greatest danger to Knights isn't that of being destroyed.  The worst fate you can experience is finding your Super-Heavy Walker locked in combat with a 150-point pile of Imperial Guard Conscripts.  Being tarpitted with a large unit of disposable bodies will effectively remove your Knight from the game - even more so if they have a Fearless buff.  Destroyer attacks and Stomps are wonderful for removing large, expensive, high-toughness and multi-wound models. Against 1W infantry, they're just a more complicated swing.

 

Not only can this tarpit your Knight, it can also hold them in place until specialist armor-hunters can get into range.  The peons might not be able to hurt you, but their buddies walking up behind you with thunderhammers sure can.  Maintain awareness of the battlefield and do your best to visualize such traps before you find yourself caught in them.

 

The only time you should be charging into massed infantry is to take your Knight out of the line of fire - for example, if meltaguns or Distortion weapons are in the area.  Otherwise, you should be out-maneuvering them with your 12" walk while pouring fire into them.  Knights can now benefit from Objective Secured, so you can contest objectives late in the game by charging into the units that hold them.  This should be an option of last resort.

 

Smaller, tougher units (no more than 5 bodies) can be dealt with in assault, but this is situational.  If you decide to go this route, be sure that the combat will be over in exactly 2 turns.  If you wipe them out in the initial charge, you'll be open to shooting and counter-charge in your enemy's turn.  However, you want to free yourself up by your next turn to regain mobility.

[librisrouge]

I'll be following this closely. So far it looks pretty good.

[Vel'Cona]

Agreed, looking forward to seeing what the more experienced Knight players have to say about the 3 new variants.  Here's hoping my Paladin isn't totally obsolete!

[ronin_cse]

mobility is one of the reasons I love the cerestus chassis knights so much, I took 4 to LVO and the power of 3d6 add them together on the run is terrifying. especially up a flank keeping your front face towards the enemy.

 

 

NASTY TRICK 1

 isn't it annoying when you charge a unit only to destroy it before you get a chance to stomp.[some TO's don't allow stomp to work on units outside the combat you are in....that galls me considering the picture showing it being used shows it being used on another unit of marines[there's twenty in the pic and only one in base contact].  well... if you charge through terrain everything goes at initiative one, so you always get your stomps.[not always the best to go at i1 but there are some choice moments. Also with the gallant being avaialable you can always choose to attack with the fist for ini1:)

 

 

Also.... does Gerantius actually function, I don't have his data slate, but.... could we put him in a formation?? it does say "any knight" heck make him the KING in the exalted formation and give him sanctuary, 4++ all round with a 2++ shield ws..like 7???

 

please someone check up his data slate thanks:)

 

Hmmm I never thought of that. You could even take your stomps first to whittle down cheaper models in a unit before taking out the higher value ones, like ICs, with the destroyer hits.

 

Also this SLIGHTLY bumps up the value of the gauntlet as all its attacks will happen at the same time as the stomps.

[CommodusXIII]

Agreed, looking forward to seeing what the more experienced Knight players have to say about the 3 new variants. Here's hoping my Paladin isn't totally obsolete!

Your Paladin has nothing to worry about. The big comparison will be between the Paladin and the Warden, and I think you'll find a lot of people divided on this. The Errant is closely related, but serves a different purpose. The Gallant and Crusader are specialist patterns.

 

The Paladin and Warden are both putting out decent-strength, decent AP shots. The difference will be between those players that prefer the Large Blast and Ordinance effects, and those that prefer a higher volume of traditional straight-up shots. The Warden might come out a bit ahead in TAC lists as they can threaten Flyers without the need for a carapace weapon, and Rending is a nice kick for heavy infantry and light vehicles. However, personally I'm going to prefer the battlecannon - even if it misses your intended unit, there's a chance that it'll hit something else. It's more psychological than the Gatling Cannon and Flyers aren't particularly common in my meta.

 

I'm going to pick up a Warden eventually, but the Paladin will always be my go-to pattern.

 

I'm not particularly impressed by the Crusader, and am not interested in the Gallant at all.

 

The Crusader is trying very hard to be a mini-Reaver. Because being pinned down in combat will be even more disastrous for the Crusader than other patterns - see my post above - they might lead their owners to be overly-cautious and reactionary. With something this expensive and shooting-focused, you can't afford to be back-pedaling. While it can still do quite a bit of damage in assault by being S10 AP2 base, in my experience the Destroyer attacks (even with Stomp) are worth their weight in gold.

 

The Gallant would shine in Apocalypse or against other Knight armies, when you'll be rushing into assault with other Super-Heavy Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures. Unlike like the other patterns, if this one isn't in combat with a big bad then you're doing something wrong. The problem is that you need appropriate targets - it's wasting its time against MEQs/TEQs and again suffers from back-pedaling (and inconsequential shooting) against massed infantry. Adding a carapace weapon would help increase its ranged effectiveness and make it a bit more well-rounded, but again it's meant to be in combat and thus those points would be wasted in its ideal environment.

 

Both the Crusader and the Gallant would be alright if taken as your third (or preferably fourth) Knight. For smaller Households, though, a single Errant and a number of Paladins and/or Wardens would be the ideal roster.

Edited May 7, 2015 by CommodusXIII