Equipping Rw Sergeants

[WellSpokenMan]

With the new Ravenwing Jink rule making it more likely that I will be in CC, I've been debating how I should equip a Vet Sarge. I'm considering 3 options.

 

1. Chainsword and Meltabomb. - cheap

 

2. Lightning Claw - Specialist Weapon doesn't matter because I only have 1 CC weapon any way.

 

3. Power Fist - Lets me punch tanks, but it is expensive and Unwieldy

 

What do you guys think?

[Frater Cornelius]

Not worth it in my eyes. You need a Dark Shroud to improve their save. However, a DS is better used by the BK. In melee they outperform bikes a hundred times over. Unless you are bringing multiple DS in a pure RW army, I would skip it. A Melta Bomb seems fine.

 

If you have the three DS and at least two full units which you did not split, then I would recommend making him a Vet Sarge with Axe or Maul, depending on what they are hunting. A Fist is pretty expensive and you miss a bonus A, making you less reliable in the long run.

 

Edit: Let me rephrase it. Not worth it if you just have one DS or no other way or supporting them. But if you can support them eithout compromising the rest of the list, I think you can get some mileage from a Vet Sarge with Maul.

[WellSpokenMan]

You don't lose an attack because the sarge only has a Bolt pistol or a Chainsword, not both.  That's why I was leaning towards the Lightning Claw, for the Shred.  I am currently planning on two DS.

 

A unit locked in combat doesn't have to Jink, so I can Hit & Run out of CC and then light up another target next turn.  I want to make the most out of my assault without spending too much.

[Frater Cornelius]

I stand corrected on the loss of attack. Claw is only S4 as well. This is what I would do: 6 dudes, 2 grav, vet sarge with maul. Combat squad them. That way you have 3 bikes with 2 Grav doing objective duty and shooting their grav from relatively safe distance, while three bikes with a vet sarge (who now has 2 attacks base and 3 on the charge with S6) who go along with the BK and DS and benefit from 3+ re-rollable jink. They can bust open transports and pressure dedicated scoring units like Scouts, Scout Bikes, MSU Marines or Bikes, Jetbikes and whatever else you have. Leave the heavy melee lifting to the BK.

That is 205 points per unit. I would take two to support my Tacs, BK and DS. That way I have decent Grav from Tacs and Bikes, heavy melee lifting from BK and MSU killers in form of MSU bikes, Sammael and my second HQ, who most likely will be an Interrogator Chaplain on bike with Mace of Redemption and Shroud of Heroes (170pts). These four units are enough to clear all secondary targets from the board and help with the big ones. That setup is also flexible because you can choose where the characters go and whether you combat squad or not.

The only drawback I can see is the severe lack of Melta and thus inability to deal with IK and Land Raiders. That is why I am not sure if I take that setup or three MSU bikes with two MM Trikes instead of the aforementioned units and the second DS.

[Elios Harg]

Due to the lack of a bolt pistol, lightning claws or powerfist are the only "good" options. But then you are paying 25 for 2-3 lighting claw attacks or 35 for 2-3 power fist attacks. Either way is a waste of points, IMO. The maul idea has some merit, but I don't feel it's worth 25 points to get. Especially since vs. Vehicles you already have krak grenades (so in that case you are paying 25 points for 2 extra S6 attacks).

 

Honestly, I think buying a combi-weapon is a better value, especially combi-grav thanks to relentless. Even that is debatable, though.

[Berzul]

I guess it depends on what you want it to fight against. I usually give my sergeant melta bombs and a chainsword, so he can go after vehicles. I run him in a unit of 4 to 6 bikes, and special weapons have not usually made that big of a difference in this role.

 

I am currently working on getting together a couple of bikers with flamers. The idea is to make a squad of 6, give the sergeant the melta bombs, then combat squad them and pair the 2 flamers together to send them out to hunt some infantry (i have a friend who plays tau with lots of stealth suits that annoy me inmensly), while the sergeant goes with the other two to bomb the hell out of any heavy vehicles they can get their hands on.

 

... I'll have to include an attack bike to tag along with a multi melta, now that you need it to make use of the combat squad rule.

[Frater Cornelius]

Yeah, I think the cheaper, the better. Attack Bikes are great. They can bind Cultists or Rangers in melee, blow up stuff and are very easy to hide.

[Liberame]

Just give him a melta bomb and his 3 man squad can help hunt tanks and harass stuff

[Elios Harg]

Agreed on cheaper = better, especially since I'll likely swap a few of my usual meltagunner bikes for grav-gunners.

 

I think the key for those using the RWSF will be when to use the turbo-boost jink move to position for a turn 2 (or 3 when out of reserve) shooting attack vs. just positioning to shoot turn 1. Often with melta-gun squads this is followed by a quick death anyway due to being so close to the enemy. The bolter half is usually turbo-boosting get to objectives.

 

 

As a side note, plasma guns need to drop in points. This is particularly true for bikes. Plasma guns are inferior to both meltaguns and gravguns a bike. Up close, most would rather have the S8 AP1 melta option than 2 S7 AP2 shots. Meanwhile, beyond 12", having 3 shots to 1 is a no-brainer.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

IMHO RW bikes should only be in CC if it looks safer than being out there shooting. That said I still think that the Good CC weapons are prohibitively expensive and don't make a RW bike unit that much better in CC.So my opinion at this point is that combi weapon to reinforce shooting isthe best weapon for a sarge.

[Elios Harg]

Agreed, I think power weapons (all cc weapon upgrades, really), in general, tend to be overpriced. I'd like to see power weapons dropped to 5 and fists dropped to 10. Chainfists and thunderhammers should be 15.

 

It's like assault squads, I'll likely never put eviscerators on the squad despite how cool they are because they are super expensive.

 

Anyway, back to load out. I think naked, non-vet sgt with 2 MGs and a MM attack bike or 2 GGs with either a HB or MM attack bike, I like multimeltas, but the HB has more anti-infantry synergy when you don't combat squad.

[Liberame]

2 GG, with the MM, the GG have better anti infantry than the heavy bolter except against imperial guard or worse really. And even then you can simply use the twin linked bolter instead.

[Elios Harg]

Attack bikes fire both. One gun per rider on a bike. Also, when you are within 6" remember to have the driver throw a grenade!

 

BTW, Sammael gets to do that now too, he can toss a 'nade and fire his plasma cannon simultaneously (assuming you don't have a better grenadier option in his unit).

 

D'oh just realized you meant the gravgunners. Ah well, still good info for this that weren't already aware

[WellSpokenMan]

Looks like I'll be sticking with the Chainsword/Meltabomb combo.  Thanks for all the input guys.  

[Interrogator Stobz]

I face a lot of vehicles etc with inbuilt or superior cover type saves; I have armed my bikes with either Plasma or now Grav for TEQ/MEQ duty, and given my Sgts Melta bombs for the vehicles where there is no cover.

IMHO, The only things that MSU RW should be in CC with are things that cannot hit back. I have some Combi melta and flamers that might get added, but that will be spare points, not standard issue.

[Elios Harg]

I must say that, despite my better judgment, I am suddenly finding myself wanting to do power lances on all my sergeants and hunt masters simply because I can.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Three bikes. Two grav guns. Sergeant with combi-grav. Clone as many times as you need. Add extra models to fill up points if you have to.

[Frater Cornelius]

MSU is something I am not convinced of just yet. I get solo MM Trikes. I love them. But MSU bikes do not really add much board presence for their cost and break faster than the WS equivalent. Maybe it is the way I play, but I do not trust in MSU.