steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I am planning on playing a game in two days against an old friend. He plays black templars. He wants to use the new skyhammer formation. I traditionally play a mech guard list. I am wondering if that's a bad idea with all of the grav weapons his devastators will be carrying. I have an idea to play mostly foot guard with three wyverns. We are planning to play a 3k game. I am thinking that if I take coteaz with a 50 msn blob I have a chance to even the odds some. I will kit the blob with grenade launchers and autocannons. I think this gives the best chance. And I plan on taking three level 2 psykers. And an astropath. He doesn't use them so I will have the advantage there. That will give me 9 charge there. Is there a better way to combat his formation. Am I missing anything. All advice welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Coteaz is a good solution, as for the grav, it glances on 6's so I wouldn't worry too much, he'd be better off taking multimeltas, and He probably will, since grav cannons on devs are a new thing. If you have a hydra, take it, if you have 2 take both, try to intercept as much of it as you can before it has a chance to kill your stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Grav is best against high value targets, so give him lots of low value ones ;) Grav is comically poor against Guardsmen for example and not particularly long ranged so perhaps dismounting your troops is a good idea? As Ulrik said grav cannons on Marines is a new thing so how likely is it his Devs will come packing loads of them, short of a large dose of proxy? Use your strengths of numbers and fire power, keep your units working together. If it's a drop pod list protect your valuable units and force poor drop locations - then isolate and gang up on them as they come! Remember that if you're ever in doubt stick to the tried and true methods of combined arms and mutual support and you'll always be in with a shot :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Last time I played guard (which was years ago) I found Ogryns to hold their own against marines. Now we've got access to Bullgryns I can see them being even better!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 I am going with lrge blobs and low value units. My wyverns will be safe incased in guardsmen. What's the range of grav cannons. I am trying to build the best defense no vehicles. I know he is taking the skyhammer formation and the rest will be his typical rapid assault force tactical squads in razorbacks and at least one to two raiders. He said he wants to proxy some models so I don't know his exact load out. I want to prepre for anything. He does use plasma cannons I know that. Do I want grenade launchers or plasma guns in my squads. If I rework my tenitive list a little the kurovs Aquila helps out significantly. I am going to have to finish my list and put it here for you guys to critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I've found the same principle applies against eldar...lance spam? Meet AV12 spam! I concur with the plan to spam air defenses and dismounted infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 I don't do hydr I will have about three to five heavy weapons squads with missile launchers and flakk missiles. I like the versatility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Grav cannons are 24 inch range, salvo 3/5. I really can't stress the Hydra enough, I know you said you don't use them, but you need the interceptor to possibly take out those devs and pods, while coteaz handles the assault marines. I'd be less worried about grav, since as a marine player he's going to know it sucks against guardsmen, really the grav works best against tau battlesuits, tyranid MC spam, and eldar wraith constructs. I'd be more worried about podded multimeltas, or heavy bolters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 What does that do for me explain please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 I just verified hydras do not have the interceptor rule anymore so this doesn't help me at all with the formation. I think coteaz is my only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Well, I stand corrected. In that case your next best option for Interceptor is the quad gun on the ADL. Coupled with coteaz that should do ok. If you don't want the ADl, then Coteaz is all I can suggest. Bring as much shooting as you can to deal with the deepstriking marines. Do you have punishers? And do Punishers benefit from coteaz's special rule? If so, that might be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Just coteaz and the unit he joins he can join vehicles so just a blob squad and him The question is do I use a 50 or a 100 man blob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'm going to say, 100, since you're going to need to drown him in fire, 200 lasgun shots ought to kill the formation. Are these regular guardsmen or conscripts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Regulars with one missisle and grenade launcher per squad. My only worry is that if the devs kill one guardsmen the overwatch is unable to be done is gone as per formation rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 He doesn't even need to kill anything. The rules for the SAF simply state that a unit targeted suffers the effects of not being able to fire overwatch. Coteaz is your best bet accompanied by a large blob of Guardsmen as his ability takes effect at the end of the movement phase. If you want more psychic potency or maybe a different approach, consider adding the Librarius Conclave to the blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Deploy in a way that he can't land behind or in the middle of. use several small squads as a buffer between likely landing zones and your main force. On his charge he will destroy these, which is what you want, because that'll leave him out in the open at the end of his turn and you can shoot him. If he gets stuck in melee with a huge blob you cant shoot at him. If he has to move from squad to squad then he'll be vulnerable after every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I will let you all know how it goes today is d day and I still don't know what to field yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good luck! If you're not sure just go with your gut, or try something different. If it doesn't pan out then you'll have new intel to process to give you ideas for next time :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 D day minus 20 minutes all infantry and three wyverns. 250 men strong. Purge the heretic. Forward the glory and the emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudelhund Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 D day minus 20 minutes all infantry and three wyverns. 250 men strong. Purge the heretic. Forward the glory and the emperor. Good luck and please take a photo of all the marvelous infantry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Sorry my opponent did not want pictures. He did not use the formation to its fullest extent. I won two to one on Maelstrom cards. I had killed six units two assault squads one devastator squad a storm raven and his land raider. I only lost two full units, one hws of autocannons and three wyverns. I last maybe 400 points. It was a success taking all infantry and coteaz is a winner. It helps his build was to destroy my mech list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Why didn't he let you take pictures? Well done on the win though, sounds like it was a good result :) Did you pick up any new ideas or tactics, things you might do differently next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 I am not as afraid of that formation as I was. I mean if he would have played the formation to its strengths better it may be more formidable. I baited with my strong side of creed and kell and multiple weapon squads. I also used my blobs to hold the line and have preferred enemy. I put coteaz on the weak side and after much whining shot up one assault squad. He kept his main force back which was a mistake he paid for dearly. Kurovs Aquila still functions great worth all the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 He is a friend but he hates to lose and he uses any excuse to not record his loses in any way. This is the same guy who tell people I have never beaten him because he concedes every time I have the upper hand. He did admit defeat yesterday at bottom of turn three and it wasn't getting any better for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 He has some creative interpretations of conceding if he believes he can concede a game and not lose by doing so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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