ChaosPhoenix Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Hey there, I haven't played Guard in a long time. I don't want to play a full Guard army at the moment, because.. I... finally need to paint some other stuff ;-). But I can use a little bit Guard in my other armies. I've got a good selection of IG.. I mean AM units, but I haven't got any experiences with the "new" codex. So any idea what I could use as an anti tank detachment with about 200-600pts? I don't care if it's armored, flying or sitting in cover, but it has to deal with AV13/14. Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Well, a vet squad plus say, Pask in a Vanquisher (with tax of another Vanquisher squadmate) should help, though that DOES put ya into the halfway mark for the points you suggested. Vanquishers one of the more reliable ways of penetrating A14, throw a lascannon in with the vets for easier time hitting, and ya should be pretty good there. I'm sure the others will chime in with even more helpful suggestions. Hope that helps a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Vet squad with meltaguns in a chimera. Vendetta (but it is struggles a bit against AV 14) Melta version of the Hellhound (Devil Dog?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Where have you been Argun, and why aren't you suggesting lots of artillery? :lol:;) Vets are a good choice as said, as is a Vendetta for flanking shots and general lascannoning. You could also go for a Platoon with heavy weapons if you fancy some numbers, but for a small contingent perhaps Vets would be most useful? It depends on your primary army build, are we talking Marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 Well, a vet squad plus say, Pask in a Vanquisher (with tax of another Vanquisher squadmate) should help, though that DOES put ya into the halfway mark for the points you suggested. Vanquishers one of the more reliable ways of penetrating A14, throw a lascannon in with the vets for easier time hitting, and ya should be pretty good there. I'm sure the others will chime in with even more helpful suggestions. Hope that helps a bit. Yeah it does help thanks :). How would you deliver the vets? In a chimera or in a vendetta? Are any of the upgrades with it, except for meltas? Vet squad with meltaguns in a chimera. Vendetta (but it is struggles a bit against AV 14) Melta version of the Hellhound (Devil Dog?) I'm interested in the Devil Dog, but I haven't seen anyone using it. Did you? :) Thanks. Where have you been Argun, and why aren't you suggesting lots of artillery? Vets are a good choice as said, as is a Vendetta for flanking shots and general lascannoning. You could also go for a Platoon with heavy weapons if you fancy some numbers, but for a small contingent perhaps Vets would be most useful? It depends on your primary army build, are we talking Marines? Yes my primary detachment would be Grey Knights or Dark Angels. I'll be using a Knight too for fun. And what about artillery ;D? Thanks :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm interested in the Devil Dog, but I haven't seen anyone using it. Did you? Thanks. Well .... since I play Sisters of Battle primarily, I use Immolators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yeah it does help thanks . How would you deliver the vets? In a chimera or in a vendetta? Are any of the upgrades with it, except for meltas? Chimera, for a couple reasons. 1) It starts on the table. 2) Vendettas can't carry more than 6 models, and vets only come in 10's. All flyers start in reserve, so that puts the Valkyrie out too. Don't misunderstand me, the Valkyrie and Vendetta are great, but unless you have a mechanism to get them on first turn (Elysian's combat drop brings Half your valks on turn 1, rounded up) you're better off with the Chimera. The Taurox is a cheap and cheerful option for transporting vets, but it's AV11/10/10 with HP3, and it's easy to over extend it. a Devil Dog squadron would be a good one to take for anti tank, but I'm going to say that Pask in a vanquisher is still the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 If you give the vets a lascannon and the forward sentries doctrine, you can park them in a ruin for 3+ cover and 8 meat shields, that BS4 lascannon will live a looooong time, and you don't need a transport. That's probably the cheapest way to satisfy your 1+ troops for an antitank IG ally. Pask in a vanquisher is definitely the HQ you want in this role, obviously with a hull lascannon to augment the vanquisher cannon. If you're going for pure AT, then a vanquisher wingman with a hull lascannon, if you're tempted by a pieplate, then a LRBT wingman is a good idea, it's also really long-ranged, S8 ordnance is good against AV12 and passable against AV13, and it's similar in cost to a lascannon vanquisher. If you go that route and want to pieplate some infantry, all you gotta do is not roll 10-12 on 2D6, and you get split fire. Either way, consider camo netting for the tanks and look for a spot to deploy them where they have good fields of fire and obscuration (which the camo nets will upgrade to 4+ cover). worst case, you can use the order that allows you to shoot and then still pop (4++ with the nets) smoke. /edit/...and a S8AP3 pieplace is an excellent force-multiplier in a DA or GK army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Argun is our resident artilleryman, so I was expecting arty to be mentioned :P Maybe you could look at artillery for more points, but with your GK potentially getting close to the enemy perhaps not the best idea to have too many pie plates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well, a vet squad plus say, Pask in a Vanquisher (with tax of another Vanquisher squadmate) should help, though that DOES put ya into the halfway mark for the points you suggested. Vanquishers one of the more reliable ways of penetrating A14, throw a lascannon in with the vets for easier time hitting, and ya should be pretty good there. I'm sure the others will chime in with even more helpful suggestions. Hope that helps a bit. Yeah it does help thanks . How would you deliver the vets? In a chimera or in a vendetta? Are any of the upgrades with it, except for meltas? Where have you been Argun, and why aren't you suggesting lots of artillery? Vets are a good choice as said, as is a Vendetta for flanking shots and general lascannoning. You could also go for a Platoon with heavy weapons if you fancy some numbers, but for a small contingent perhaps Vets would be most useful? It depends on your primary army build, are we talking Marines? Yes my primary detachment would be Grey Knights or Dark Angels. I'll be using a Knight too for fun. And what about artillery ;D? Thanks Well, if your buddies allow FW, I'd suggest medusas for artillery. Imperial Armor One is where you'll find 'em (still a tad sore they're not in the codex anymore :( ) For veteran upgrades, I always use the grenadiers doctrine. 4+ armor means that they CAN survive a few bolter shots, or even get a nice firebath from normal flamers. I also do a power sword/plasma pistol on the sarge for that extra little anti-marine oomph, but you could probably use the points elsewhere. Basilisks... I don't want to reccomend anymore, since they've STILL got that silly minimum range of 3ft (unless the FAQ fixed, haven't read that since 6th...) But if you're looking for a decent anti-tank/Marine, a basilisk is a good artillery piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Bassies can direct fire don't forget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I just acquired some Devil Dogs but haven't bothered to assemble them just yet so I cannot talk about them. Meltavets are some of our best anti-tank and, as a bonus, will fulfill your troops tax. This leaves the HQ and I'd advise a tank commander if you're wanting anti-tank. Simple with two demolishers is great and Pask with either a Punisher or Vanquisher is sick against armor (or anything in the Punisher really.) In the elite slot you can take meltacide squads of scions and heavy support is...medusas. Argus is right, even though I'm loath to admit it (being more of a heavy armor guy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well, a vet squad plus say, Pask in a Vanquisher (with tax of another Vanquisher squadmate) should help, though that DOES put ya into the halfway mark for the points you suggested. Vanquishers one of the more reliable ways of penetrating A14, throw a lascannon in with the vets for easier time hitting, and ya should be pretty good there. I'm sure the others will chime in with even more helpful suggestions. Hope that helps a bit. Yeah it does help thanks . How would you deliver the vets? In a chimera or in a vendetta? Are any of the upgrades with it, except for meltas? Where have you been Argun, and why aren't you suggesting lots of artillery? Vets are a good choice as said, as is a Vendetta for flanking shots and general lascannoning. You could also go for a Platoon with heavy weapons if you fancy some numbers, but for a small contingent perhaps Vets would be most useful? It depends on your primary army build, are we talking Marines? Yes my primary detachment would be Grey Knights or Dark Angels. I'll be using a Knight too for fun. And what about artillery ;D? Thanks Well, if your buddies allow FW, I'd suggest medusas for artillery. Imperial Armor One is where you'll find 'em (still a tad sore they're not in the codex anymore ) AND my Griffons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 If you give the vets a lascannon and the forward sentries doctrine, you can park them in a ruin for 3+ cover and 8 meat shields, that BS4 lascannon will live a looooong time, and you don't need a transport. That's probably the cheapest way to satisfy your 1+ troops for an antitank IG ally. Pask in a vanquisher is definitely the HQ you want in this role, obviously with a hull lascannon to augment the vanquisher cannon. If you're going for pure AT, then a vanquisher wingman with a hull lascannon, if you're tempted by a pieplate, then a LRBT wingman is a good idea, it's also really long-ranged, S8 ordnance is good against AV12 and passable against AV13, and it's similar in cost to a lascannon vanquisher. If you go that route and want to pieplate some infantry, all you gotta do is not roll 10-12 on 2D6, and you get split fire. Either way, consider camo netting for the tanks and look for a spot to deploy them where they have good fields of fire and obscuration (which the camo nets will upgrade to 4+ cover). worst case, you can use the order that allows you to shoot and then still pop (4++ with the nets) smoke. /edit/...and a S8AP3 pieplace is an excellent force-multiplier in a DA or GK army. I'll be using an Imperial Knight Paladin too, so thats where the pies will come from. But'll replace him with LRBTs if he doesn't work for me (or takes up too many points). I'm tempted to use the vets in the backfield, because as of now, I have nothing which will sit on an objective. But using melta vets in a chimera sounds much more anti-tank as one las cannon. Thanks a lot :) Argun is our resident artilleryman, so I was expecting arty to be mentioned Maybe you could look at artillery for more points, but with your GK potentially getting close to the enemy perhaps not the best idea to have too many pie plates... Good point. You've just reminded me why I'm not using many vidicators anymore. Well, a vet squad plus say, Pask in a Vanquisher (with tax of another Vanquisher squadmate) should help, though that DOES put ya into the halfway mark for the points you suggested. Vanquishers one of the more reliable ways of penetrating A14, throw a lascannon in with the vets for easier time hitting, and ya should be pretty good there. I'm sure the others will chime in with even more helpful suggestions. Hope that helps a bit. Yeah it does help thanks . How would you deliver the vets? In a chimera or in a vendetta? Are any of the upgrades with it, except for meltas? Where have you been Argun, and why aren't you suggesting lots of artillery? Vets are a good choice as said, as is a Vendetta for flanking shots and general lascannoning. You could also go for a Platoon with heavy weapons if you fancy some numbers, but for a small contingent perhaps Vets would be most useful? It depends on your primary army build, are we talking Marines? Yes my primary detachment would be Grey Knights or Dark Angels. I'll be using a Knight too for fun. And what about artillery ;D? Thanks Well, if your buddies allow FW, I'd suggest medusas for artillery. Imperial Armor One is where you'll find 'em (still a tad sore they're not in the codex anymore ) For veteran upgrades, I always use the grenadiers doctrine. 4+ armor means that they CAN survive a few bolter shots, or even get a nice firebath from normal flamers. I also do a power sword/plasma pistol on the sarge for that extra little anti-marine oomph, but you could probably use the points elsewhere. Basilisks... I don't want to reccomend anymore, since they've STILL got that silly minimum range of 3ft (unless the FAQ fixed, haven't read that since 6th...) But if you're looking for a decent anti-tank/Marine, a basilisk is a good artillery piece. So grenadiers are worth it? I haven't played for a long time and I'm still used to "keep it cheap", thanks :D I just acquired some Devil Dogs but haven't bothered to assemble them just yet so I cannot talk about them. Meltavets are some of our best anti-tank and, as a bonus, will fulfill your troops tax. This leaves the HQ and I'd advise a tank commander if you're wanting anti-tank. Simple with two demolishers is great and Pask with either a Punisher or Vanquisher is sick against armor (or anything in the Punisher really.) In the elite slot you can take meltacide squads of scions and heavy support is...medusas. Argus is right, even though I'm loath to admit it (being more of a heavy armor guy.) I was tempted using the punisher, but the vanquisher seems better against AV14 and I really need someone for this role. Or am I wrong? Thanks :D Well, a vet squad plus say, Pask in a Vanquisher (with tax of another Vanquisher squadmate) should help, though that DOES put ya into the halfway mark for the points you suggested. Vanquishers one of the more reliable ways of penetrating A14, throw a lascannon in with the vets for easier time hitting, and ya should be pretty good there. I'm sure the others will chime in with even more helpful suggestions. Hope that helps a bit. Yeah it does help thanks . How would you deliver the vets? In a chimera or in a vendetta? Are any of the upgrades with it, except for meltas? Where have you been Argun, and why aren't you suggesting lots of artillery? Vets are a good choice as said, as is a Vendetta for flanking shots and general lascannoning. You could also go for a Platoon with heavy weapons if you fancy some numbers, but for a small contingent perhaps Vets would be most useful? It depends on your primary army build, are we talking Marines? Yes my primary detachment would be Grey Knights or Dark Angels. I'll be using a Knight too for fun. And what about artillery ;D? Thanks Well, if your buddies allow FW, I'd suggest medusas for artillery. Imperial Armor One is where you'll find 'em (still a tad sore they're not in the codex anymore ) AND my Griffons! Oh I remember getting hit by those :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Oh I remember getting hit by those :-/ ~:cuss eating grin~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudelhund Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Skitarii Vanguards with Arc Rifles are going to be a popular and versatile anti-tank ally. A full squad not only has the Arc Rifles threatening tanks at 24", but if the seven other dudes have rad carbines, that's 21 assault type shots for potent anti infantry fire that double wounds on sixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Skitarii Vanguards with Arc Rifles are going to be a popular and versatile anti-tank ally. A full squad not only has the Arc Rifles threatening tanks at 24", but if the seven other dudes have rad carbines, that's 21 assault type shots for potent anti infantry fire that double wounds on sixes. Yes I'm interrested in those, because they're fitting the style of the knight anyway. But I love my guard anyway ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'm a little confused and I just need confirmation, to be "legal" I need: 1 HQ Pask (Tank Commander) + a wing man 2 Troops, e.g. 2x Veterans + Chimera. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Pask fills the HQ slot and the two Vet squads the mandatory Troop selections so that's the minimum for a FOC :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 You want to run them together with another army, right? That gives you two options (and wonderful options they are!)1. Take them as a standard CAD, 1 HQ and 2 troops. Pask+friend and 2xVeterans has been discussed.2. Take them as Allies, requiring 1HQ and only 1 troops choice. Voila you can now bring just 1 Veteran unit if you so desire, but you lose Objective Secured AFAIK as that only works on a standard detachment.Both are legal allies as you can bring as many armies/cads/allies/formations as you like, unless your gaming group has interesting restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Actually, Emicus, Allied Detachments have ObSec, they lose the reroll warlord trait benefit, as your warlord cannot come from the AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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