Sorcery Primer

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hey guys. Here is the discussion thread for the Sorcery Primer. Note that discussion of non-Grey Knight disciplines will be found in the Allies Primer thread. We're only concerned with our own psychic mastery here. 

 

 

Sanctic:

 

- Banishment:

- Gate of Infinity:

- Hammerhand:

- Sanctuary:

- Purge Soul:

- Cleansing Flame:

- Vortex of Doom:

 

 

Divination:

 

- Prescience:

- Foreboding:

- Forewarning:

- Perfect Timing:

- Precognition:

- Misfortune:

- Scrier's Gaze:

 

 

Telepathy:

 

- Psychic Shriek

- Dominate

- Mental Fortitude:

- Terrify:

- Shrouding:

- Invisibility:

- Hallucination:

 

 

Telekinesis:

 

- Assail:

- Crush:

- Objuration Mechanicum:

- Shockwave:

- Levitation:

- Telekine Dome:

- Psychic Maelstrom:

 

 

Pyromancy:

 

- Flame Breath:

- Fiery Form:

- Fire Shield:

- Spontaneous Combustion

- Sunburst:

- Inferno:

- Molten Beam:

[Prot]

As mentioned, I confess this is my favorite aspect of the Grey Knights. The fact everyone of them is blessed with the Emperor's gift, and has access to Sanctic (without the risk level) does make it feel special to me.

The Psychic phase is the one part of Grey Knights I can't live without. I know you can do a lot around it, or without out entirely, however, I think manipulating the Warp is adding a finer edge to an already great weapon.

I know we were talking about this elsewhere, but if I have only one choice it's probably going to be Sanctic. The Primaris, I feel, is better suited to a character, or perhaps a basic 'Grey Knight only' psychic power. This is one of the reasons I think next time around we get our own psychic deck.... Anyway, considering that I play Ultramarines, I do get a lot out of Divination there.

The Divination Primaris: Prescience feels like a ton of mileage for something like Tigurius and Centurions, or even a squad of Lascannons, but the way I build my Grey Knights, I am struggling to feel a lot of use out of it with Stormbolters and the odd Psycannon.

BUT dive a bit deeper into denying cover ,and/or giving your squad a 4++ invuln, and now we're talking.

Probably my biggest beef with Sanctic is the replicated powers inherent in our squads, like Hammer Hand as an example.

So logically it sounds like I'm against Sanctic but here I am saying it's my first choice.... as most of my batreps that I've posted here show, here is why:

There's nothing like the smell of VORTEX in the morning!

I'll steal from my other post and shed some highlights:

I've had some great moments with Vortex; one-shotted a Sicaran Tank, removed a nasty Tau squad, and had a beauty Vortex rip the reality right out of a Commander Pask Punisher tank. Man, that was fantastic.... and gutsy too. You gotta have steel nerves to walk up to a Plasma Executioner and Pask's Punisher with nothing but the psychic holy hand grenade. (Maybe it takes a bit of stupidity too but I'll take it.)

I was playing a Relic style game against a Nid player.... he rushed the middle, and quite honestly he was actually clever in crowding the entire relic with low level garbage and keeping it there with his more expensive, Synapse guys in the middle... I rolled up Vortex, it deviated right into the middle of the squad and tapped a pile of guys, getting me a clean assault line....

I've just personally never had as much fun with a single ability. But again I confess though no permanent record exists, my Librarians have been known to roast a few good men with the ol' Vortex. (I've almost utterly killed Draigo twice with it in the last month!)

The problem with Sanctic is the duds are really duds. With Divination even your worst rolls are going to get you Prescience, which is why I always, always, always take Domina Liber Daemonica with Sanctic.... on a Level 3 Librarian... Everytime.

When I do go with Divination, it's usually on a secondary unit. It's usually on one that will shoot better: IE: 2 Psycannons in combat squaded Termies. And because Prescience is golden, Divination is my choice for a Warp Level 2 Psyker.

The ways to guarantee some of the goods in Sanctic:

Stern = Sanctic: So I'll use him as my GM for that reason alone. He's great with Draigo for almost guaranteeing a mega-tank fest.

Purifiers = Cleansing Flame: 2 charges for the price of one squad. What a great squad. Absolutely frustrating that they can't Deep Strike (a different topic all together).

To me these are two of the better powers.... guaranteeing them isn't cheap though.

That's my 2 vortices (?) worth of advice. Oh and don't stare at the pretty lights too long.... you'll get a permanent tan from that Vortex!

[Rurik the blessed]

Personally i always use the Sanctic lore.

 

It combines everything, Nova power, Blessing, Ofensive and Defensive spells.

 

but, last day i use the Divination lore, and was very useful but not ofensive at all (I missed that part of Sanctic)

 

So, what i do now is to maximize the level of librarian with the liber daemonica, and try on Sanctic first, untill i get what i want, then try the rest on Divination... you can always swap primaris.

 

One other think i found very useful. is to Declare a NDK as the warlord and cross fingers to get a 6 on our warlord traits. 

NDK with teleporting, vortex, or Cleansing flame is something that you can't resist

[Prot]

Rurik, that last line..... is great. I never even thought of trying for a lucky Vortex with the NDK. Then again me with two Vortexes could be fatal to my army. I love it. :)

[Rurik the blessed]

Rurik, that last line..... is great. I never even thought of trying for a lucky Vortex with the NDK. Then again me with two Vortexes could be fatal to my army. I love it.

Indeed. you need a lot of lucky for this... i mean, two sixes, but once you get... just enjoy it...

I love this, last game i got Cleansing Flame... it was absolutely amazing!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Any thoughts on some of the less used Disciplines guys? Personally I've only ever used Sanctic, Divination, Telepathy and Telekinesis. Of the last one, I have the least experience. 

[casb1965]

Telepathy

Primaris - Psychic Shriek WC1 - 18" witchfire, 3d6-opp's ldshp wounds with no armour or cover saves allowed. Anything above average on those 3d6 and your opponent is losing wounds or taking an invun save to avoid it.

1. Dominate WC1 - 24" Malediction, opponent has to pass ldshp test to move, shoot, manifest power, run etc. And that's each phase. It's not great but can stop low leadership high strength weaponry groups firing at you.

2. Mental Fortitude WC1 - 24" Blessing, auto regroup one unit and they become fearless. Again not great but can stop allies from running.

3. Terrify WC1 - 24" malediction, -1 ldshp, all units against opp unit cause fear, opp unit takes morale test at end of psychic phase. Fun with 2 or more Telepathic Librarians, all cast this then one casts Psychic Shriek at same unit for -2 to opps ldshp

4. Shrouding WC1 - All friendly figures within 6" of psyker have Shrouded. +2 to cover, 5+ cover in open. Not bad but not the best.

5. Invisibility WC2 - 24" blessing, opponent can only fire snap shots at unit blessed and 6's to hit you in CC. Great cast on a unit of Termies that just Deep Struck/Striked

6. Hallucination WC2 - 24" Malediction, roll a d6, 1-2 unit takes pinning test, 3-4 -1 to WS, BS, I and A, 5-6 1 S3 hit from all models on a randomly selected character in unit no cover saves allowed, if no character in unit treat as a 3-4 result.

There's some great combinations in here if you run more than one Libby, even with only one you can combine Dominate and Invisibility to keep units alive. I don't see any redundant power (unlike Sanctic where most units already know the Primaris and Hammerhand)

NB: All these leadership tests are on their modified leadership as the rule book does not say "take an leadership test on their unmodified leadership"

[Lemon Legion]

I have to mention most likely the least liked one here. I absolutely Love Pyromancy, kinda suits them yet isn't based upon daemon killing. Although I would recommend rolling for santic instead against a Chaos Daemon army, It has so much to offer. It complements being up close and personal as fire breath gets some extra hits in before you charge and your nova will help when your close to them swarms. Although it might not be something everything in your army should take it should definitely get some consideration.

[Aethernitas]

I wanna second Lemon Legions Pyromany thumbs up and expand a little on it.

 

First of all - every single power in Pyromancy except the melta-beam ignores cover. Thats a nice start. Five out of seven powers in Pyromancy are prone to Deny the Witch as they are all witchfire powers one way or the other.

Flame Breath is a heavy flamer for normally 1-2 warpcharges and in addition to any other shooting. It also has pseudo-split fire.

Fiery Form is ok on it's own for upping the invul safe but it can get pretty good when you roll on pyromancy three times. Rerolling wounds on every other Pyromancy power ensures that if you hit you will wound A LOT. Every other power except Fire Shield profits from Fiery Form but the by far best synergy have Sun Burst, Inferno and Flame Breath.

 

Fire Shield is the poor mans Precognition when it comes to defensive capabilities. "Poor mans" because the 4+ cover won't help you in close combat BUT, and thats a big BUTT, it neuters everything without assault grenades as it generates a 6" dangerous terrain bubble. Believe me when I say it is hilarious against Nids, Daemons and all kinds of other stuff without assault grenades.

Spontanious Combustion might be more limited in what it can kill than other focussed witchfires, but against GEQ, most Eldar/DE etc it is arguably stronger than the other focussed witchfires and can generate a couple of secondary wounds. Besides Fiery Form on of the weaker powers in Pyromancy.

Sun Burst on the other hand is hilarious. It's Cleansing Flame with one less strength but only needs one warpcharge. If you roll this and Fiery Form you just got a stronger Cleansing Flame for half the cost. Even without help everyone who has ever used Cleansing Flame can probably imagine the usefulness of this power.

Inferno has to be seen much like Flame Breath - as an additional shooting attack against hordes and cover-dependent units. I feel it is too expensive for what it does but when you can spare the warpcharges or have some left-overs to try your luck this power can be situationally (Mandrakes, shrouded Nids, Aegis-Imps etc.) good to great.

 

Molten Beam is without question the most universally destructive of all the Pyromancy powers. Since the beam rules were changed the beam will hit every target it touches with full strength. You don't have to roll to hit and only one target unit may deny the witch. Now combine this with the fact it has the melta rule, doesn't lock you in on a target to charge, can be used in addition to other weapons, instant kills MEQ and TEQ and costs an appropriate 2 warpcharges I would take this over Vortex any day.

 

All in all I daresay that Pyromancy is a solid discipline that lacks the obvious must-haves like Divination or Telepathy but does have it's gems and can really add to your damage output. For GKs it's especially useful as we mostly take psycannons over flamer and cram in more terminators instead of purifier and therefore we often struggle against horde style armies. Pyromancy offers options against such armies without the need for tailoring. It also generally supports an aggressive approach on the battlefield which GKs can easily relate to.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thanks guys. I've never really used Pyromancy myself, I found it's 6th edition incarnation to be trash and I haven't given the 7th edition version a go. So I guess overall, a situational pick against armies with superior numbers? I wasn't aware the beam rules had changed, that is a nice little buff (it's still has 12" range though so it's pretty one-use, you're probably in melee that turn or the next). 

[SyNidus]

You've just made me consider running pyro this weekend to test it out. With fiery form, I can see a lot of potential for increased wounds, even against MEQ.

[Prot]

I wanna second Lemon Legions Pyromany thumbs up and expand a little on it.

 

First of all - every single power in Pyromancy except the melta-beam ignores cover. Thats a nice start. Five out of seven powers in Pyromancy are prone to Deny the Witch as they are all witchfire powers one way or the other.

 

Molten Beam is without question the most universally destructive of all the Pyromancy powers. Since the beam rules were changed the beam will hit every target it touches with full strength. You don't have to roll to hit and only one target unit may deny the witch. Now combine this with the fact it has the melta rule, doesn't lock you in on a target to charge, can be used in addition to other weapons, instant kills MEQ and TEQ and costs an appropriate 2 warpcharges I would take this over Vortex any day.

 

 

All in all I daresay that Pyromancy is a solid discipline that lacks the obvious must-haves like Divination or Telepathy but does have it's gems and can really add to your damage output. For GKs it's especially useful as we mostly take psycannons over flamer and cram in more terminators instead of purifier and therefore we often struggle against horde style armies. Pyromancy offers options against such armies without the need for tailoring. It also generally supports an aggressive approach on the battlefield which GKs can easily relate to.

 

Thanks for diving into this and explaining why you like it. It makes a huge difference, and I can tell you've thought about this.

 

Ironically I have used Pyro a few times on my Ultra's with Tiggy, and the funny thing is I wrote it off.... because Ultra's are typically best not being aggressive enough to actually use these abilities to their finest. It's what you say in the final paragraph that really makes the difference for me and now that I read it, it seems so obvious: "Pyro supports an aggressive approach..."

 

That's pretty bang on... I mean if I/we are playing the typical Termie -in your face- style of list, this is so true.... Definitely worth exploring. And yes, Molten Beam is fantastic and I love it, but the other stuff is really, really usable with GK's. Thanks for the power reviews but hey... let's not go dismissing 'Vortex' just yet! ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

One thing to note about 'Sanctic' in particular is we have a relic whose sole purpose is to god-mode that lore choice. The Domina Liber is a huge boost, even if you're not maining 'Sanctic' on your HQ. Re-rolling 1's to cast say 'Hammerhand' or 'Sanctuary' is awesome for all our units. Re-rolling that clutch 'Cleansing Flame' attempt when your Purifiers turn up in their pod/Raven? Pretty important. Re-rolling failure to get 'Vortex' online? Game-changing. 

[Prot]

That's a very good point. The wargear doesn't only help the caster... it's giving a force multiplier effect to anyone within range of him casting off those abilities, which is huge when you're low on dice.

 

A lot of people are mostly looking for Prescience from Divination, but if you have Domina Liber running, it's like Prescience is 'free' because you're getting that extra shot at a 'good' Sanctic ability.

[Happy-inquisitor]

As mentioned, I confess this is my favorite aspect of the Grey Knights. The fact everyone of them is blessed with the Emperor's gift, and has access to Sanctic (without the risk level) does make it feel special to me.

 

 

This may seem really obvious but when facing Daemons it is almost always worth loading up with Sanctic even if something else is your usual favourite. In this one match-up the primaris goes from useless to excellent - if your opponent is running a 2++ re-rollable deathstar that primaris is devastating and you can be sure it will draw out all their deny dice. Daemons are still a top-tier tournament winning codex and having the best access to this power in the game gives GK a big boost in dealing with them.

[jeffersonian000]

We're always dealing with daemons, even when none are of the table.

 

SJ

[Aethernitas]

Thanks for the power reviews but hey... let's not go dismissing 'Vortex' just yet!

I wouldn't dream to dimiss Vortex - it's too much fun to use and the S:D can do work where even a 8/1 melta-beam isn't enough. I will pretty much always take it if I roll it. It's just that the Beam is more reliable and fact that I have total control what it hits makes it feel more reliable to me. I like reliable because I can build around that with my tactics.

Sanctic Daemonology and Divination are still my two most picked disciplines but with a certain type of army (2 libbys, 10 TAGK, 20 Interceptors, 2 NDKs, Vox-Aegis) I used two mastery 3 librarians both with Pyromancy to maximize the dmg I could do during my alpha-strike.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

This may seem really obvious but when facing Daemons it is almost always worth loading up with Sanctic even if something else is your usual favourite. In this one match-up the primaris goes from useless to excellent - if your opponent is running a 2++ re-rollable deathstar that primaris is devastating and you can be sure it will draw out all their deny dice. Daemons are still a top-tier tournament winning codex and having the best access to this power in the game gives GK a big boost in dealing with them.

 

Yeah that's kinda the stupid thing about us. If we could have reasonable matchups against Tau, Necrons and Eldar, we'd be a tournament staple (we also hard-counter Nids hilariously well). As is though, we're gated out of the top places by getting shot off table by the other xenos factions. CenturionStar also works very well against us, so in that matchup we're in trouble too. 

 

It's actually pretty hard to lose to Daemons. They're behind the curve from the start, and as soon as we start casting our powers and triggering our various bonuses against Daemons, it's all downhill. We're one of the few factions who have enough psykers to keep up in the Psychic phase, we shoot them off the board, and the harder stuff (Princes, Grinders etc) we handle in melee very well. 

[Aethernitas]

Yeah that's kinda the stupid thing about us. If we could have reasonable matchups against Tau, Necrons and Eldar, we'd be a tournament staple (we also hard-counter Nids hilariously well). As is though, we're gated out of the top places by getting shot off table by the other xenos factions. CenturionStar also works very well against us, so in that matchup we're in trouble too. 

 

It's actually pretty hard to lose to Daemons. They're behind the curve from the start, and as soon as we start casting our powers and triggering our various bonuses against Daemons, it's all downhill. We're one of the few factions who have enough psykers to keep up in the Psychic phase, we shoot them off the board, and the harder stuff (Princes, Grinders etc) we handle in melee very well. 

 

I actually like the fact that we have a lot of bad match-ups against many of the most popular armies right now. I hated 5th when everyone just used our badly written and broken codex as excuse when they lost. Nowadays I have to work for my wins and I have to adjust my playstyle according to my opponent. The Nids matchup I think is not that onesided as you make it out to be. As a Nid player myself I think that Tyranids have the potential to face GK on a equal footing even though thats only true for lists that are more on the horde side of things. Nidzilla-ish lists are just dead against GKs.

 

Apart from the Prefered Enemy Daemons rule the thing that makes Daemon players weep bloody tears is Sanctuary and the Nemesis-Banner. When they always have to charge through dangerous terrain and having no assault nades whatsoever they simply can't win any close combats and we easily out-shoot them so they are royally boned all around. Paladins are just comically badass against Daemons and even Dreadnoughts become viable just because they can provide Sanctuary bubbles for your guys.

[Everon]

I like we have to work for wins but I'm with Darius. Last game I had was against crons 2500 points. Oh yes they brought decurion. No super heavies or ctans. I quit by turn 2. I killed one scythe and warrior squad by the time he killed a dk, draigo, Libby, 2 5 man termie squads and 2 5 man interceptor squads. If he didn't that fnp and invul saves I would a wiped 2 3 man destroyers 2 20 man warriors and his immortals. Alas I was out numbered and out gunned without a hope.

 

There's a difference between working for a win and never having the slighest chance in hell. This Dex, were in huge trouble

[Zhukov]

 

Yeah that's kinda the stupid thing about us. If we could have reasonable matchups against Tau, Necrons and Eldar, we'd be a tournament staple (we also hard-counter Nids hilariously well). As is though, we're gated out of the top places by getting shot off table by the other xenos factions. CenturionStar also works very well against us, so in that matchup we're in trouble too. 

 

It's actually pretty hard to lose to Daemons. They're behind the curve from the start, and as soon as we start casting our powers and triggering our various bonuses against Daemons, it's all downhill. We're one of the few factions who have enough psykers to keep up in the Psychic phase, we shoot them off the board, and the harder stuff (Princes, Grinders etc) we handle in melee very well. 

 

Could you link to relevant statistics for this all? I'd be very interested in it, as I view a lot of what you say here very differently:

-Tau are a reasonable matchup

-Necrons I'm not sure yet to be honest, too early to tell, one would need to go with theory and that does not make me so sure either.

-A standard GK list (using the list you propose) does not hardcounter 5 Flyrants + Mawlocks/Lictors. Why would it? It has no meaningfull AA. 60 Twin-linked S6 shots wears down that GK list of yours pretty well.

-It's not hard to lose to Daemons, Banishment and PE (Daemons) might make it look like this but... They generally have 20+ powerdice versus our ~12 (going with the GK list you suggested). One would want to cast Banishment on Screamerstar for example, but they'll have a ton of dice to try and Deny you on a 4+ (mastery lvl 3 versus your mastery lvl 2 max). Dronestar is equally dangerous and they can just summon Daemonettes endlessly which are incredibly efficient against Grey Knights. And while we have PE against them, we also pay for Ap3 in close combat and rending on our psycannons, which Daemons do not care about at all.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I actually like the fact that we have a lot of bad match-ups against many of the most popular armies right now. I hated 5th when everyone just used our badly written and broken codex as excuse when they lost. Nowadays I have to work for my wins and I have to adjust my playstyle according to my opponent. The Nids matchup I think is not that onesided as you make it out to be. As a Nid player myself I think that Tyranids have the potential to face GK on a equal footing even though thats only true for lists that are more on the horde side of things. Nidzilla-ish lists are just dead against GKs.

 

I don't. It sucks. Also, FYI, we were never as broken as xenos are now, back in 5th. I played during that period, and PaladinStar really only worked because of the wound allocation rules and the fact that things like Destroyer and Riptides hadn't yet existed. You still hard-counter PaladinStar with something as simple as a Vindicator. The Purifier MSU mech build did the rounds, and PsyDreads were actually good. But I recall our period in the top tier to be one of the shortest in 40k. Nob Bikers etc lasted longer. It was really just the tailed end of 5th, and probably mid-way through 6th. At that point, Tau and Eldar had updated, and our Deathstar was no more. 

 

Regarding Tyranids, we answer a lot of their questions. We handle hordes of 5+ save chaff like few others (and if you bring Purifiers, which I highly recommend, 'Cleansing Flame' makes their Gaunt spawning irrelevant). We completely outclass Warriors, Lictors, and most of their MC lineup in melee. Tyrants and Toxicrenes present issues, but they have no invul saves and are at serious risk of getting 'Forced' by the squad hammer (on average dice they don't eat 5 Terminators, only like 3-4). Dreadknights are absolute nightmare fuel, especially now they can self-buff to a 4+ invul to prevent boneswords on Tyrants randomly killing them (Ld10 helps too). Flyrants are annoying, but once they land and are forced into melee (S6 spam doesn't work very well against us, due to majority 2+ saves), it's GG. It's not as much of a free win as fighting Daemons, but Tyranids do play into our style quite well (we clear out infantry with shooting, then finish off monsters in melee). They also have no Deepstrike defense. The one thing Tyranids have that scares us shooting-wise is the Exocrine, but they won't bring more than 2 normally. If they fail to kill us due to scatter or bad rolls (it has to camp for BS4 remember, and it's only 24" range), we rip them to shreds in melee handily. 

Apart from the Prefered Enemy Daemons rule the thing that makes Daemon players weep bloody tears is Sanctuary and the Nemesis-Banner. When they always have to charge through dangerous terrain and having no assault nades whatsoever they simply can't win any close combats and we easily out-shoot them so they are royally boned all around. Paladins are just comically badass against Daemons and even Dreadnoughts become viable just because they can provide Sanctuary bubbles for your guys.

 

Oh wow, I just realised. DK's have 'Sanctuary' now. So even Princes (assuming they're not Slanneshi ones, because they get assault nades) go last against them if 'Sanctuary' is up. Holy Throne thats broken hahahaha. 

 

Yeah Paladins actually live up the hype against Daemons. It's sad really. In the one matchup where it's already a curbstomp, they become viable. 

I like we have to work for wins but I'm with Darius. Last game I had was against crons 2500 points. Oh yes they brought decurion. No super heavies or ctans. I quit by turn 2. I killed one scythe and warrior squad by the time he killed a dk, draigo, Libby, 2 5 man termie squads and 2 5 man interceptor squads. If he didn't that fnp and invul saves I would a wiped 2 3 man destroyers 2 20 man warriors and his immortals. Alas I was out numbered and out gunned without a hope.

 

There's a difference between working for a win and never having the slighest chance in hell. This Dex, were in huge trouble 

 

I mean, as I always say, we have the tools available to us to win. But the problem is, our margin for error is razor-thin against top-tier armies. If they screw up against us, sure, we can exploit mistakes and maybe win. But we screw up our psychic buffs, or make the wrong call about when to shoot or charge, or any number of things (Reserve rolls screwing you, failing a bunch of 2+ armour in a row at the wrong moment)...it's really sad how quickly we unravel from just a few errors. It's not even really about skill level, to be honest. You can die from bad dice rolls, and far more easily than just about any other army besides Deathwing. 

 

I definitely don't wanna give the impression we auto-lose to xenos. That's not true. But what is true is that it's an uphill battle from deployment, and you can't play for fun. You have to bring the pain, and never let up. If the enemy ever regain the initiative, you're screwed, because we don't have the luxury of time. You basically need to win in the first 3 turns against xenos. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Steering back on topic a little, would Pyromancy be a solid choice against Tyranids then? Obviously the FMC's don't care (you still Snap Shoot unless it's a nova), but for clearing out the little bugs, I think it's decent. A heavy flamer per Librarian would be pretty handy, if nothing else. 

[Aethernitas]

Steering back on topic a little, would Pyromancy be a solid choice against Tyranids then? Obviously the FMC's don't care (you still Snap Shoot unless it's a nova), but for clearing out the little bugs, I think it's decent. A heavy flamer per Librarian would be pretty handy, if nothing else.

According to your analysis of the matchup Pyromancy is pretty much redundant against Nids. I would argue that yes, it is a solid choice because a competent Nid player will take advantage of the fact that the average GK list includes one effective horde-counter in Purifiers. It is very easy for Nids to get an 3+ armywide coversafe and they have lots of units that can close in quickly and murderize beforementioned unit. I really don't want to draw this whole argument out so let's just agree to disagree (as we so often do). Our local meta just seems to differ drastically

[Reclusiarch Darius]

According to your analysis of the matchup Pyromancy is pretty much redundant against Nids. I would argue that yes, it is a solid choice because a competent Nid player will take advantage of the fact that the average GK list includes one effective horde-counter in Purifiers. It is very easy for Nids to get an 3+ armywide coversafe and they have lots of units that can close in quickly and murderize beforementioned unit. I really don't want to draw this whole argument out so let's just agree to disagree (as we so often do). Our local meta just seems to differ drastically

That's not what I said at all. I said Pyromancy has it's uses, but MC's largely don't care (same for 'Cleansing Flame', it doesn't really kill MC's at all, Crones fear it but only because they have a 4+ save). MC's are kinda the backbone of Tyranid lists. I think for horde clearance though, a cheap heavy flamer per HQ (as we normally take psycannons) is worthwhile. We can get bogged down by 20-30 strong blobs if we're not careful. As if you roll one of the better Pryomancy powers, like 'Sunburst', you can deal with 3+ cover save hordes fairly well.

I'm still on the fence a bit though. I look at heavy incinerators and I see easy horde clearance that doesn't impact on my psychic phase. And we already have Purifiers...I dunno.