HazardousWaster Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 What are people's thoughts on the formation? I quite like the idea of it but it seems pretty points intensive. I'm not worried about tourneys or anything that serious but don't want to be just blown out of the sky straight away too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm sure a Stormie commander will be in soon to help you out, but from all I've seen the formations are a great way to run them. If you have the models and points that is! Some form of ground troop is important though, as they need to be enough to weather any storms so your flying Scions can come in and save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I've run the formation exactly once, so take what I have to say with that in mind. For one, it is very points intensive and you need to take that into account. It will be the focal point of your army, for one. As you justly worried about, this means that you'll also not have a lot left to spend on boots on the ground. Secondly, you're taking four flyers that struggle to do squat to other flyers. ITC rules (commonly played on the west coast) help a bit because they allow ordinance missiles to be fired with other ordinance missiles without causing snap fire (though the other weapons are still affected.) You can either equip them with lascannons and hope for the best, or, as I did, equip them for ground attack and either hope for the best or take other anti-air firepower. Thankfully, IG makes a great ally for this army. Field the formation, plus some bodies on the ground, plus another flyer (Vendetta is what I recommend) to dogfight, and you've go an army that can contribute until they show up. You can field a small clutch of heavy weapons to strike at transports within the IG detachment and then allow the dropping in kasrkin to finish the job once the enemy is exposed. An Officer of the Fleet is also a perfectly fluffy addition to this force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Threw this list together for giggles. Its less men than I fielded, which is probably a good thing since most people that own five valkyrie hulls don't also have a couple hundred IG... ...I'm weird I guess. IG CAD: CCS - Camo Gear, Master of Ordinance, and Officer of the Fleet Veteran Squad - Lascannon and Forward Observers Veteran Squad - Lascannon and Forward Observers Veteran Squad - Lascannon and Forward Observers Veteran Squad - Lascannon and Forward Observers Ratlings x4 Vendetta Gunship Airborne Assault Formation: Scion Command Squad - Plasmagun x4 Commissar Scion Squad x10 - Meltagun x2 Scion Squad x10 - Meltagun x2 Scion Squad x10 - Meltagun x2 Valkyrie - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter x2, and Hellstrike Missiles Valkyrie - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter x2, and Hellstrike Missiles Valkyrie - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter x2, and Hellstrike Missiles Valkyrie - Multilaser, Heavy Bolter x2, and Hellstrike Missiles Battle Plan: Deploy your infantry in cover and tell them to keep their heads down. Heck, go to ground if you even get shot at and hope the enemy isn't Salamanders in Drop Pods (and if they are you NEED to go first.) On turn two, you should get most, if not all of your flyers in (re-rolls for the formation and 50/50 chance of +1 from OotF.) Then the fun begins. I take the missiles on the Valkyries because of ITC rules, so I'd probably spend turn 2 finishing off most of the armor that isn't AV14. Those guys get to eat melta. If the enemy came at me quick enough, I won't even both to wait for hover mode and will have them jump out the back of a perfectly good plan if need be. After the Valks drop their missiles, they switch to taxi/anit-infantry. Hope that list gives you some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazardousWaster Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thank you very much for your input chaps, greatly appreciated! Sounds like a good overview thank you,everything is going to have it's weaknesses so it seems other flyers will be this ones. I think the scions are a bit on the expensive side too, 15 pts more than a tactical squad and only 5 in a box for £20. How ever the amusement factor of playing ride of the valkyries when you make your reserve roll and drop them all into play could surely tilt the scales. But I guess that's mandatory for this formation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Mandatory enough that the commissariat will find you if you don't :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Personally, I ran this formation with an imperial knight. Since the new night codex, I'd give it an anti aircraft weapon on its carapace. since you're virtually guaranteed to arrive on turn 2, things can get really messy for an aggressive opponent. Personally, I always opt for the rocket pods, so hordes do not perform well against this force. That leaves anto vehicle and anti MC to your scions and knight. In my local meta, heavy vehicles are seldom played due to their expense, meaning I equipped my scions almost entirely with plasma guns. This worked very well. The ground assault formation has had similar results, with overly aggressive enemies being torn to bits. That being said, a "gun line" or "castling" opponent will probably be quite difficult to deal with when using this formation. Edit: Yes, I also played "Die Valkyrie" on my phone after successfully rolling for my reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I have not played this formation, yet, as I'm missing 2 of the required 4 valkyries. I have played Elysians though, and they wreck aggressive forces. Even forces that like to castle up, or gunline, airborne does pretty well, since it gets you up the board very reliably. Not only does it get you up the board, the speed with which you can do it, will tend to take the opponent by surprise, especially if he's not used to dealing with that kind of speed. If the opponent has no interceptor it makes his life very difficult when he can't down your aircraft before they drop their payload. Playing Elysians, I just start my first turn by playing Wagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I have not played this formation, yet, as I'm missing 2 of the required 4 valkyries. I have played Elysians though, and they wreck aggressive forces. Even forces that like to castle up, or gunline, airborne does pretty well, since it gets you up the board very reliably. Not only does it get you up the board, the speed with which you can do it, will tend to take the opponent by surprise, especially if he's not used to dealing with that kind of speed. If the opponent has no interceptor it makes his life very difficult when he can't down your aircraft before they drop their payload. Playing Elysians, I just start my first turn by playing Wagner. Have not encountered this type of opponent yet, but I am glad to hear this style of attack can deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 The thing with armies that like to castle up, is that they typically have much better range, so you need to get in close to negate that. Couple that with his relative inability to hit you, as most castling armies won't have the anti-air options (yes I know that castle guard will take ADL's and Hydras) and that castle tau will take skyfire on everything. That said, most marine armies don't lend themselves to castling up, those that do, like Imperial Fists and their successors, will take more stalkers and hunters, and in large quantities, along with Devs. Marine armies don't lend themselves to it as much, as they can't bring as much armor to the mix. Guard is the best for castling up, as you can get an ungodly amount of tanks in a list (between LR's, and the devil dog/hellhound, and the Chimera, you have a ton of anti armor and anti infantry killing power there, not to mention Command tank squadrons) that's a ton of places to get hard hitting firepower that can let you free up a HS slot or two for some hydras. Tau are also pretty good at it being able to take skyfire on battlesuits. Castled up marines are meat for the grinder if you dump 30 scions in front of them at RF range, pop the twin linked order and hammer him with AP2 and AP3 shots. That's going to eat his infantry, when you see that that's 60 shots all ignoring his armor. His 5 man dev squads and 10 man marine squads are pretty much dead, since he'll be taking cover saves that are about as effective as guardsmen. What doesn't die will likely break and run. Whatever you took to stay in the game first turn will probably be enough to mop up his Air Defense Tanks. I mention castling up, because you'll want to do so to keep from getting shot off the board before the cavalry arrives. A knight or a small guard CAD with vets and tanks would be the best. A Knight Paladin would be superb as he can hit from your deployment zone, and then get aggressive after your reserves arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 How ever the amusement factor of playing ride of the valkyries when you make your reserve roll and drop them all into play Yes...this. And this: The cool factor is high...effectiveness...lags behind. It's a fun formation to run. I like the idea of a knight, maybe a knight and throw the rest of the points at an allied GK formation? Or Pask and some mechanized veterans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I like the Pask and Mech vets idea the best, since it fits thematically with the cavalry coming to save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiberiusHecktor Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The Valkyrie formation seems incredibly counter intuitive to me. Putting vets/scions in Taurox's etc has the added bonus of protecting the squads for at least a little while, given how squishy they are. They can zip around shooting out of fire points. If you're going to use Valkyrie's instead and dump your guys in the open, why would you not just be using veterans instead, being cheaper and filling basically the same role?The one big advantage of Scions is they have deep strike, so spending 125 points to put them in a Valkyrie isn't any advantage at all is it(assuming your planning on using grav chutes, and why wouldnt you)? At least if you take Scions naked and deep strike them without transport it offsets the costs dramatically compared to Vets who need to take some kind of transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The big thing is, the valkyries are all independent, so they can all fire at different targets, and the whole thing comes on at once, with a singe reserve roll. Scions have MTC, so grav chuting has less chance to kill them when they scatter, because MTC lets you reroll dangerous terrain. Also, Vets come in 10's only, and with scions you could run the formation MSU (3x 5 man squads), loaded with special weapons, to melta all the tanks, or plasma all the TEQ's. That's why. Also because it's fluffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Also, the other formation special rule...twinlinking on the turn that they exit the valk...any turn in which they exit the valk. Now, if you're smart, they jump out and that's that, but theoretically, they could arrive on turn two, bailing out and blast something with twinlinked fire, then load back up on odd numbered turns and jump out again on even numbered turns. The main reason you wouldn't do this is that you give up a turn of shooting to get back on board, not to mention that hovering valks are sitting ducks. But...in an extreme situation, where you jump out an melta something, then have both need and opportunity to get back inside and fly over to the other flank and melta something else...getting the twinlinking twice is twice as nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Also, the other formation special rule...twinlinking on the turn that they exit the valk...any turn in which they exit the valk. Now, if you're smart, they jump out and that's that, but theoretically, they could arrive on turn two, bailing out and blast something with twinlinked fire, then load back up on odd numbered turns and jump out again on even numbered turns. The main reason you wouldn't do this is that you give up a turn of shooting to get back on board, not to mention that hovering valks are sitting ducks. But...in an extreme situation, where you jump out an melta something, then have both need and opportunity to get back inside and fly over to the other flank and melta something else...getting the twinlinking twice is twice as nice. Dear God... Yes this so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 With the short range of hot-shots, I bet that getting that twin-linked twice would happen more often than we give it credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 That adds up to a lot of dead MEQs. That's another reason why to use scions instead of vets, is the fact that their base weapons are AP3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 too bad they reroll to hit, not wound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Still, a lot of chances to roll that 5, especially with basic marines making a comeback thanks to battle companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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