Prot's Thin Grey (Knight) Line vs Tau (Very Pic Hvy)

[Prot]

This is the game I was waiting for. My previous test was against Eldar which was a crushing defeat.... I would field the same list, and knowing even less about this Tau army, I had no idea what to expect.

I often like how in those old TV shows they gave you a glimpse of something really going sideways, and then leave you hanging on for what happened....

+++ ABOVE: How did it come to this? We see the mighty Draigo, and one brave warrior remain. Draigo using all his psychic energy is navigating through a 'live' Vortex round? A Riptide watches on in anticipation, while a squad of Fire Warriors stand frozen awaiting the outcome. Things don't look good, but to find out what happens.... read on.

++The Game++

- Maelstrom 1850 pts. My list is the same I just reported on, so I'll be brief:

Grey Knights

Draigo

2 x Librarian (WL3 + WL2) Staves

5 x Terminators, 1 psycannon, hammer, Falchions (Justicar)

5 x Terminators, same as above

5 x Interceptors, incinerator

2 x Nemesis Dreadknight, 1 Hvy Psycannon, 1 Hvy Incinerator, TP

5 x Purifiers, Hammer, Incinerator mounted in...

1 Stormraven, Homing device, MM, Assault cannons.

TAU:

(You'll have to excuse my ignorance. I haven't played Tau in ages. I'm not sure what the wargear is and forget most of the names!)

A Farsight Enclave (?) This was a red dude, with a long staff/sword that really seemed to be good at CC. He was in reserves with a bunch of suits, and drones. I guess this is a Tau deathstar of sorts.

3 Riptides. Various, nasty configurationss

1 tank... hammerhead?

1 squad of 3 railgun suits with a bodyguard of drones.

2 squads of Fire warriros.

+++ Farsight Enclave in reserves (you will see it here in the corner for some pictures, it isn't actually on the table.

+++ Grey Knights await deployment (Stormraven cut off in top of picture)

The Scenario / Deployment :

- Draigo, senses the Tau are ignorant pawns in this. But ignorance is no excuse and the Emperor's Will must be delivered to this chaotic planet.

- The Scenario is Maelstrom - (cleansing?) Where you only start with 1 Objective card, but it can only increase (up to 6) by holding objectives..... I have no objective secured.

- The Tau wins the roll off for sides, and deployment/first turn. I get the Warlord trait I'm looking for - First to the fray. So for psychic powers I get Gate on one libby, Vortex on both, Cleansing Flame, Purge Soul, and Hammerhand..... against this army I can't tell you how much I NEEDED ONE STUPID LIBRARIAN to get Sanctuary!! (not that I'm foreshadowing facing a brazillion AP2 shots or anything!) (I had 5 rolls at it, no Libra Daemonica)

- Tau deploy in a long thin line. It is my turn to deploy.... for the first time with this army, I look at the horror of 3 riptides, and all that AP2/1 stuff and that tank.... and I commit my entire NSF to Deep Strike / reserves. The Tau player then decides to give me first turn since he has no valid target.

+++ Tau Deployment: Cowardly, fishy, and hugging that back edge! (xenos are hard on the back. I think every game I've played I end up leaning over to my opponent's edge!) Please note in the top edge is a deployed tank, and behind that, the Farsight Enclave in reserves.

+++Game Start:+++

Turn 1:

- I immediately place my HQ Termie squad right in front of the railgun suits. I need objectives that revolve around a point I can't get because of ObSec on the fish. Nevertheless I do have the 'up to D3' Psychic powers card, which is very doable.

- The unfortunate secondary Librarian with the other 5 Termies scatters forward 9" just barely too close.... to the Tau Firewarriors. The squad misshaps... and is placed wherever my opponent wants to place them. He places them far back, I use a Run move to at least put them on an objective. (They would try to gate back into the action! But the Tau would cancel the psychic power! Obviously these fish are being steered by chaotic powers far beyond their understanding.)

- On the far right, off screen, the Interceptors come down on an objective in small ruins, just in front of a small firewarrior squad. I would flame them, down to 3 models, but the would not break. 2 Riptides look on in amusement.

- A Single NDK comes in, and Deep Strikes into a crater (has an Objective) and sits there behind the spot I want to put Draigo's squad into....

- Draigo and squad with the warlord trait roll a bullseye! I get off a cleansing flame, the righteous fire is not canceled and threatens to rip the squad apart, but it only kills 2 drones! Ouch. Feeling burned by Cleansing Flame, that dreadful feeling of desperation sets in. I am surrounded.

After seeing that only the NDK made it to help reinforce Draigo (the other squad misshapped, and canceled Gate), The Vortex Librarian known as Panicus Maximus, unleashes the Vortex. Draigo tries to stop him, but it is far too late, as this librarian knows the Litany of Vortex like the back of his hand.... all hell leashes forward..... and deviates on top of a Tau Suit! Only one is hit as it does not deviate.... but I roll a 6! Panicus Maximus squeals in delight as he is given a scolding glance from Draigo.

++ Draigo's Squad would teleport right onto that coin marker, and threaten the Rail Gun squad in front of him, and the Vortex would pulverize the middle suit into oblivion.

- My turn was pretty bad... only 3 casualties in the psychic phase, however, just off screen there is an NDK which uses his Run to get out of the crater and manage a side shot on the Hammerhead tank, and glances it to death with the flamer/cannon. First blood.

- My points total 4 as I rolled a 6 on the D3 points for successfully manifesting 3 psychic powers (beyond the canceled Gate)

+++Tau turn 1:+++

- The Tau player rolls scatter for the Vortex.... I don't even have to look, I know darn well what's about to happen....

++ In sudden flash of blinding green light, a Vortex bubble smashes down right on top of Draigo. The immense energy bubble crashes down with warp energy that causes THREE D wounds on Draigo. The mighty warrior raises his shield to the sky and the immense figure deflects the deadly energies back into the sky..... The Librarian, Panicus Maximum, backs up, and raises his hand to the smoking Warlord and quietly utters, " Sorry Draigo.... won't happen again."

- The Tau juggle positions. Panic does not set in for they see the advantage. Draigo, recovering from the mighty blast, turns to see a blaze of movement from the Tau.

- A golden Riptide jumps... some 20" on the left side of Draigo's squad. I have no idea why until I am told this Riptide is avenging the tank death, and he has positioned himself for a perfect mini-6" torrent flamer. AP2... he wounds 5 times at AP2!!! Wow. Then he informs me he can do this twice..... 5 more wounds... 10 saves. The squad takes another cannon shot from the Riptied plus surrounding firepower. The squad is reduced with mostly AP2 and AP1 firepower!

++ Draigo, and only 1 brave Terminator remain. The cowardly golden Riptide has the audacity to hide behind an imperial statue, as the Fire Warriors stare on in amusement. But Draigo still stands, defiant, and will need to recover...

- The Tau continue to fire, but only one of the Interceptors die. He needs the Interceptor's Objective Marker, but he has ObSec so he simply walks up to it, and steals it from me. D'oh! In the next turn I happen to draw a card that needs it back, but I can't get it without ObSec or wiping them out....

- The Tau turn ends, and scores 1 point to my 4 (including first blood).

+++Turn 2: +++

- My reserve rolls, the Stormraven with Purifiers comes in. The final unit, a Nemesis Dread Knight refuses to come in...

- Looking out at the battlefield, I felt in deep trouble. Draigo was only with one other Terminator now. The Golden Riptide had mulched about 400 points up like nothing, while I was making 'Guardsman' type saves with Terminators.

- Draigo needed to get out of the Vortex bubble before it deviated, and Gated a very dangerous position. He dropped in a corner of a Ruin that put him away from the Vortex, but between the remaining Rail Gun suit/drones, and 2 other Riptides.... Draigo would press forward and do as much damage as possible buying time for reinforcements which....

- in the form of the misshapp'd Terminators, reinforcement was supposed to come from this squad. They failed Gate! And instead were stuck in the back field on an objective again! With only a few stormbolter shots and psycannon they were stuck shooting through ruins at a few Fire Warriors, some of which died, but again, they would pass Moral tests. I counted about 4 moral tests in a row he passed with various units. Chaos was definitely at play.

- The Stormraven came in, only to be intercepted by another Riptide. The pilot jinked, and 2 pens were avoided, however a 3rd glance found its mark, reducing the Stormraven to 2 HPs.

++ The Stormraven soars into play. Actually firing at the golden Riptide to no effect. Upper left, Draigo and one remaining Terminator Gate over into the ruin to prepare for a final stand. On the upper right, the Riptide has killed the would be assaulters, while the Fire Warriors watch on in ruins.

- With the StormRaven in behind them, the Interceptors leapt over the Fire Warriors and decide the second Riptide had to be taken down. FNP and all these re-rolls from the formation were making these things a real pain.

- The Stormraven fired at the second Gold Riptide in hopes of softening it up for the Interceptors but no wounds got through.

- I made a plan to at least tie up the Riptides, if not take them down. On the left, my NDK rushed into the Golden Riptide that tore apart the termies. I forgot the Fear test, but still BARELY won the combat. He got off a FNP save, and I only caused one wound to his zero. So that was it... he would pass Moral again....

++ With Draigo Gating to the heart of the Tau defense, this NDK shoots, and rushes into the Riptide which nearly wiped Draigo's squad. The NDK would only cause one unsaved wound.

- The Interceptors passed Force, and Hammerhand! They went to rush the second Gold Riptide on the far right, with 4 left, and the hammer in the squad, this was my best chance. The Riptide fired up multiple guns, and with BS2 on Overwatch, he needed 5's, twin linked, and killed 3 of the Interceptors without saves, as only the one with twin Falchions would live into close combat! I did no wounds, and was killed by AP2 blow to the head.....

The end of my turn 2 was quite grim. I scored no points. Draigo awaited a barrage of fire. One riptide was held up by an NDK (barely) and the other 2 were now free.... But wait... it gets worse....

TAU Turn 2:

- The bottom of turn 2 and the cowardly Farsight decides to appear now that the Grey Knights are largely depleted.

- The farsight enclave sees a juicy target; the Terminators which have failed to Gate for 2 turns are a prime target. Seeing a tactical soft spot for all that AP2 weaponry the squad comes down, without deviation right smack in between my Terminators and my Stormraven....

++ The Grey Knight Terminators on the backlines wanted action badly, but even if I had access to Sanctuary, would I have foreseen this? Doubtful. A pile of hurt awaits the faithful of Titan......

++ The same scene from a distance. Tau drop in on the left to attack the terminators, while the other Tau scurry like scared animals at the 2 man Draigo squad in the enemy deployment zone.

- The Farsight Enclave put themselves into perfect firing position. A battery of firepower I couldn't even remember the name of basically reduced me to Guardsman armour yet again. After tremendous Look Out Sirs, and failed 5+ the squad was finally reduced to rubble. Gone. In a blink.

- Elsewhere Draigo's partner was shot down by cowardly fish people hiding behind rubble. Riptides couldn't fire this turn because of their trickery the turn before.... so they repositioned.

- The Warlord was actually this Librarian so he was uncermoniously pounded by the Enclave squad and gave up Slay the Warlord.

- At the end of Turn 2 it was 4-2 for the Grey Knights, but it felt over.... I had so little left... but moving on....

+++Turn 3+++

- To be honest, I was pretty beaten up. I did not want to call it though because I was learning a little more about the Tau in general from this game, and wanted to see what I could do from an 'educational' stand point.

- Let's be realistic though, at this point it looks something like this: I'm winning 4-2, but it's the top of turn 3, I can't draw any cards. He has a few objectives.

- I have lost: A full termie squad with Draigo down by a wound. Both Librarians now, and the 'I can't Gate if my life depended on it' Terminator squad. One NDK is stuck in reserve, the other one is somehow unable to defeat the shooty Golden Riptide, and is locked up. Draigo is alone in enemy territory, and I just lost all the Interceptors in an assault.

- Tau have lost: A tank, some suits, some firewarriors, a wound on a Riptide. (both firewarrior squads are small now, but nothing of his breaks from moral, so it's all still scoring.)

But Draigo is relentless and wants to come to grips with the Tau, face to face... just one time.

Grey Knight Turn 3:

- The second NDK comes in off reserves! It's a gamble, but I deep strike him about 8" in front of the cocky Farsight Enclave.... I deviate about 8" back...to my table edge, but am land safely.

- The Stormraven goes into hover mode, deploying the Purifier squad. It was a desperate move, but there was absolutely no way I wasn't going to engage this deathstar with whatever forces I could muster.

- Draigo moves out of cover, and ignites his force sword, and marches without hesitation to a Riptide.

- Psychic phase:

Draigo has Force. The dice are low, so I have to be efficient. The Purifiers get off Cleansing Flame, it hits the Farsight Enclave 10 times.... this is complicated. The closest models are drones.

We figure out that about 3-4 drones die, and a wound is taken on a suit.

The Purifiers roll and get Force off.

- Shooting phase:

Draigo pumps two Stormbolter rounds into the riptide, but rolls two 1's. Obviously he is furious and wanting to kill the Riptide in close combat.

- The NDK that just came in has a good target to shoot. For the first time ever, I see a beautiful opportunity to fire a large blast Psycannon at this squad. It takes 13 hits, which converts into 10 wounds. The Tau are starting to feel this... He rolls saves quite well though as almost none are rends. He only loses a few more drones, but the numbers are starting to finally catch up with him.

- The Purifier Squad unleashes another Incinerator, but still hardly wounds. Stormbolters are also nearly useless, but more wounds are appearing, the armour of the deathstar is faltering a tad, but not much at all.

- The Stormraven hovers up, and shoots at firewarriors, which cover save all wounds....

Now the big moment... Assault Phase.

- The NDK in the corner actually had this happen the Tau turn and I forgot so I'll just put this here, the NDK fought the Riptide, caused one wound, and the Riptide Failed Moral! Finally. It ran, but I could not sweep! However, hiding on your back line has its downfalls, and the golden robot ran off the table back to Tau-land.... I got very lucky there, and he got very unlucky (However all my lack of wounding might have been back luck too). This freed the NDK to assault this turn, and he chewed through the last railgun suit from that original squad that got the Vortex.

++ Is there a chance the Purifiers could avenge the Terminators?

- The NDK which just dropped in could not assault, but cheered on the Purifier Squad. As they rushed

in, they somehow dodge ALL overwatch from the enclave!!!

- The Challenge is accepted by the Farsight HQ, he cleaves the Purifier at AP3.... The other Purifiers hit the suits on the edges and hit hard.... with Force active, I wound about 6 of them I think.... The Tau player is stuck here... as he removes suits, I have to remind him that as a force weapon each suit is gone in one wound... he grimaces, and realizes he has to remove another couple of models, but this means his HQ could die!

His HQ is next in lined to take the 2-3 wounds, he doesn't want to of course, so he Looks Out Sir and passes them all, but tries removing drones in the back. We have a minor rules conflict here and other people around confirm it's closest models, which means his remaining suits die, and in total he has lost close combat by a massive margin..... He rolls an 11 and breaks, I roll a 2 to catch him... he rolls a 1 and is killed in the advance by the Purifiers!

- Draigo is elated at the news, his fury is still strong, and he rams into the Riptide hard, with his shield and sword, and fatally wounds the other golden robot 3 times with force blows.

+++ Grey Knight end of turn 3.

- The Tau player looks over the table... how things have flipped. I am shocked myself. I see he is as well. A game that looked well in hand, was now apparently out of reach for him. He said he could not come back from this, as he lost: 2 riptides, rail suits, his farsight enclave.

This left him with about 6 firewarriors, a shooty Riptide, and I think that's it... I had Draigo, one NDK with a wound left, a healthy NDK, a Stormraven and 3 Purifiers.

- He decided to play the bottom of his turn. He shot the Stormraven out of the sky, and conceded. With Slay the Warlord and line breaker, I would score 7 to his 2. I think he was shocked a bit.

++My personal MVP's.

- My personal MVP's as strange as it seems, considering how much died on both sides this is an obvious choice for me. I wouldn't have expected it considering the game type and opponent. For him I'd imagine the Riptides were amazingly efficient, and surprisingly resilient (that FNP was gross on those guys).

- Drago and 3 Purifiers (actually 4 but one died in the challenge) were the big performers. While Librarian Panicus Maximus will be reprimanded for the 100th time for his eager trigger finger on the Vortex power!

Thanks for reading!

[SyNidus]

Awesome battle and batrep! Really nice to see you stick it through and pull out that unexpected win.

 

A few points come to mind:-

 

- you really should put the two termie squads into one. That way you can still split them if need be, or if you get first to the fray you can always keep them together so the whole lot benefit.

 

- when Draigo and 1 termie survived, were they close to one of the Riptides? If they were, I'd split them up and have the termie declare charge first to draw overwatch, followed by Draigo charging in. As opposed to gating away from the vortex.

 

Other than that it's looking pretty good honestly. Well done!

[Prot]

Awesome battle and batrep! Really nice to see you stick it through and pull out that unexpected win.

A few points come to mind:-

- you really should put the two termie squads into one. That way you can still split them if need be, or if you get first to the fray you can always keep them together so the whole lot benefit.

- when Draigo and 1 termie survived, were they close to one of the Riptides? If they were, I'd split them up and have the termie declare charge first to draw overwatch, followed by Draigo charging in. As opposed to gating away from the vortex.

Other than that it's looking pretty good honestly. Well done!

Thank you Syn. The combating of two termie squads is definitely going into effect next game. I keep forgetting it as I'm actually playing an NSF and keep thinking I'm building a CAD. That's no excuse, just the reality of my simple mind. I think because I play so much Maelstrom it keeps bugging me losing the ObSec and I keep thinking NEXT game I'll play CAD, but by the time the game starts, I love the NSF for fun... and run. But always forget the combat squad routine as a result of swapping to NSF.

- I think even in hindsight I did the right thing with Draigo. For starters, I wanted to occupy multiple assaults, while avoiding the live Vortex. So the way it played out, I planned the NDK to charge the first Riptide. Then when the Riptide ran off the table, I moved the NDK closer to the drone and Railgun Suit. Standing next to that remnant squad was the Riptide that Draigo would assault...

The NDK rushed the Suit/drone to draw that overwatch and I was hoping he'd 'spend' his overwatch from the Riptide as well. He didn't fall for it. This left just Draigo to rush the last Gold Riptide, but his buddy (the Terminator) was already dead from cowardly Tau Fire Warrior firepower from the ruins to the right... in front of the black/red Riptide.

Sorry that's a bit confusing but a lot happened in that little moment, and I know I didn't write it all out in intimate detail for fear of this batrep turning into a total novel!

I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's a lot of working writing these up, recalling all important details, while bugging your opponent to let you take pictures. lol So I greatly appreciate it that anyone reads them.

[SyNidus]

Not sure if you saw the edit to my comment but I'll post it here:

 

Btw, what do you think you did well in this game? And what do you think you could've done better? Is there anything that you would change in your list? And if so, what and why?

 

These are questions I was trained with and it's a good way to learn for your next game :D

[Prot]

Not sure if you saw the edit to my comment but I'll post it here:

Btw, what do you think you did well in this game? And what do you think you could've done better? Is there anything that you would change in your list? And if so, what and why?

These are questions I was trained with and it's a good way to learn for your next game

Oh trust me... after every game while most of my opponents blame their dice, and bad luck, I ALWAYS look at what I did (with every army) and ask myself how to better mitigate bad luck. How did I mess this up?

Trust me after my Eldar game I knew instantly I was FAR too aggressive, but I also knew I was going to try it out as a test against a very shooty army knowing I was playing Tau the next day with the same list.

-My biggest uncertainty? Keeping everything in reserve with no reinforcement helper. The idea of trickling in a small army against an AP2/1 shooty army had me piddling my pants a bit.

- What did I do well? For a time, I was so fed up with leaning over the table every game, removing lots of points (not models, but points) with no real saves, I was feeling... well fed up. So at that low point, I snapped out of it, and said, how with only about 7 models + the Stormraven on the table, can I turn this around? How can I do that? And I figured it out with a lot of tight mathhammer and key things combined with a dash of luck and timing. Definitely -that- was my best moment. This took me from: ready to pack my crap up to a win.

- Done better? Hindsight is 20/20. Could I foresee a misshap + 2 failed Gates? Not really, but with First to the fray in effect, combining that squad into 1 would have ensured a very accurate start. But the scary thing is that makes my objective grabbing even more limited... gees now that I think of it, that stupid Gold Riptide would have killed twice as many terminators with his dual AP2 flamer....

Maybe it's a case of "I didn't know what to expect". When he ported over and torched me so easily... that was so disheartening it was a real challenge, never mind losing the other full Termie squad the next turn to an equally devastating, no save scenario.... gross really.

That's a tough one...

- Change in the list? I love Draigo. Absolutely love him, but being so overwhelmed with model count every game is going to catch up with me. I've been getting by with narrow victories and trying some real long shot strategies to compensate. That being said I've lost only one game in my last 10 or so and that was the Eldar disaster.... But every time that I take Draigo I think... man that's a beefy squad of Termies right there. Or even more....

One minor improvement is the Stormraven with only 1 Purifier min priced squad in there. When I had two squads in there, not coming on was too big a penalty.

I actually could see taking the Raven out and firing up 2 smoked Rhino's with 2 x 5 man Purifier squads. We play with moderate terrain, and I know everyone hates Rhino's but right now target priority is TOO easy for the opponent. My NDK's and Terminators take tremendous stress every shooting phase. I don't even force the opponent to make a tough choice right now! I may try this in the future.

I still can't get behind Strike squads. Not really seeing any reason to use them... yet. (Purifiers really should have deep strike... it just doesn't make any sense to me.)

Enough babbling... lots to think about from that game though.

[Radiation]

Great read!

[Happy-inquisitor]

Nice read, sounds like a fun game.

 

Of the riptides only one looks like an actual riptide in the pictures. What we have here as an xv104 (Riptide) along with an xv107 and xv109. The last of those is the one with the two-shot ap2 template. To be honest I think you got lucky keeping that thing in combat for the 2nd turn - it has both Hit and Run and a special Nova power that can get it out of combat. Worth noting for anyone else facing one - generally if you do not kill it first turn it is unlikely to be there for a second go.

 

For general information the xv107 is very tough but extremely expensive and horri-bad against GK with its AP4 weapons.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Great battle report man. Couple of things I'd do differently;

 

- Teleport homers: Get them on your Librarians at least, if not the Justicars as well. 

- Comms Array: I'd drop the Interceptors, they're not very good in this matchup. Getting your Terminators down Turn 1 and your Raven on Turn 2 is vital, Reserve delays really ruined you in this matchup I feel. I'd also use the additional points to either take Liber or up the ML2 Libby to ML3. 

- Dreadknights: Don't Reserve them, they need to be on-table. You can't charge Turn 1 anyway, so Shunting is a better Deepstrike

- Hammers: Get them on both Librarians. It's a 5pt upgrade that means you're an actual threat to his Riptides and Broadsides in melee. 

- Psychic powers: I don't know why you let your DK get into melee with a Riptide without turning on 'Force'. Otherwise, he would've murdered it handily with that single wound past its broken 3+ invul (you would've also denied any FNP rolls he made as well). 

 

I can't be too critical though, as to be honest Tau sorta do this whenever you don't take quad Dreadknight and shove it down their throat. Farsight Bomb is stupid and broken, as are the Riptide variants that basically replace Crisis in supplying AP2 spam. Also, the scatter on 'Vortex' screwed you like normal ;)

[Prot]

Great read!

Thanks!

Nice read, sounds like a fun game.

Of the riptides only one looks like an actual riptide in the pictures. What we have here as an xv104 (Riptide) along with an xv107 and xv109. The last of those is the one with the two-shot ap2 template. To be honest I think you got lucky keeping that thing in combat for the 2nd turn - it has both Hit and Run and a special Nova power that can get it out of combat. Worth noting for anyone else facing one - generally if you do not kill it first turn it is unlikely to be there for a second go.

For general information the xv107 is very tough but extremely expensive and horri-bad against GK with its AP4 weapons.

Thanks for the insight. All I saw was gold robots.... he referred to them as 'Riptides' and to me all xenos look the same. ;) But seriously, I do know he takes this list to tournaments, and most passers by thought I had no chance.... He kept trying to get away but couldn't. ..so I think you're right. But good to know as I didn't realize how survivable it was, as well as shooty... .gross really.

Great battle report man. Couple of things I'd do differently;

- Teleport homers: Get them on your Librarians at least, if not the Justicars as well.

- Comms Array: I'd drop the Interceptors, they're not very good in this matchup. Getting your Terminators down Turn 1 and your Raven on Turn 2 is vital, Reserve delays really ruined you in this matchup I feel. I'd also use the additional points to either take Liber or up the ML2 Libby to ML3.

- Dreadknights: Don't Reserve them, they need to be on-table. You can't charge Turn 1 anyway, so Shunting is a better Deepstrike

- Hammers: Get them on both Librarians. It's a 5pt upgrade that means you're an actual threat to his Riptides and Broadsides in melee.

- Psychic powers: I don't know why you let your DK get into melee with a Riptide without turning on 'Force'. Otherwise, he would've murdered it handily with that single wound past its broken 3+ invul (you would've also denied any FNP rolls he made as well).

I can't be too critical though, as to be honest Tau sorta do this whenever you don't take quad Dreadknight and shove it down their throat. Farsight Bomb is stupid and broken, as are the Riptide variants that basically replace Crisis in supplying AP2 spam. Also, the scatter on 'Vortex' screwed you like normal

- Teleport homers. I wish. I have one on the Raven. I have to take the list apart. It's too expensive.

- Comms array. Perhaps.... again, my list is too expensive, and feels just way too small.

- Dreadknights and Reserves:

This is a big one. I didn't want to just write back and say, 'I disagree' because I can't really say. I had to really think about this idea for a while. What would have happened if I DID put the Dreadknights directly into play?

My gut instinct is I would have lost.

With taking it all in reserves, I knew he'd forgo first turn... he'd have to. This gave me the first turn to shoot at him, instead of his army bearing down on 2 models.

This wasn't an easy decision at the time. I looked the table over and he had line of sight all the way to any where I could have placed them, and between the railgun suits, hammerhead tank, and riptides, I think I would have paid for that, plus (I also think this is very important) with only 2 models on the table and him having first turn he would have probably got his first point on Maelstrom. (It turned out I would delay his first point due to a deep strike from my interceptors)

So what happened instead?

I held everything back. He said 'go'.

I get in 2 termies, including Draigo, the Interceptors, and one Dreadknight.

I get to shoot first, unimpeded. I position for a "First Blood" point (potentially the easiest point in any game) off of his Hammerhead. This did tick him off greatly as he jinked, and thought for certain he was going to rip into me with it. (I positioned Termies in a way that made the Hammerhead priority #1 if the Dread failed.)

I get Vortex off, rip into his rail gun squad wit ha "6". Take some drones out... he could have VERY easily failed that leadership... but as you know he would somehow pass ALL of them until the last turn.

Because I went first, had no casualties, this allowed me to score 3 Points + First Blood, giving me 4 points on Turn 1.

As hard as it is to say 'what would have happened', what DID happen was the best I could have done given the opponent. Sure things went in the crapper big time after that, but that was more indicative of the opponent's possession of AP2 more than anything else.

So in 100% honesty, I can't say I would have put the Dread's down. That first turn strategy, the denial of first turn, might have actually won me the game. (Purely from a game objective point of view.) It was not a decision I took lightly, and perhaps was the longest consideration I had during the entire game.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

- Hammers: Get them on both Librarians. It's a 5pt upgrade that means you're an actual threat to his Riptides and Broadsides in melee.

- Psychic powers: I don't know why you let your DK get into melee with a Riptide without turning on 'Force'. Otherwise, he would've murdered it handily with that single wound past its broken 3+ invul (you would've also denied any FNP rolls he made as well).

- I have to think about this. Hammers. Now after several games, I realize that my Libbies will never be in Challenges. So a Hammer is good in this case. After playing against Eldar a few nights ago, the Stave was golden for 3+ denial on Doom, etc, etc. But yes, I can see how helpful it would have been..... *IF* I could have withstood one turn of focused shooting from all that AP2!!! lol (man that was sick)

- The Dreadknight vs Riptide. Here's what happened.... He hopped 20" over to my flank so that Draigo could not tank wounds. Then dual flamed and shot something else from that Riptide. The squad was erased like a fart in a wind storm.

My thought at that time was: that thing is insta death for my type of army. I MUST tie it up. Now me being ignorant of Tau, I had no idea this thing was 1) very hard to tie down, 2) had a FnP save, 3) was actually quite survivable!

When I figured out that yes, I needed Force, my army was SO depleted of Warp Charges, that in this rarest of situations, I felt like I never had enough dice after turn 1. That really sucked.... So much so that I kept giving Gate 3 D6 and still failed or had it canceled every turn... ugh.

In hindsight, yes, I should have went force. But the above was the order of events, including my ignorance to the units ability.

I did understand this issue later in the game, as every other assault I made, I had force turned on. I learned that lesson quickly. I did not realize how survivable they were.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In hindsight, he knew I did not know the current Tau meta very well. This is why I requested this game (I never normally know my opponent's decisions before hand intentionally).

A lot of people never thought I had a chance to win this game, and even a friend saw the game halfway through and kind of rolled his eyes at this guy's list and told me about the Farsight bomb being nasty.

In all fairness, the Tau guy told me upfront he doesn't play for fun. He doesn't play 'fun games' unless it's pre-arranged and he plays 40K to win. He's very polite, but made no qualms about it.... he's there to win.

I knew this going in. I did not alter my list at all (as most of you know I test ran it against Eldar). I was fine with it because I was getting a very good winning streak going and wanted to have a test of it.

Now at the end of the game, I could tell he was a bit hot. He must have asked 3 or more times for a rematch. I told him he'd have to buy the army off ebay and lend it to me if he wanted a rematch. ;)

I couldn't actually see defeating the army with anything else I have... Not even Necrons. Some of you may laugh at that, but his army was stupidly fast, and extremely penal. It was my Close Combat abilities and maneuvering via Gate/DS that won me the game. I believe my 'crons may have the survivability but not the offensive output of Force + Hammerhand to deal with all the multiwound, fast moving crap he had.

That was a hard fought game, on both sides. He was down to nothing, but it's not like I was untouched of course. It could have very easily went the other way..... But yea, that army is just plain gross.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

- Teleport homers. I wish. I have one on the Raven. I have to take the list apart. It's too expensive.

- Comms array. Perhaps.... again, my list is too expensive, and feels just way too small.

Drop the Interceptors. Your list can't afford them. With those saved points, invest in a Comms Array and teleport homers on key models.

- Dreadknights and Reserves:

This is a big one. I didn't want to just write back and say, 'I disagree' because I can't really say. I had to really think about this idea for a while. What would have happened if I DID put the Dreadknights directly into play?

My gut instinct is I would have lost.

With taking it all in reserves, I knew he'd forgo first turn... he'd have to. This gave me the first turn to shoot at him, instead of his army bearing down on 2 models.

This wasn't an easy decision at the time. I looked the table over and he had line of sight all the way to any where I could have placed them, and between the railgun suits, hammerhead tank, and riptides, I think I would have paid for that, plus (I also think this is very important) with only 2 models on the table and him having first turn he would have probably got his first point on Maelstrom. (It turned out I would delay his first point due to a deep strike from my interceptors)

So what happened instead?

I held everything back. He said 'go'.

I get in 2 termies, including Draigo, the Interceptors, and one Dreadknight.

I get to shoot first, unimpeded. I position for a "First Blood" point (potentially the easiest point in any game) off of his Hammerhead. This did tick him off greatly as he jinked, and thought for certain he was going to rip into me with it. (I positioned Termies in a way that made the Hammerhead priority #1 if the Dread failed.)

I get Vortex off, rip into his rail gun squad wit ha "6". Take some drones out... he could have VERY easily failed that leadership... but as you know he would somehow pass ALL of them until the last turn.

Because I went first, had no casualties, this allowed me to score 3 Points + First Blood, giving me 4 points on Turn 1.

As hard as it is to say 'what would have happened', what DID happen was the best I could have done given the opponent. Sure things went in the crapper big time after that, but that was more indicative of the opponent's possession of AP2 more than anything else.

So in 100% honesty, I can't say I would have put the Dread's down. That first turn strategy, the denial of first turn, might have actually won me the game. (Purely from a game objective point of view.) It was not a decision I took lightly, and perhaps was the longest consideration I had during the entire game.

Okay, but if you're gonna hold things back to deny enemy Shooting, you need Comms Array. Period. Without any kind of Reserves tech, you will suffer heavily (as you did) for delayed Reserves. I get what you're saying, in this matchup it proved handy to prevent you getting counter-alpha'd by Tau Shooting. Be aware that is a judgement call though. As a general rule, I only Reserve if I think I can get more out of the unit by doing so. Ie, Terminators benefit immensely from DS and 'Rites'. Ravens have to Reserve, so you don't get a choice there. Purifiers will have to as well if they wish to ride in the Raven, so that also forces you hand. But DK's? Provided you don't play on Planet Bowlingball, you should have at least two pieces of LOS-blocking terrain tall enough to hide DK's behind. If not, by all means hide them in Reserve. However, if doing so, you need the Comms Array.

- I have to think about this. Hammers. Now after several games, I realize that my Libbies will never be in Challenges. So a Hammer is good in this case. After playing against Eldar a few nights ago, the Stave was golden for 3+ denial on Doom, etc, etc. But yes, I can see how helpful it would have been..... *IF* I could have withstood one turn of focused shooting from all that AP2!!! lol (man that was sick)

Honestly, I've never found the staves useful. Adamantium Will on paper sounds great, but it's literally never mattered in any game for me. Eldar are usually too busy casting a billion Blessings onto their own stuff to bother casting hexes or witchfires (they really don't need to, and they're aware of our psychic advantages). Hammers get the job done and mitigate the 2A nature of Libby's (so even if you only hit once, you hit like a freight train coated in razor blades).

- The Dreadknight vs Riptide. Here's what happened.... He hopped 20" over to my flank so that Draigo could not tank wounds. Then dual flamed and shot something else from that Riptide. The squad was erased like a fart in a wind storm.

My thought at that time was: that thing is insta death for my type of army. I MUST tie it up. Now me being ignorant of Tau, I had no idea this thing was 1) very hard to tie down, 2) had a FnP save, 3) was actually quite survivable!

When I figured out that yes, I needed Force, my army was SO depleted of Warp Charges, that in this rarest of situations, I felt like I never had enough dice after turn 1. That really sucked.... So much so that I kept giving Gate 3 D6 and still failed or had it canceled every turn... ugh.

In hindsight, yes, I should have went force. But the above was the order of events, including my ignorance to the units ability.

I did understand this issue later in the game, as every other assault I made, I had force turned on. I learned that lesson quickly. I did not realize how survivable they were.

And of course, on reflection, I hope you understand that you should only cast 'Gate' on 4+ dice or not at all. It's not a power you can live without if you really need it. Likewise, if you need dice for other stuff, prioritise. 'Gate' doesn't have to happen every turn, it's mainly to either get things into range to do stuff, or for objective grabs late in the game.

Riptides are unkillable unless you have both AP2 and 'Force'/Destroyer/some other ID ability. Between their 2+ armour, 3+ invul, 5+ FNP (never see them without Stims anymore) and 5 wounds, they're utterly insane. Get 'Force' up and ensure the kill. Its pretty stupid that a DK can still fail to kill it, despite have S10 AP2 at WS5/I4.

n hindsight, he knew I did not know the current Tau meta very well. This is why I requested this game (I never normally know my opponent's decisions before hand intentionally).

A lot of people never thought I had a chance to win this game, and even a friend saw the game halfway through and kind of rolled his eyes at this guy's list and told me about the Farsight bomb being nasty.

In all fairness, the Tau guy told me upfront he doesn't play for fun. He doesn't play 'fun games' unless it's pre-arranged and he plays 40K to win. He's very polite, but made no qualms about it.... he's there to win.

I knew this going in. I did not alter my list at all (as most of you know I test ran it against Eldar). I was fine with it because I was getting a very good winning streak going and wanted to have a test of it.

Now at the end of the game, I could tell he was a bit hot. He must have asked 3 or more times for a rematch. I told him he'd have to buy the army off ebay and lend it to me if he wanted a rematch.

I couldn't actually see defeating the army with anything else I have... Not even Necrons. Some of you may laugh at that, but his army was stupidly fast, and extremely penal. It was my Close Combat abilities and maneuvering via Gate/DS that won me the game. I believe my 'crons may have the survivability but not the offensive output of Force + Hammerhand to deal with all the multiwound, fast moving crap he had.

That was a hard fought game, on both sides. He was down to nothing, but it's not like I was untouched of course. It could have very easily went the other way..... But yea, that army is just plain gross.

Before the Eldar and Necron books came out, I would've said Tau are our worst matchup by far. Having seen the absurd broken stuff Necrons and Eldar can do now, I'd just say Tau are a strong matchup that has yet to ascend to the heights of its fellow xenos (yet). Necrons can defeat Tau. They specialise in not dying, and once Warrior blobs make melee, they're just marginally better than Tau enough to swing things their way. As for Necron melee specialists...Wraiths laugh off Tau shooting and eat battlesuits alive. C'Tan are a pain to deal with too. Point being, Necrons out-attrition most armies these days, and their offensive capabilities are on par with Tau for the most part (they lack AP2 at range though).

[Prot]

Necrons can defeat Tau. They specialise in not dying, and once Warrior blobs make melee, they're just marginally better than Tau enough to swing things their way. As for Necron melee specialists...Wraiths laugh off Tau shooting and eat battlesuits alive. C'Tan are a pain to deal with too. Point being, Necrons out-attrition most armies these days, and their offensive capabilities are on par with Tau for the most part (they lack AP2 at range though).

 

 

I won't argue with you, as this isn't the forum for it, but Necrons have tremendous issues with 2+ saves. C'tan? Who fields C'tan? I do it for fun, but if you see a guy fielding C'tan, count yourself lucky and enjoy the free win.

 

Playing Grey Knights down is something I very commonly see in this forum. It's unfortunate. To me, bringing up your tactics is a far more constructive conversation.

 

I feel in my win during this game, I could not have done it with many (any?) other army. It takes something very capable to come back from the deficit I had. We can look at the guy I played against, however he is a seasoned tournament player, and perhaps part of his problem was he felt I was tabled in turn 2. All I can say is that even with 7 models left, this army was capable of turning around a staggering loss in numbers to make my opponent concede.

 

I think right now, if I had to go to a non-ally tournament (once you include allies, I don't believe you take an army anymore, you take models), I'd probably give my best all around chances to Grey Knights. I'm not saying I'd win it all... heck no, but man this army gives you a chance in many situations and the fact is I always feel .... quite honestly that I have a -chance- against most things.

 

That's just my two cents.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Not sure if you saw the edit to my comment but I'll post it here:

Btw, what do you think you did well in this game? And what do you think you could've done better? Is there anything that you would change in your list? And if so, what and why?

These are questions I was trained with and it's a good way to learn for your next game

Oh trust me... after every game while most of my opponents blame their dice, and bad luck, I ALWAYS look at what I did (with every army) and ask myself how to better mitigate bad luck. How did I mess this up?

Trust me after my Eldar game I knew instantly I was FAR too aggressive, but I also knew I was going to try it out as a test against a very shooty army knowing I was playing Tau the next day with the same list.

-My biggest uncertainty? Keeping everything in reserve with no reinforcement helper. The idea of trickling in a small army against an AP2/1 shooty army had me piddling my pants a bit.

- What did I do well? For a time, I was so fed up with leaning over the table every game, removing lots of points (not models, but points) with no real saves, I was feeling... well fed up. So at that low point, I snapped out of it, and said, how with only about 7 models + the Stormraven on the table, can I turn this around? How can I do that? And I figured it out with a lot of tight mathhammer and key things combined with a dash of luck and timing. Definitely -that- was my best moment. This took me from: ready to pack my crap up to a win.

- Done better? Hindsight is 20/20. Could I foresee a misshap + 2 failed Gates? Not really, but with First to the fray in effect, combining that squad into 1 would have ensured a very accurate start. But the scary thing is that makes my objective grabbing even more limited... gees now that I think of it, that stupid Gold Riptide would have killed twice as many terminators with his dual AP2 flamer....

ally seeing any reason to use them... yet. (Purifiers really should have deep strike... it just doesn't make any sense to me.)

Enough babbling... lots to think about from that game though.

So although you were not made to pay for the mistake - failing to activate force when assaulting the Y'Vara can easily lose you the game. If you do not kill it in the first turn of combat it has a close to 80% chance of getting away to alpha-strike you again. By MC standards this variant is a bit of a glass cannon but it is definitely a dangerous one and you need to use its very short range to charge it down and kill it immediately.

Of course it is a dice game and just because something is probable - the Y'Vara getting away to devastate another squad - does not mean that it will happen.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I won't argue with you, as this isn't the forum for it, but Necrons have tremendous issues with 2+ saves. C'tan? Who fields C'tan? I do it for fun, but if you see a guy fielding C'tan, count yourself lucky and enjoy the free win.

 

I agree they basically can't kill DK's at range, but they can torrent Terminators to death quite effectively (lots of S4-7 to spam at them). I don't think C'Tan are that bad, but I don't play the army so I'll defer to your judgement. 

Playing Grey Knights down is something I very commonly see in this forum. It's unfortunate. To me, bringing up your tactics is a far more constructive conversation.

 

We're realists. I wrote the Primers not to be negative, but to show people the hill they have to climb playing this army. It's not a beginners faction, and even great players have thus far been unable to pilot any build to the top tables of tournaments. I think GK are challenging to play at the best of times, and downright underdogs in a lot of key matchups. We don't have room for mistakes, or sub-par ideas. I don't equate being constructive and realistic about GK with 'playing down' the army. We're not a tier 1 force, not for quite some time now. 

Neither are we the worst army, because we still have the tools to be competitive (in melee there is little we can't destroy, and our shooting is decent and flexible). Allies vastly improve our chances, because they plug giant holes in our tactics and strategy that we can't fill with a pure build. 

I feel in my win during this game, I could not have done it with many (any?) other army. It takes something very capable to come back from the deficit I had. We can look at the guy I played against, however he is a seasoned tournament player, and perhaps part of his problem was he felt I was tabled in turn 2. All I can say is that even with 7 models left, this army was capable of turning around a staggering loss in numbers to make my opponent concede.

 

Yeah, but you got lucky. Which can happen to any army, I might add. You could've just as easily been table wiped. I would go far as saying that with 7 dudes left, your odds of pulling out a win were rapidly approaching zero. 'Vortex' seems to be your silver bullet right now ;) so I'd stay on that. As for me? I find psychic powers a coin flip at the best of times, and 'Vortex' plays like Tzeentch incarnate (everything about it is RNG turned up to 11). 

 

I would also say that Tau are interesting, in that if you make it into melee even with just a handful of units, you will win. Period. They have no out once you're actually in their face, stabbing them to death. Low WS, Initiative, no power weapons of any kind besides Farsight, and average Leadership across the board (which Ethereals help with but they melt to even a single Knight in melee) means you have to roll insanely bad to fail to wipe them out. Getting there of course is the issue, and its what makes the matchup so scary for both sides. We're death incarnate in melee, but they're death incarnate at range. Very swingy. Add in psychic shenanigans (which Tau largely can't deal with besides lucky Hail Mary Deny attempts with all their dice), and GK's ability to rapidly close the distance...Tau basically have to win hard early or it's GG. Same for us. 

I think right now, if I had to go to a non-ally tournament (once you include allies, I don't believe you take an army anymore, you take models), I'd probably give my best all around chances to Grey Knights. I'm not saying I'd win it all... heck no, but man this army gives you a chance in many situations and the fact is I always feel .... quite honestly that I have a -chance- against most things.

 

We're probably the ultimate generalist force in 40k, with a clear bias for melee however. I agree with you there. However, the flipside of that is we're the most expensive army and have the fewest models on table. So, we either win big or lose big ;) . Also, we severely hard-counter Daemons and Tyranids, which takes out two tier 1 forces from the start. Eldar run rings around us, but like Tau will fold in melee barring their specialists. Tau we've already discussed, they're like Eldar that go all-in on Shooting and give up melee entirely. Necrons are stupidly durable, but they don't find it easy to kill us at range due to a lack of AP2 shooting (they do have it though, it's just rare). 

 

On a broader note, I think 40k meta is shifting away from Deathstars and things like Knight-Titans, in favour of infantry dominance. Destroyer proliferation (Eldar being the pinnacle of it) is making such things very risky now. 1-wound units however, be they elite or horde, largely don't notice. If the meta-game shifts in favour of infantry, our fortunes lift immensely. It's still early days though, Necrons and Eldar will take a while to shake out. 

[SyNidus]

 

 

Necrons can defeat Tau. They specialise in not dying, and once Warrior blobs make melee, they're just marginally better than Tau enough to swing things their way. As for Necron melee specialists...Wraiths laugh off Tau shooting and eat battlesuits alive. C'Tan are a pain to deal with too. Point being, Necrons out-attrition most armies these days, and their offensive capabilities are on par with Tau for the most part (they lack AP2 at range though).

 

 

I won't argue with you, as this isn't the forum for it, but Necrons have tremendous issues with 2+ saves. C'tan? Who fields C'tan? I do it for fun, but if you see a guy fielding C'tan, count yourself lucky and enjoy the free win.

 

Playing Grey Knights down is something I very commonly see in this forum. It's unfortunate. To me, bringing up your tactics is a far more constructive conversation.

 

I feel in my win during this game, I could not have done it with many (any?) other army. It takes something very capable to come back from the deficit I had. We can look at the guy I played against, however he is a seasoned tournament player, and perhaps part of his problem was he felt I was tabled in turn 2. All I can say is that even with 7 models left, this army was capable of turning around a staggering loss in numbers to make my opponent concede.

 

I think right now, if I had to go to a non-ally tournament (once you include allies, I don't believe you take an army anymore, you take models), I'd probably give my best all around chances to Grey Knights. I'm not saying I'd win it all... heck no, but man this army gives you a chance in many situations and the fact is I always feel .... quite honestly that I have a -chance- against most things.

 

That's just my two cents.

I think playing the army down is definitely a big problem here. Almost feels like this is CSM forums post 3.5. We have a lot of options it just requires a little creativity and good old fashioned balls of steel (or ceramite ;) ). Anywhoo, Prot, you're explanation for your choices makes sense. While I too thought that keeping the NDKs in reserve was a risk, I think that's a tactic that I might employ. If I want to get first turn, but didn't win the roll off, I could force the opponent to give me first turn.

 

I think the psychological factor in this game definitely played a big part, he had a lot of confidence and that showed. In how he split up the farsight bomb from the Riptides. This allowed Draigo to go in for the charge.

 

And I hope you didn't take offense when I mentioned about post-battle reflections. It's something that helps me and I shared because not everyone does that. :D

 

You really wanna mess things up for him, agree to a rematch but bring another army XD

[Prot]

Necrons can defeat Tau. They specialise in not dying, and once Warrior blobs make melee, they're just marginally better than Tau enough to swing things their way. As for Necron melee specialists...Wraiths laugh off Tau shooting and eat battlesuits alive. C'Tan are a pain to deal with too. Point being, Necrons out-attrition most armies these days, and their offensive capabilities are on par with Tau for the most part (they lack AP2 at range though).

I won't argue with you, as this isn't the forum for it, but Necrons have tremendous issues with 2+ saves. C'tan? Who fields C'tan? I do it for fun, but if you see a guy fielding C'tan, count yourself lucky and enjoy the free win.

Playing Grey Knights down is something I very commonly see in this forum. It's unfortunate. To me, bringing up your tactics is a far more constructive conversation.

I feel in my win during this game, I could not have done it with many (any?) other army. It takes something very capable to come back from the deficit I had. We can look at the guy I played against, however he is a seasoned tournament player, and perhaps part of his problem was he felt I was tabled in turn 2. All I can say is that even with 7 models left, this army was capable of turning around a staggering loss in numbers to make my opponent concede.

I think right now, if I had to go to a non-ally tournament (once you include allies, I don't believe you take an army anymore, you take models), I'd probably give my best all around chances to Grey Knights. I'm not saying I'd win it all... heck no, but man this army gives you a chance in many situations and the fact is I always feel .... quite honestly that I have a -chance- against most things.

That's just my two cents.

I think playing the army down is definitely a big problem here. Almost feels like this is CSM forums post 3.5. We have a lot of options it just requires a little creativity and good old fashioned balls of steel (or ceramite ). Anywhoo, Prot, you're explanation for your choices makes sense. While I too thought that keeping the NDKs in reserve was a risk, I think that's a tactic that I might employ. If I want to get first turn, but didn't win the roll off, I could force the opponent to give me first turn.

I think the psychological factor in this game definitely played a big part, he had a lot of confidence and that showed. In how he split up the farsight bomb from the Riptides. This allowed Draigo to go in for the charge.

And I hope you didn't take offense when I mentioned about post-battle reflections. It's something that helps me and I shared because not everyone does that.

You really wanna mess things up for him, agree to a rematch but bring another army XD

Yea, it's almost like people feel a need to... defend having a good army sometimes, or playing it down. The game is so immense right now...

Anyway, heck no offense at all. Every game I'm getting better and better with these guys, but I do hate to admit this but less and less people want to play against this army. It sounds bloody crazy to actually type this but I think in general they prefer my non-Decurion Necrons.... A few weeks ago I had people asking for rematches, and I satisfied all those requests. They don't ask anymore.

The Ork Warboss FnP biker guy who was on a bit of a run, totally was stuck on that list... he even rail roaded my Decurion Necrons with that stupid squad I could not seem to beat with my necrons (Too many fists, not enough killy)..... I've had 2 games with my Grey Knights, and he's dismantled the list. If I get force off, and line up the challenges ,he's finished. No saves, at all, no FnP, no 3+ , so he can't even leverage lucky stick because... .there's no dice to re-roll.

Same with the Blood Angels guy, and perhaps one of the most 'annoying' armies I play against, the Dark Eldar. (It kind of just swims around the table like mosquitoes, buzzing and hopes you finally get bit enough that you fall over.)

I know you also gave a beat down to a Necron tournie army (I think that guy was using C'tan though, right?) The one thing I find is the 'force' factor is big. It's never something I counted on being a game changer, but FnP and multiwounds is getting more and more common. This just erases a big pile of that. Adjusting Reanimation Protocols is also a bonus.... heck if the person actually isn't using a Decurion, chances are they're running a 6+ RP roll which I can tell you sucks...

GK are definitely a fine crafted instrument, but there's not too many wounds they can't open up. There are hard match ups, tough opponents, and bad scenarios, but the army usually gives me a chance. This game is just a perfect example. I still reflect on it and think what in my arsenal would have been able to come back from this? I don't think anything to be 100% honest.

I appreciate the feedback, and that's why I do this! Thanks for reading.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Keep the batreps coming man. We may not agree on everything, but you at least put your ideas to the test and show us how to Vortex ;) you've almost got me convinced to give up on Divination and go full Sanctic like a madman. 

[Prot]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

I guess historically in this game I always tend to go the path less travelled, even if it's an uphill battle. This probably explains a lot in my life now that I think of it. lol

But the result is sometimes I find success in areas where even I don't think I'll find it. I did something similar with Dark Angels. I ended up finding this weird tournament build I called Az-Zeke bomb. It's based on a largely unused list I came up with taking advantage of Azrael's warlord traits. It's not something I think I could only do, but the point is no one was doing it (that I knew of) and of course everyone thinks it's horrible.

I really like finding the diamond in the rough... even if it results in Vortexing Draigo every now and then ! (good thing he's got a good hiding spot in the warp!)

I enjoy the challenge of being unconventional. But I think I've done most of what I set out to do with GK. It's a seriously fun army, and one of the rare "Space Marine" armies that feels even close to how it reads. I honestly believe that. (How powerful does it feel to have Draigo walk up to something 6 feet taller than him, armed to the teeth, and strike it down, through the heart, in one blow? Man that feels (for the greater) GOOOD! lol)

[SyNidus]

Lost against the crons but I made them bleed....a lot.

 

Aye, I know what you mean about the path less travelled. I held off buying the GK because I thought other people already had the army, but I haven't seen anyone else with it. Perhaps a new blood in one of the other game stores is using GK, but everyone seems to have written it off as uncompetitive.

 

Although I've done my part to change that perception.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think it's a bit much to say we're not competitive at all. We're not Sisters bad. I'd say we're tier 2, because we have enough good matchups (Daemons and Tyranids hate us with a passion) and good tech ('Force' in melee and to a more limited extent at range is amazing as an equaliser). It's just getting into melee alive which is the issue. 40k is far too biased in favour of shooting armies still, and GW don't help matters by exponentially increasing the firepower of every codex update. We're also an army that punishes mistakes very hard, and we don't do attrition at all. So, I can see why new players or the more ignorant members of the community would write us off. Their loss, I say. 

[TheMostGood]

As a Tau player, I find the Farsight bomb to be mediocre. It's extremely point heavy for what it does. We're talking 700-900pts or more depending on makeup. Points that come down on turn two (maybe), that can easily fail combat, has a huge footprint, and mobility problems. 

It's scary on paper, but is easily defeated if handled properly. Prot is fortunate that his opponent did not FARsee the purifiers swooping in, and this highlights some of the problems with the bomb itself. 

Tau need all guns blazing turn one. 

You're also a good sport to play against the Flamer Riptide variant as it is still considered "experimental rules" by FW. I have yet to take it against my friends because I feel it would be unsporty like. It's rather strong. 

Overall you did an excellent job against this match up. This game is and always has been about objectives. You focused on the objective part of the game, and it brought you success.  

[Prot]

Honestly, your take on the enclave bomb and its short comings just described my Draigo/Libby/Termie Wing. I'm getting 7 models, that when they came down did nothing.... so I panicked (as I do when my Psychic phase goes awry ) and I vortexed! 

 

It was then that he ported over flamey RIptide and deleted all but Draigo in that unit. You want to talk about 'bombs' that don't work?! The difference is, the Tau guy isn't relying so heavily on his enclave bomb.... I ended up winning with 7 models. Very fortunate for me.

 

When I did get lucky enough to eliminate the enclave bomb, I was still looking at 3 riptides, suits with railguns, some fish, etc, etc. He said his army was small model count, but it looked 'normal' to me. lol

 

Anyway, that is the nature of such units. The flamer Riptide was something I was unaware of and it was quite nasty.

 

My honest impression? Being truthful that list didn't feel like something I'd want to play again, unless I was prepping for a tournament. I say this about the list, not the opponent. But it feels incredibly.... unfair (?) to pay so many points for these terminators and roll 5+ for their saves the majority of the game. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

As a Tau player, I find the Farsight bomb to be mediocre. It's extremely point heavy for what it does. We're talking 700-900pts or more depending on makeup. Points that come down on turn two (maybe), that can easily fail combat, has a huge footprint, and mobility problems. 

 

Er, wut? Yeah, it's a Deathstar. That's the point. All you need is a Comms Array to bring them in reliably, same as us. And it doesn't scatter, which is huge for such a big unit. 

 

Fail in combat? What combat? The turn you arrive, you shoot a billion AP2/1 shots into the enemy, with Split Fire, twin-link, Ignore Cover...I've had Farsight bomb wipe out half my army the turn it arrived. It's utterly broken. And, when you shoot them back, you have to chew through ablative gun drones, which they don't care about losing. Plus, they usually tank your shots onto the Iridium Support 'O, who then just Look Out Sir! any problem wounds to the drones. On top of that, when you charge them, you eat Overwatch on a truly stupid scale (yes I know the Ignore Cover and twin-link don't trigger, but they barely need that to deny you the charge). All they need to do is kill the closest couple of models, and you will probably fail you charge roll. You then eat another round of shooting, and same thing again. I've never seen combat work against Farsight Bomb. They just kill you before it's even doable. 

 

Mobility problems? They Deepstrike without scatter, and they're Tau Crisis. They have 6" normal move and 2D6" assault move. 

It's scary on paper, but is easily defeated if handled properly. Prot is fortunate that his opponent did not FARsee the purifiers swooping in, and this highlights some of the problems with the bomb itself. 

 

It's scary IRL. Short of some D-weaponry or S10 large blasts, there isn't much that can cut through it. That's assuming you have anything left after they alpha strike you. 

You're also a good sport to play against the Flamer Riptide variant as it is still considered "experimental rules" by FW. I have yet to take it against my friends because I feel it would be unsporty like. It's rather strong.

 

It's broken. I dunno what they were thinking making it. 

My honest impression? Being truthful that list didn't feel like something I'd want to play again, unless I was prepping for a tournament. I say this about the list, not the opponent. But it feels incredibly.... unfair (?) to pay so many points for these terminators and roll 5+ for their saves the majority of the game. 

 

That's what playing Farsight Bomb feels like. Your entire army is made of paper, and they're a blowtorch. It's a sad joke, because even with the expenditure on the Bomb, they can still squeeze in Riptides for horde clearance and even a Broadside team or two for AA. 

[Prot]

In this case, ignorance is bliss.

 

Quite literally strangers were walking up to the table who knew his army and were commenting (quietly) that it was really a nasty build.  A friend came in the store, when the guy was out of ear shot (this was just after I lost Driago's squad to the double flamer guy) the Enclave and just landed without deviation and I was still 'unaware' of what was about to go down... my friend leaned over to me and told me this was banned at the last tournament he was at....

 

It was about here that I knew how bad it was going to be. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

In this case, ignorance is bliss.

 

Quite literally strangers were walking up to the table who knew his army and were commenting (quietly) that it was really a nasty build.  A friend came in the store, when the guy was out of ear shot (this was just after I lost Driago's squad to the double flamer guy) the Enclave and just landed without deviation and I was still 'unaware' of what was about to go down... my friend leaned over to me and told me this was banned at the last tournament he was at....

 

It was about here that I knew how bad it was going to be. 

 

Yeah it's legitimately retarded how strong the Bomb is. And yeah, it is typically banned at a lot of tournaments (the ones who indulge in unit banning that is, outside of the usual narrow-minded 'Forge World is the work of Satan' comp you see). 

 

Personally, after seeing what Eldar and Necrons can do now, I think Farsight Bomb is strong but no longer the most OP thing around. It's stupid for any normal army to fight, but the tier 1 armies all have ways to deal with it. Daemons have their own Deathstar, Tyranids drown them in bodies, Necrons lose maybe a Warrior blob, then send in Wraiths to Rend them to death, Eldar have the D...I mean even Knight-Titans have the thermal cannon for nuking them (provided you can keep the Errant alive of course). 

[Happy-inquisitor]

In this case, ignorance is bliss.

 

Quite literally strangers were walking up to the table who knew his army and were commenting (quietly) that it was really a nasty build.  A friend came in the store, when the guy was out of ear shot (this was just after I lost Driago's squad to the double flamer guy) the Enclave and just landed without deviation and I was still 'unaware' of what was about to go down... my friend leaned over to me and told me this was banned at the last tournament he was at....

 

It was about here that I knew how bad it was going to be. 

 

Ignorance is.....well the dice gods smiled on you just enough that it did not matter :)

 

The Y'Vara is a brutal alpha-strike weapon and anyone who understands what it does and relies on 2+ saves in their army will make it their #1 target priority. Under no circumstances would I be holding back dice when it comes to activating force to kill it. I would probably not waste my shooting phase on a Hammerhead when that is there and needs dealing with.

 

As I said, it is more fragile than a regular Riptide but it is brutal at short range and it has tricks which mean it usually escapes combat to hit you with its awesome firepower again if you fail to finish it turn one.

 

However there is no evidence that it is "broken" or anything other than powerful, balanced and correctly costed. Nobody is suddenly cleaning up across the tournament scene with them, so far as I know nobody has yet won a big tournament with one at all. It is very expensive and happens to make units with 2+ saves cry.

 

By contrast the other forgeworld unit he had - the R'Varna - was OP when it first came out and then got nerfed into the ground. It is a nice model but sub-optimal for its vast cost unless your opponent obligingly brings lots of models with 4+ saves and the bulky rule.

 

What I don't understand is why he let you go first if it was maelstrom. Interesting choice that backfired.