Are Baneblade Variants Competitive?

[Kontakt]

While I don't own a baneblade, I have seen enough of them fielded to say that they aren't durable enough when engaged by hammernators,imperial knights, the 5 different eldar Str D weapons.... It's a fun vehicle, but it isn't competitive for games that aren't massive already. This is just personal opinion, and I can't tell you if they simply didn't support it well enough, I am just not sure.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

A unit of Wolf Guard Terminators with TH/SS shuld do the trick as well, as could 3-4 thunderwolf cavalry. The TWC are throwing down 15 S10 AP2 attacks on the charge. That would probably do the trick too. 

 

Point is, you don't need superheavies to kill superheavies.

[march10k]

That's true...you don't...but that doesn't make it any less cool that the shadowsword was made for precisely that job...it's like a vanquisher at the next level.  To resurrect a WWII term, its a (superheavy) tank destroyer a la the Jagdpanther:

 

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/14440/1310852-jagdpanther9.jpg

 

Why no turret?  The BFG is too massive, that's why!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I don't know March, Nazi Germany had their own Baneblade in the works:

 

The Lankreuzer P.1000 Ratte

 

http://www.agisn.de/assets/images/Ratte-14.jpg

 

they never built it.

 

Also there was a tank destroyer heavier than the Jagdpather, the Jagdtiger:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Jagdtiger-Aberdeen.00059se8.jpg

[march10k]

Meh...ratte was never viable, maus is a better analog to the baneblade variants.  Anyway, the Jagdtiger is heavier than the Jagdpanther, but the panther is far faster and more nimble, and they both have the same gun.  If the shadowsword had AV15, I'd go for the tiger variant...besides, there were five times as many panthers made as tigers, and a good year earlier, to boot...by the time the tiger variants started rolling out, the war was long since lost.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Valid points, The ratte's scale seems to fit though.

[WarriorFish]

Baneblades are tanks to the next level and that applies to all things; they're more vulnerable to assault and need more infantry escorts accordingly! We're the Guard, the Lords of combined arms. Leave the poncy deathstars and other weak tricks to the lesser armies, force multiplication is how we win. That and lots and lots of dice :lol:

[Emicus]

Force multiplication as in take a unit, add preciense or as in MULTIPLE units? ;) Send in the next wave!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

You know Leman Russ vanquishers could probably do the trick pretty well too, given their armorbane cannon, and Demolishers and Battletanks might also do well since they're both ordinance. 

 

I'd rather spend my points at 1850 and below on more useful things like more leman russes. 

[Teetengee]

My friend often brings his shadowsword to 2000 point matches. My chaos army usually screams in pain as it deletes unit after unit trying to find an assault path. (or their transports). Granted I inevitably get hammer and anvil against it, which just is bad news.

[Canadian_F_H]

Actually, a unit of five deathwing knights in smite mode (so only four, not five, the sergeant doesn't get the bonus) will on average delete one baneblade on the charge...and that's without a chaplain letting them reroll misses. Pretty sure they get the same result against a knight...knights are AV13 in melee, versus the AV12 of a baneblade, but they also have fewer HP...I'd still want a chaplain along, since they only get one turn of smite mode!

 

/edit/ Best knight-killer, though? Repentia. The trick is getting them the charge...Average pen roll is 13, but there'd be nine of the little wenches with three attacks each and a 3++ to protect against the knight's swings. That'll kill a proper titan, let alone a knight!

That might need to go into the warlord tactics thread...

[march10k]

 

Actually, a unit of five deathwing knights in smite mode (so only four, not five, the sergeant doesn't get the bonus) will on average delete one baneblade on the charge...and that's without a chaplain letting them reroll misses. Pretty sure they get the same result against a knight...knights are AV13 in melee, versus the AV12 of a baneblade, but they also have fewer HP...I'd still want a chaplain along, since they only get one turn of smite mode!

 

/edit/ Best knight-killer, though? Repentia. The trick is getting them the charge...Average pen roll is 13, but there'd be nine of the little wenches with three attacks each and a 3++ to protect against the knight's swings. That'll kill a proper titan, let alone a knight!

That might need to go into the warlord tactics thread...

 

What's that?

[Canadian_F_H]

 

 

 

Actually, a unit of five deathwing knights in smite mode (so only four, not five, the sergeant doesn't get the bonus) will on average delete one baneblade on the charge...and that's without a chaplain letting them reroll misses. Pretty sure they get the same result against a knight...knights are AV13 in melee, versus the AV12 of a baneblade, but they also have fewer HP...I'd still want a chaplain along, since they only get one turn of smite mode!

 

/edit/ Best knight-killer, though? Repentia. The trick is getting them the charge...Average pen roll is 13, but there'd be nine of the little wenches with three attacks each and a 3++ to protect against the knight's swings. That'll kill a proper titan, let alone a knight!

That might need to go into the warlord tactics thread...

What's that?

There is a thread about taking down the new warlord titan.

 

 

 

So viability of bane blade variants... What about the old man's chariot?

[Lysere]

Seen some people mention prescience, just remember powers without a strength value don't work on superheavies. As to dealing with them, most aren't as scary as they look. Had a game where a guy played a plaugereaper, a third vindicator wouldve been a better use of points.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

It all depends on what you're trying to do. The psychological effect is what I mostly go for, it makes the opponent change their way of thinking to deal with it. which is very beneficial thing.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Seen some people mention prescience, just remember powers without a strength value don't work on superheavies. As to dealing with them, most aren't as scary as they look. Had a game where a guy played a plaugereaper, a third vindicator wouldve been a better use of points.

 

Prescience is a Blessing and thus can target friendly units, including Superheavies.

[march10k]

Where is this "how  to take down a warlord" thread?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, we were having a discussion at MCM after someone pulled out Tempest during the 40K meetup, to a chorus of, "can we see the Warlord rules?" Cue everyone trying to work out if it's even possible to field enough dakka to kill it.

[march10k]

I have a hard time imagining that an equal points value in knight lancers couldn't do it..or T-hawk-loads of repentia (3x10 per bird, plus the D weapon on the Thawk)

[CoffeeGrunt]

If the Repentia get in, that's the tough part if we're considering the Warlord having proportionate support. 

 

The Astartes players were trying to work out how many Lascannon Devs it would take. Silly Astartes, those aren't efficient.

[march10k]

LOL...well, for every point of support that the warlord gets, the repentia get a point, too, right?  Anyway, I think against a warlord, PFGed DWV Crusaderloads of deathwing knights with chappy support is probably better...they get their S10AP2 rerolling attacks at initiative, and with a chaplain and a knight master in each vehicle, that's room for six smiters...18 attacks per!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Out of curiosity, where can the rules for the warlord titan be found? 

[Canadian_F_H]

Where is this "how to take down a warlord" thread?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307746-warlord-titan-tactics/?fromsearch=1

 

This is it,

 

I suggest we get back on topic before we all get melta bombed...

 

So which bane blade varient is best for taking on a warlord titan?

 

Lol...

 

Also, do y'all think the old man yarrick baneblade is worth it?

[Centurio]

I prefer the Stormsword. It's relatively cheap and the big "ignore cover" blast will cure what ails ya.

 

Anytime you use a superheavy, it needs to be "bubble wrapped" to protect from melta. I use imperial guard infantry squads or ravenwing bikes. Spend the first couple of turns eliminating the threat (drop pod melta will do this for you most often by turn 2) then your superheavy is free to roam around and destroy. By eliminate melta threats, I mean take measures to destroy them or keep them out of half range.

[march10k]

I don't bubble wrap mine...sometimes I put it on a skyshield, but that's for the 4++, not access denial.  Thing is, it's fielded in the context of an armored list...if you want to suicide melta my shadowsword, I welcome that.  You probably won't kill it, and you will be killed yourself.  Meanwhile, you're not killing my demolishers, and they're not only easier to kill, but collectively far more killy!