Pudelhund Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Let's say you have the typical armored list: Tank Commander Squadron(s), Veterans in Chimeras, and more Leman Russ tanks in Heavy Support. The main tactical hedge of this list is that the saturation of AV14 hulls will be too much for the enemy to deal with. On each Leman Russ tank, the main gun is the decisive element with the sponsons being ancillary complements to the vehicle's role. Once you have a lot of tanks, the cost of the sponsons starts to become a very significant amount. At 1500 points, you could almost get a whole Leman Russ for the amount spent on sponsons. In a typical Astra Militarum list, sponsons make sense because they are a relatively cheap add-on and hull saturation isn't part of the game. But in an armored list, there are a few new considerations: 1) Space: Physically there may not be that much room on the board for all of the tanks to maneuver efficiently, and taking two inches off the sides could help considerably. It allows the tank to find cover more easily and you don't have to worry about obstructed shooting lanes with the sponsons among lots of vehicles. It also makes it easier to maneuver an AV14 front since the tanks aren't jostling around each other so much. 2) Ordnance: Without sponsons on the list, the comparative value of the Battle Cannon and Demolisher cannon are better. Particularly, pairing a Tank Commander Vanquisher with a Battle Tank squad mate (both with camo netting) is a good pair for long-range shooting (especially if the commander fails the test to allow split-fire). 3) Value: Sponsons usually cost 20 and sometimes 30 points (I rarely see anyone take heavy flamers). At 5-6 hulls, this adds up to 100-130 points or so. That is almost another Leman Russ. The value of the troop choices may leave you with a budget of points that allows another tank if you ditch the sponsons. 4) Redundancy: A weakness with armored lists is that a few diligent melta-wielding deep-strikers (or similar unit) can take out an important tactical counter in your list very quickly. Having another hull with the same potent turret-mounted weapon is better than the heavy weapon sponsons being lost on the same hull carrying an important turret. This is particularly exemplified with Executioner tanks because the Executioner cannon is extremely valuable, but the sponsons to complement are expensive and go down with the ship. I would rather save the 60 points on a pair of them. 5) Saturation: One more AV14 hull at 1500 points is a huge deal. It likely means that the opponent will have to leave something unchecked even if he or she brings ordinarily adequate AT support. This takes pressure off of all of your force, but in particular it means your Chimeras may have an easier time as they will not attract as much attention. If more tanks allow you to specialize with a Vanquisher, it means you can put the Chimeras in a more supporting role as they won't be compelled to be meltagun vets. You can make your enemy think twice about sending infantry near your tanks when you have a Chimera on each flank with some plasma and/or heavy weaponry. Seeing as how I don't have any actual experience playing and this is just my thoughts and research on the matter, what do you guys think? All the tank lists I see use sponsons, so I get that this is probably against the grain, but the more I look at my list construction, the more I want to field only "Slicksides". Consider the following list without sponsons at 1480 Points: Tank Commander Squadron 1 _Pask Executioner ___Lascannon, Heavy Stubber _Executioner ___Lascannon, Heavy Stubber Tank Commander Squadron 2 _Tank Commander Vanquisher ___Lascannon, Camo Netting _Battle Tank ___Heavy Bolter, Camo Netting [x3] Veterans Squad _Chimera _Grenade Launcher _Flakk Missile Team Leman Russ Squadron _Eradicator ___Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber Leman Russ Squadron _Eradicator ___Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber If you're playing a MEQ opponent, sub-out an Eradicator for another Battle Tank. Otherwise this gives you a good balance of potent anti-MEQ/TEQ, anti-armor, OK anti-air, and anti-infantry/anti-cover with 6 AV14 hulls and 3 AV12 hulls. EDIT: If you really wanted to go full saturation, you could take out one veteran squad (155 points in this list) and put in another Leman Russ in the last heavy slot. Not sure if that would be smart though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think all Russ chassis are more than capable without sponsons. Some more so than others, but none need sponsons in order to be effective. As you said the cost soon mounts up too so it is the eternal question for Guard tankers :P I don't usually take sponsons for this reason, I prefer more units to extra bells. In a tank force I think it's even more important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudelhund Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think all Russ chassis are more than capable without sponsons. Some more so than others, but none need sponsons in order to be effective. As you said the cost soon mounts up too so it is the eternal question for Guard tankers I don't usually take sponsons for this reason, I prefer more units to extra bells. In a tank force I think it's even more important! Well golly, WarriorFish, why don't you mention this in any of the fifty thousand lists I've posted in the lists section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't write lists for others, just offer my suggestions without making too many changes. Otherwise it wouldn't be your list anymore! In my defence, if you've been reading the barracks topics diligently you'd surely have heard me prattle on about it enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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