Tactica: Imperial Knights (Blood Angels and Cult done)

[Lord Ragnarok]

Praise Russ, thanks for that SW Ally portion!  My 7th edition knowledge is lacking...how do you grab objectives with mostly thunderwolves?

[Frater Cornelius]

Praise Russ, thanks for that SW Ally portion!  My 7th edition knowledge is lacking...how do you grab objectives with mostly thunderwolves?

 

You don't. That is not how melee armies work. They may get an objective on the way if it is opportune or they could consolidate towards one. But you never actively try to cap it at the cost of getting into melee. You mainly work on crippling the opponent, trying to cap objectives he is holding so you can do the killing and capping at the same time or mainly just focus on grabbing objectives on the way, like making a conga-line to get an objective but also move forward. The dynamic is completely different that your regular mid-range shooty army.

[Just4uCupCake]

Well, this review is more about how BA help a Knight and not how a Knight fits with BA. Hence these lists will include 2 IK minimum. If you are wondering how an IK might fit into your BA force, you can post your thoughts here and maybe we can help you.

 

Very well I plan on bringing the Baal strike force in a Death company heavy list With bare chain swords and Jump Packs to get around the field and Assault +1 str +1 int on charge for whole army benefits with Obj sec as well Running Sanguinary Guard with a priest for +1 WS and FNP a captain with the AP2 power sword in with DC. Throw in a sicaran or two. Bikes with grav. SO I'm running a very infantry heavy list im building missing a few templates and heavy firepower Which is where i want the Crusader to fit in with the gatlin cannon to mow down AP 3 targets and perhaps take a shot at the flyers use the melta cannon to blow up termies and vehicles and a storm spear pod to shoot at dreadknights or pop vehicles 

[Lord Ragnarok]

Hmmm not sure I can fit a flyer in with three Knights and TWC.Is the Flyer mandatory? 

[Frater Cornelius]

Hmmm not sure I can fit a flyer in with three Knights and TWC.Is the Flyer mandatory? 

 

No. The army is usually fast enough to cross the board before the flier comes in. I would only play a flyer in a list that is dedicated around that strategy. 2 IK + SW at 1850 is good. I would only really play 3 with such an expensive faction at around 2k points to be fair.

[Lord Ragnarok]

 

Hmmm not sure I can fit a flyer in with three Knights and TWC.Is the Flyer mandatory? 

 

No. The army is usually fast enough to cross the board before the flier comes in. I would only play a flyer in a list that is dedicated around that strategy. 2 IK + SW at 1850 is good. I would only really play 3 with such an expensive faction at around 2k points to be fair.

 

Yeah, I'm planning against 2000k, however duly noted on 1850.  If I drop down to that pts level I'll axe a knight. 

[magnusthetraitor]

I'm running four Knights at 1850 (Warden, Paladin w/ Stormspear, Paladin, Errant), with 315 pts to spare for allies.

So far, I've run Space Wolves and Cult Mechanicus as my allied contingent. 

SW:
Rune Priest w/ Meltabomb

2x Rhinos with 5 man Grey Hunter packs, w/ Meltagun

 

Cult:

Dominus

3x Destroyers with Grav

and 45 free points to spend on further turret weapons or a relic.

Its fun to play, but not extraordinarily good. Dropping one of the Knights seems like the best avenue for switching things up, giving me points to pick up some Skitarii Vanguard or Kastellan Robots and giving my opponents something else to shoot at with their anti infantry weapons.

The Destroyers were amazing with a Dominus tanking all of that fire. That 2+ armor save is fantastic with 3 wounds, and it would have been even better if I'd remembered he had feel no pain.

[bebe]

Skitarii Maniple 1010
2x 10 Vanguard - Omnispex - 3 Arc Rifle
2x 3 Sydonian Dragoons 
5 Skitarii Infiltators - Taser Goads - Flechette Pistols - Phase Taser
Onager Dune Crawler - Neutron Laser
Onager Dune Crawler - Icarus Array
 
Oathsworn Detachment: 840
Knight Warden - Melta - Stormshield Rocket Pod 
Knight Paladin - Melta - Stormshield Rocket Pod 

 

This has been my latest test list for IKs. I find two IKs are perfect for this list. My only issue is no ObSec but I generally am able to clear out ObSec troops anyway. I have to say - stormshield rocket pods are the bomb. They are well worth the extra points. Flyers and FMCs jink the minute I say I'm using them. And if there are no AA targets they are just fine shooting at ground targets. Onagers perform like mini-IKs - they have to be dealt with as well. I use the dragoons to flank the IKs of course. The whole list is mid-table turn one. It can really control the flow of the game.

 

As for the IKs I have both Warden and Paladin flexible enough for the needs of this list. As long as I have counter-charge units around they don't fall too uickly - I've a lost a few of course in some games. Thing is both halves of the list are very threatening. It makes my opponent's question their target priority.

[mcpolle]

Interesting list, what do you do against a Seer council?? That just hunts your Knights down???

[Frater Cornelius]

Knights are very good at stomping through the Seer Council. Stomp attacks ignore invisibility.

[mcpolle]

How do you get the Knights to survive the charge of the Seer council?? And Stomp is great if you roll the 6, other wise it's just a str 6 hit, so not that fantastic, and your knight is probably already dead.

Am having a seriously hard time against the new Eldar codex, it's sucking the fun out of 40 k for me>:-(

[Frater Cornelius]

Survive a charge from them? You mean the Armourbane swords? They need to roll far above average to glace it. As for the S6, Warlocks only have a 3+ save and they will be clumped up. You can count on one Warlock dying per Stomp, so at least D3 dead Warlocks per turn in addition to melee and 6s on Stomp.

[bebe]

That is the why you take the dragoons. Dragoons are always close by. And vanguard have a nice aura and weight of shots. This list is built to be charged. I don't see the Seer council being a major threat to this list. Now a bunch of warp spiders and dark reapers - well they would be a far more interesting match up.

Edited June 2, 2015 by bebe

[ChaosPhoenix]

 

Immersturm, great work, am enjoying this as much as I did your work on the SW page, great to see so much work going into this.

 

I am playing the Baronial court, and am using an Errant, Warden and a Crusader, all with the rocket pods, and the Warden is the Warlord, with IWND.

 

Am having great fun with them. lovely models. Just a shame I cannot play them in the Kiel cup :-(

 

Polle

 

Well, I already threw a massive rant about how the German TOs are massive morons. It is not just Kiel Cup but also the German Cup (Deutsche Meisterschaften). I am so pissed that I am close to selling off my Knights in favour of something else.

 

Ohhhh I feel your pain. That's why I've rarely visited tournaments here. Ok, I suck too, but comps, restrictions and everything are a massive pain here. Most germans seem to like that way though :-/

[Lucien Eilam]

Due to the way super-heavy walker shooting works, and the way the points values fall, I think it can be interesting to think of a Knight army in terms of its guns rather than as units, and then deciding how you want the army to play.

 

For example, say you decide you're going to need a thermal cannon, 2 battle cannons, and 3 gatling cannons.

 

For near enough the same points, you could field those guns as a reasonably balanced:

 

    Warden, Warden, Paladin, Errant, Crusader

 

Which ought to play more or less as suggested in this thread.

 

Or you could field them as:

 

    Warden, Errant, Crusader, Crusader, Gallant

 

Which I think would have a slightly more aggressive slant, with the Gallant and Errant wanting to get up close.

 

Or as a really extreme:

 

    Crusader, Crusader, Crusader, Gallant, Gallant

 

Which would probably be rubbish, but there has to be a lot of entertainment value in throwing two Gallants straight down your opponent's throat while your back line is free to blaze away at range.

 

Exactly the same firepower whichever way you go, but the play-style differs significantly.

[alexj89]

first, i really have to say  THANK YOU  for this topic. every IK lover MUST read it. obviouslly i hope u continue with content as soon as you can!!!

One thing, why you didnt mention the Adamantine lance ?

[Frater Cornelius]

I admit, I have been neglecting it between so many new SM releases that need play-testing and real life (I know, how dare I have one :D). I will get to AdLance in due time. But to be fair, I consider the Baronial Court superior due to the greater flexibility it brings, even though re-rollable 4++ is 9% better than a 3++.

[alexj89]

I admit, I have been neglecting it between so many new SM releases that need play-testing and real life (I know, how dare I have one ). I will get to AdLance in due time. But to be fair, I consider the Baronial Court superior due to the greater flexibility it brings, even though re-rollable 4++ is 9% better than a 3++.

 

Thanks for this explanation! =) btw, dont trust so much in that so called real life, it doent give you so much ... i mean, we're talkin about titan-size mech, my GF cant be compared to this :P

BTw,again, good work!;)

[Frater Cornelius]

 

I admit, I have been neglecting it between so many new SM releases that need play-testing and real life (I know, how dare I have one ). I will get to AdLance in due time. But to be fair, I consider the Baronial Court superior due to the greater flexibility it brings, even though re-rollable 4++ is 9% better than a 3++.

 

Thanks for this explanation! =) btw, dont trust so much in that so called real life, it doent give you so much ... i mean, we're talkin about titan-size mech, my GF cant be compared to this

BTw,again, good work!

 

 

Eh, I am currently GF-less anyway. There is plenty other things. Still comparison to giant mechs though :D

[Lucien Eilam]

The 3" spacing required by the Adamantine Lance means an adjacent Knight is at quite a risk of catching a Destroyer hit in the face when one of them dies. And that can cause a chain reaction right down the line.

 

The 6" spacing of the Baronial Court is a fair bit safer.

 

The Adamantine Lance bonus is a bit stronger though, and it does work in any direction where the Baronial Court only works to the front. With 3 Knights, a Court can find it harder to cover all the angles.

 

Obviously the Baronial Court also comes with a free Baron upgrade, access to Heirlooms, Warlord traits and arguably a stronger additional bonus in Counter-attack and Overwatch versus extra Hammer of Wrath hits, and it works for 3-5 Knights of any type, which to my mind makes the Lance rather redundant now.

[78zrider]

I just want to run three Knights (Pali,warden,errant) with something like librarius conclave and go to town with firepower too bad the point investment is so high to make it a competitive list

 

Use household detachment for obsec and librarius conclave for lots of casting

 

Or gallant lance formation with BA. That would look crazy cool imo

Edited June 25, 2015 by 78zrider

[Lucien Eilam]

I think the Baronial Court is a lot stronger than Household Detachment. They're never going to be any good at claiming objectives, even with Objective Secured.

[CommodusXIII]

I don't know about that, Knights have a lot of mobility if used correctly and can drive enemy units off objectives late in the game.

[Frater Cornelius]

I think the Baronial Court is a lot stronger than Household Detachment. They're never going to be any good at claiming objectives, even with Objective Secured.

You have to make a distinction between defensive holding and aggressive capturing. The former is now for IK, since they want to get stuck in ASAP. However, when an enemy unit is on an objective and you assault them with a Knight, you can push them off and claim it at the same time. You do not need Obj.Sec. for that though, it is true. The benefits from the Baronial Court are just too good to pass up.

[78zrider]

Anyone see the WD rules for the green knight? I'm sorry but that alone makes me want to run a baronial court plus him Edited June 26, 2015 by 78zrider