Truesight Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 They look fun to use, so how effective are they? How have you used them in the past and how did they perform? I'll list some options I've been looking at using them with. -Special weapons team, 1 demo charge, 2 flamers: 60 points. Ol' faithful. They jump out of an vendetta and really ruin someones day. Then die, but that's ok, because they are 60 points. -Veterans demolitions doctrine, 2 meltaguns in Taurox. -160 points Drive up as fast as you can towards enemy armour. Delete armour. Since you are in the middle of the enemy, throw a demo charge, you'll probably delete something else. -Death Rider Command Squad, 5 riders with demolition charge- 120 points 10 wounds of cheap objective secured cavalry in the Krieg Death Rider Squadron, that will mess up marines on the charge, can give orders, and toss a demo charge to boot. Pretty cheap too. -Death Korps combat engineer squad, 10 engineers with heavy flamer, demo charge, melta bombs and a hades breaching drill. -185 -These look kick ass. Highly mobile, pretty tough with their 4+ wardsave, can deal damage to hordes with flamers and shotguns, and elite infantry will have to tiptoe around the demolitions. Oh and they can kill an imperial knight on the charge with their breaching drill. I feel you could pack in 6-8 charges in a list without focussing too much on it, how would it play out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Charges are niche in that they serve a particular role only, but they do it rather well. Best on small, cheap and suicide units as being one shot isn't an issue given you'll never get the chance to throw one again :P I wouldn't treat them as a core part of your list though as they're too random. If you want AT, get some proper weaponry for the task. Demolitions are the bonus trick up your sleeve to try and ruin your opponent's day. If you did get quite a few in without sacrificing too many points then I reckon it could be quite good. The potential to throw spanners in all of your opponent's plans as he tries to dodge a load of charges being chucked could be effective. Even more so if you get some good hits in, with some luck you could do serious damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 It always amuses me to see people work so furiously to kill a squad after it's already thrown its demo charge...pro tip: the horse has left the barn! Just throw some incidental fire from a few rhino stormbolters or something. Whatever the demo charge killed, it killed. Don't make matters worse by marching your entire army to the rear to deal with the perpetrators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 A friend of mine likes to use Demo doctrine on his melta vets. Mostly because of the idea of shooting 3 meltas at a tank, then charging said tank and finishing it off with meltabombs. Then hucking the demo charge at some infantry or light vehicle next turn. Now, I really like the idea of using suicide demo SWS. Because it's 3 demo charges in a pretty cheap unit of 6 dudes, and all you need to do is run them up the board and get them in a position. Chances are the opponent will ignore them to deal with bigger threats like the Melta Mech Vets, or Russ tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caine 24th Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Demo vets can be a very effective counter deepstrike as they can be kitted out cheaply and leman russ's or such are usually higher priority targets for the enemy. I mean you can really hurt a very expensive enemy squad. On the downside, the scatter can't be trusted all that much. Also it seems the skyhammer space marine formation allows charges out of deep strike (probably a great counter to this tactic). Flesh tearer strike force ally allows 6 empty drop pods for a battle brother. melta vets with demo charges could have a field day. Still this can be risky and points will start to add up. My summary would be fun to use, but not to be counted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think they are very worthwhile additions to your collection. Especially when you run a few SWS's. I'd have them running up behind a Bullgryn wall and then pop out at the last minute to drop off some demo goodness before the Bullgryns jump in. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think they could be amusing in a list with lots of artillery. Your enemy is getting pounded turn one so he has to rush you. But when he does there is...more pie plates. If I am not mistaken they can even be thrown in overwatch, as long as they are within the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think they could be amusing in a list with lots of artillery. Your enemy is getting pounded turn one so he has to rush you. But when he does there is...more pie plates. If I am not mistaken they can even be thrown in overwatch, as long as they are within the distance. Nope...overwatch= snap shots, and blast weapons cannot be snap-shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxichobbit Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think they could be amusing in a list with lots of artillery. Your enemy is getting pounded turn one so he has to rush you. But when he does there is...more pie plates. If I am not mistaken they can even be thrown in overwatch, as long as they are within the distance. Weapons with the Blast rule can't be fired as Snap Shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I've taken triple charge special weapon squads on more than one occasion. I always put them in a flyers. They come out, wipe an enemy (and sometimes themselves) off the face of the globe, and take the objective if the enemy then chooses to ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 We have such variety in our troops choices despite only having 2. I love the guard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 rofl...the infantry platoon...technically, it is just one troops choice...you're right, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 My Tau jar is now the Imperial Guard jar. For collecting those sweet, salty tears of goodness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The Infantry Platoon is a work of art, it's so much fun to build a list with. I'm a big advocate of the ol' SWS with 3 charges in a Vendetta. They've had a stunning and hilarious track record and if the winds of fate blwo your way, you can annihilate a squad of more than double their cost while leaving an Objective Secured unit in your opponent's face that are now such a non-threat it's barely worth shooting them. But they will, because you just blew up their Khârn + Khorne Possessed Deathstar, and are now trotting over with a squad of 3 Lasguns and 3 Frag Grenades to mildly irritate some other Marines. I'd also consider it worthwhile to give them Krak Grenades, as at 96pts you'll have a unit that will just run around annoying the heck out of your opponent until they decide to waste a squad shooting at them. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The Infantry Platoon is a work of art, it's so much fun to build a list with. I'm a big advocate of the ol' SWS with 3 charges in a Vendetta. They've had a stunning and hilarious track record and if the winds of fate blwo your way, you can annihilate a squad of more than double their cost while leaving an Objective Secured unit in your opponent's face that are now such a non-threat it's barely worth shooting them. But they will, because you just blew up their Khârn + Khorne Possessed Deathstar, and are now trotting over with a squad of 3 Lasguns and 3 Frag Grenades to mildly irritate some other Marines. I'd also consider it worthwhile to give them Krak Grenades, as at 96pts you'll have a unit that will just run around annoying the heck out of your opponent until they decide to waste a squad shooting at them. I'm going to have to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I used to do something similar with 10 SM scouts...I'd give the sergeant a fist and stormbolter, and the squad a heavy bolter, then throw them into a melee they could win...when 4-5 models popped out the other end, I'd park them in some cover and annoy my opponent with 3-5 shots a turn...just the right balance...he couldn't quite ignore them, but they weren't a priority, either...was it really worth sending that 300 (at the time) point assault squad over to root them out? Would it be better to let them pop a couple rhinos or pick off stragglers from a depleted squad? Tough choices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I just build my wish list, and 3 Demo SWS made the cut. It's honestly the best use I can see for the SWS. Sure you can give them melta but they'll miss half the time, at least with demo charges it's a template so you can still hit even if you scatter. You can use them to knock a vehicle off an objective, and then hold it. Or you can use them to wipe an infantry unit out, to then hold the objective. It's a really useful unit, and I think better than giving them meltas. I think that DC, GL, or Flamers are the best options for SWS, given the BS3 that they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampyrerodent Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Correct me if I am wrong, the Special Weapons Team members with the Demo charge simply become suicide members with their explosives, as this upgrade must replace their lasguns, according to the codex. Yet the Veterans get to keep their lasguns? So, the weapons team then becomes a three man team assuming three demo charges were taken and used. I am wondering if this is simply a misprint. Or explains why the Veterans are the veterans that they are. Anyway, this makes for some fun modeling opportunities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Correct me if I am wrong, the Special Weapons Team members with he Demo charge simply become suicide members with their explosives. Yet the Veterans get to keep their lasguns? So, the team then becomes a three man team assuming three demo charges were taken. I am wondering if this is simply a misprint. Anyway, this makes for some fun modeling opportunities... Yeah, the SWS replace their Lasgun with the Demo Charge, but get to keep Grenades. This makes them pure cannon fodder after dropping their packs. Veterans only get one maximum, though, at a slightly greater cost if you want them to be expendable. I mean, Demo Charges are awesome. If you've got a Vendetta in the neighbourhood, it's 90pts for an SWS equipped with them to hitch a ride and if you've got a CCS in position when they are, giving them Fire On My Target to drop 3 S8 AP2, Ignores Cover, Large Blasts is hilarious. That's the sort of single-turn firepower a Riptide could only dream of, for half the price. It balances out in being a one-shot deal and also in being very tough to get in position. But when you do, hoo-boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You could get your preferred flavour of Marines as allies or just the Flesh Tearer Strike Force and stuff Demo Vets in pods. You land close T1/T2 so the hilarity can ensue sooner and more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You could get your preferred flavour of Marines as allies or just the Flesh Tearer Strike Force and stuff Demo Vets in pods. You land close T1/T2 so the hilarity can ensue sooner and more reliable. I realize that allies can make up for a lot of deficiencies in the guard codex, but there's just something about the challenge of winning without crying to the astartes for help. I'm not against allies (in fact I ally my knight with my guard quite frequently), but I've got to say, I know there are a few people on this forum that, like I do, hate the idea of putting guard in drop pods. If you're going to invest that heavily in an ally, just to use his toys, you may as well just leave the Guard at home and play that other army instead. Guard is not a top tier competitive army, it can be played well at tournaments, but it doesn't make a good WAAC army. I honestly hate the tournament player mentality, it kills the game (look at Magic the Gathering), and it's not fun. Tournaments bring out the worst in people, the nice guy who you play against on saturdays, now becomes an insufferably, vicious, prick, just because he wants to win that prize. So if winning is all you care about, do this, and enjoy what you reap from it... rant over. Demo vets are fun, but I think the Demo SWS is where demo charges really shine, since the unit is cheaper, and has more of them to use. The only thing that makes Demo Vets worth it is the fact that they get meltabombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Wow, you really have been meeting the wrong crowd. Frankly, I have no idea if people are really that way. However, I never react that way. I know that if I focus so much on winning that things are less enjoyable for myself and my opponent and in the end I will be disappointed or (if I do win) it will not be a satisfaction. Focus on the things around and the way you are taking there and you will have a better time. As for the efficiency, squeezing the maximum out of a concept is part of what I like about the hobby. Sometimes, I do the most horrible lists, but you generally only see me playing one faction with one Knight if it fits in. Concepts and list building does not mean I would play it :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 ~shrug~ I only really ever start thinking about allies when I run into something that, a, is common, and b, my codex can't handle. Case in point, back in about 2011-2012, nob bikers were just ridiculous....so I scratched around and...what's this? Hellhounds? Ok, I'll try that. It wasn't an easy button, but it did put a dent in their cheese. Fast Forward to 2014-2015...I don't have a guard answer for daemon lists that spawn 300+ points worth of free models every turn...so I'm slowly working on five strikes and a GKL for an allied detachment. The strikes aren't exactly a tax in the context of a guard list, lol, and the GKL is just what the doctor ordered in terms of countering, but nowhere near auto-winning against, daemon cheese. Next problem: I play mech guard, what do I do about necrons...~shudder~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 My last meta had so much WAAC it's not even funny. I hate it when I trash an opponent's list, because then neither of us gets to have any fun. I always apologize when it happens. I have done stormtroopers and space wolves in drop pods, and it was so vicious, I never want to do that outside apoc ever again, it was that brutal. I've played against plenty of guard lists that were hard to beat, but fun. The right combination of armies can make things fun and interesting, while the wrong combination can make things bullcrap. Pods and guard are one of those combos I think are WAAC bullcrap. I didn't mean to point fingers if that's what it sounded like. That's fine for tournaments, but i think it has no place in friendly games. I'm a fluff player, I like the armies to make sense, so If I'm going to use a drop pod it's going to contain space marines or a dread. But I think we've beat this dead horse enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 There are different ways to play the game and neither is more correct than the other. Just a case of different people enjoy different things which should be a good thing as it demonstrates the wider appeal of the hobby. So yes, in cases like this the best thing is to agree to disagree if necessary ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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