Phalanx Warder Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Sooo......I was looking at the ZM rules and the reaction fire rule caught my eye:"In order to make a reaction fire attack, the unit in question must first roll equal to or under its majority Initiative score on a D6", straight forward enough but then it got me thinking about the most under used unit of the Imperial Fists. Phalanx WardersThe rule in question is the Shield Wall that grants them +1 initiative the turn that they are charged as long as 5 models remain, at first this buff seemed useless because the other buff of this squad is the ability to equip unwieldy power axes that don't benefit from this rule.Now with fresh eyes I see something that has the potential to be devastating and want the HH community to confirm or deny my suspicion. Do Phalanx Warders get to use this +1 initiative buff in conjunction with the reaction fire rule? If so throw in 3 rapid firing plasma or melta guns and that has the potential to be plain NASTY! That would make most units in the game think before they charge.Maybe that was the original intention use for the squad? The ability to take I1 power axes had me thinking this unit had an identity crisis but, they were released in conjunction with Zone Mortalis rules centered around Void/space combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 If this is confirmed this is my new Zone Mortalis 1000pt list! HQAlexis Polux ElitesContemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons) Troops Legion Breacher Siege Squad (X10) (Artifacer Armor) Phalanx Warder Squad (X15) (Legion Vexilla, 3x Plasma gun, 2x Power Axe, Artificer Armor, Melta Bombs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I mean, its order of operations if this is going to work and I think thats the Intent of the +1Initiative Rule after having thought about it a bit. Enemy Unit declares charge You gain +1 Initiative You Test for Reaction Fire Perform Overwatch shooting either at full BS or Snapshooting Resolve the Enemy Charge. I mean, It makes sense; They're a ZM specialist Unit after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 By the gods this is happy day I feel slips is right good eye Phalanx warder that makes them so good for stymieing charges from close combat troops that can't just shoot just stand back and make them come to you through a hail of fire ...pure fisty goodness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 By the gods this is happy day I feel slips is right good eye Phalanx warder that makes them so good for stymieing charges from close combat troops that can't just shoot just stand back and make them come to you through a hail of fire ...pure fisty goodness Thanks Brother! Just got the FW confirmation on this and Slips has it correct you gain the +1 modifier the moment the charge is declared before the reaction fire test! Now my 1000 pt ZM army will look something like this: Delegatus (The Stone Gauntlet) Breacher squad x 10 AA Breacher squad x 10, AA Phalanx Warders x 15 (x3 plasma guns, AA, vex) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Can you fit Polux in there somewhere instead of the Delegatus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 You could Dono, but you loose bodies in the list, you have to drop the Phalanx Warders down to a 13 man squad and loose a plasma gun in the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 You could Dono, but you loose bodies in the list, you have to drop the Phalanx Warders down to a 13 man squad and loose a plasma gun in the process You do still get a Combi-Melta in the Process and a 3++ with the potential for an S10 Power Fist at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The power axes are meant to work in conjunction with the RoW. When you charge you get you HoW attacks, your enemy attacks back, and then you wipe out the enemy unit with power axe attacks. If you're charged you get tougher, to ride out the enemy attacks, then wipe out the enemy unit with your axes. It wasn't an identity crisis, it was to differentiate between the Fists and Ultras. The Ultras are move offensively geared, with large squads of breachers with AP3 swords cutting through tactical blobs. If you run an allied detachment of Ultras, you can fill the board with a mass of Breacher squads designed to fight together. The Fists form your anchor and the Ultras are your oblique flank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 ...it was to differentiate between the Fists and Ultras. The Ultras are move offensively geared, with large squads of breachers with AP3 swords cutting through tactical blobs. If you run an allied detachment of Ultras, you can fill the board with a mass of Breacher squads designed to fight together. The Fists form your anchor and the Ultras are your oblique flank. I so wish I could have held out a little longer before buying so many tacticals. I did not forsee these two legions being shield heavy in models and in rules, or this is what I would be doing for an allied force. Seeing an army like that painted up would probably auto-destroy my wallet. I do find it a bit odd, having done a bit of board and sword myself, that the more Toughness oriented shield users (who stick in close ranks and move little) have small shields in the models depicted / purchasable, and the ones seemingly more on offensive (and therefore more likely to move freely of each other) are sporting massive barn doors for shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The Warder Shields are much wider than their Suzerain cousin's shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 The power axes are meant to work in conjunction with the RoW. When you charge you get you HoW attacks, your enemy attacks back, and then you wipe out the enemy unit with power axe attacks. If you're charged you get tougher, to ride out the enemy attacks, then wipe out the enemy unit with your axes. It wasn't an identity crisis, it was to differentiate between the Fists and Ultras. The Ultras are move offensively geared, with large squads of breachers with AP3 swords cutting through tactical blobs. If you run an allied detachment of Ultras, you can fill the board with a mass of Breacher squads designed to fight together. The Fists form your anchor and the Ultras are your oblique flank. What I was getting at is the fact that this unit has lots of uses (never in dispute) but having an Initiative buff when charged that is nullified by the one weapon that truly separates them from other breachers: unwieldy axes! An initiative buff that you cant use made many scratch there head. One of the main intentions of the Initiative buff was designed to work of off the Zone Mortalis reaction fire rule that once you pass an initiative test you can fire your weapons at -1 BS as apposed to snap shots. This makes them ultra deadly when charged. You declare a charge, I am almost guaranteed to get a free round of BS4 shooting, followed by my CC attacks, you then strike followed my my power axes that is pure nasty, and it gives a way rules wise for them to live up to the fluff. I say that it was the holy grail because I have not seen this talked about anywhere else on the web, and considering that they are primarily guarding the Phalanx I would also say that they were specifically designed for the ZM rule set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 yeah I'm with phalanxewarder man my tiny little brain never thought of the second use and it's awesome to now have 2 ways to use them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Much like IH immortals they were built with zone mortal is in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The power axes are meant to work in conjunction with the RoW. When you charge you get you HoW attacks, your enemy attacks back, and then you wipe out the enemy unit with power axe attacks. If you're charged you get tougher, to ride out the enemy attacks, then wipe out the enemy unit with your axes. It wasn't an identity crisis, it was to differentiate between the Fists and Ultras. The Ultras are move offensively geared, with large squads of breachers with AP3 swords cutting through tactical blobs. If you run an allied detachment of Ultras, you can fill the board with a mass of Breacher squads designed to fight together. The Fists form your anchor and the Ultras are your oblique flank. What I was getting at is the fact that this unit has lots of uses (never in dispute) but having an Initiative buff when charged that is nullified by the one weapon that truly separates them from other breachers: unwieldy axes! An initiative buff that you cant use made many scratch there head. One of the main intentions of the Initiative buff was designed to work of off the Zone Mortalis reaction fire rule that once you pass an initiative test you can fire your weapons at -1 BS as apposed to snap shots. This makes them ultra deadly when charged. You declare a charge, I am almost guaranteed to get a free round of BS4 shooting, followed by my CC attacks, you then strike followed my my power axes that is pure nasty, and it gives a way rules wise for them to live up to the fluff. I say that it was the holy grail because I have not seen this talked about anywhere else on the web, and considering that they are primarily guarding the Phalanx I would also say that they were specifically designed for the ZM rule set. Actually, it would most likely be a round of BS 5 shooting. Remember IF gets +1 BS when firing bolters. So... in short, these guys won't miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The power axes are meant to work in conjunction with the RoW. When you charge you get you HoW attacks, your enemy attacks back, and then you wipe out the enemy unit with power axe attacks. If you're charged you get tougher, to ride out the enemy attacks, then wipe out the enemy unit with your axes. It wasn't an identity crisis, it was to differentiate between the Fists and Ultras. The Ultras are move offensively geared, with large squads of breachers with AP3 swords cutting through tactical blobs. If you run an allied detachment of Ultras, you can fill the board with a mass of Breacher squads designed to fight together. The Fists form your anchor and the Ultras are your oblique flank. What I was getting at is the fact that this unit has lots of uses (never in dispute) but having an Initiative buff when charged that is nullified by the one weapon that truly separates them from other breachers: unwieldy axes! An initiative buff that you cant use made many scratch there head. One of the main intentions of the Initiative buff was designed to work of off the Zone Mortalis reaction fire rule that once you pass an initiative test you can fire your weapons at -1 BS as apposed to snap shots. This makes them ultra deadly when charged. You declare a charge, I am almost guaranteed to get a free round of BS4 shooting, followed by my CC attacks, you then strike followed my my power axes that is pure nasty, and it gives a way rules wise for them to live up to the fluff. I say that it was the holy grail because I have not seen this talked about anywhere else on the web, and considering that they are primarily guarding the Phalanx I would also say that they were specifically designed for the ZM rule set. Actually, it would most likely be a round of BS 5 shooting. Remember IF gets +1 BS when firing bolters. So... in short, these guys won't miss. The -1BS From Reaction Fire nullifies the +1BS of LA:IF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I don't remember that for reaction fire... I'll have to recheck the rules when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Just checked and its at full BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 That is what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 God now I just wanna biuld a warder centric zone mortalis list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 The Stone Ganutlet of Dorn 1000pts HQ Delegatus (Artificer Armor, Sol Gauntlet, boarding shield) RoW: The Stone gauntlet Troops Legion breacher seige squad Legion breacher siege squad Phalanx Warders (x15, x3 Plasma Guns, x3 power Axe, Vexilla, Artificer armor) Or this one: HQDelegatus (Artificer Armor, Sol Gauntlet, boarding shield) RoW: The Stone gauntlet Elite Legion Apothecary (Artificer Armor) TroopsLegion breacher seige squad (Artificer Armor, Vexilla)Legion breacher siege squad (Artificer Armor, Vexilla)Phalanx Warders (x2 Plasma Guns, x2 power Axe, Vexilla, Artificer armor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'm going to have to get breachers in my next order but I will remember these lists 1000 pts zone mortalis seems like an ideal beer leugue level game with friends but first I must finish my cataphractii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Man, thank you very very much for that thread ! Not only it's good to know that the Init bonus works on Warders, but you also gave me huge insights regarding a question I was asking myself ! Basically, I was trying to really find the interest of Tartaros armour versus Cataphractii armour in Horus Heresy games. Swapping Relentless for SnP in exchange for a 4+ didn't seem like a bad proposition in all circumstances, considering that you only lose the Run and the ability to Overwatch. Which isn't a big deal because you don't really want your Terminators to be in a place to run and the usual Overwatch from Terminators is meh enough that it's okay to lose it. That said, in Zone Mortalis, Tartaros armour really becomes an interesting option thanks to overwatch at full BS on a 1-4... Especially when you've started to gear your the squad with decent shooting weapons like Volkite or Plasma Blasters... So, thanks for helping me figure that out :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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