2500pts Emperors Children, with/without Primarch

[MorgothNL]

Seems like a good list. Now that you have it mostly ironed out, I'll be interested in hearing how you do.

Part of me is wary of having so many close combat units in reserve, with no highly reliable way of ensuring their timely arrival. This seems like an odd choice to make when Emperor's Children are one of the most proficient legions at ensuring reserves arrive when you want them to via Fulgrim and the Maru Skara Rite of War. IMO this would be a far better Fulgrim list then an Eidolon one since you already have a Chaplain for your mandatory HQ.

What about swapping Eidolon for Fulgrim and dropping one of the Kheres Mortis Dreadnaughts? Put in some 15 points worth of shavings (Extra Armour and a Vexilla on the Vets possibly) and it really opens up what this list is capable of. You aren't suffering for anti-air, given you have two Storm Eagles, so the loss of a Mortis wouldn't hurt you that bad.

It also allows you to select your Warlord Trait, which has major consequences for this army. I'll leave it up to you to decide which one would work best, but I have some ideas.

I think that will exactly be my Fulgrim list :). I'll calculate how the points end up soon.

What would you suggest as a tweak to make it more a Eidolon list then?

[Theredknight]

You have to have to take a legion champion centurion as mandatory mate, Id bloody love it if it was any hq!!

Makes that open blade (1"extra for the FIRST TURN only) seem all the more worth the 130pts you spend on him doesn't it!

[MorgothNL]

You have to have to take a legion champion centurion as mandatory mate, Id bloody love it if it was any hq!!

Makes that open blade (1"extra for the FIRST TURN only) seem all the more worth the 130pts you spend on him doesn't it!

When going for Maru Skara yes. But what I/we were talking about, was taking this list, drop a contemptor and eidolon, and add Fulgrim. 

That way the reserves would be reliable and I'd still be playing Pride Of The Legion... so I wouldn't need a Champion.

 

I'll see what I can do to add reserve reliability to the Eidolon list, cause you're right, my list does have it's best units in reserve and I need them to arrive T2 or T3 latest. Can't afford having them arrive T4 by bad luck.

 

EDIT:

I think I'm too light on AT am I not? :( 

Looks like I'd have to move my Rhino veterans into melta bomb combat too, which means I've got nothing left to get objetives.

Those palatines and Fulgrims squad, wont do much with just 1 melta bomb in each squad. On that note.. is Fulgrim the only primarch that can't deal with armour?

 

Still think I'm getting close to a nice list though :), feel like I'm almost there!

[Caustic63]

Seems like a good list. Now that you have it mostly ironed out, I'll be interested in hearing how you do.

Part of me is wary of having so many close combat units in reserve, with no highly reliable way of ensuring their timely arrival. This seems like an odd choice to make when Emperor's Children are one of the most proficient legions at ensuring reserves arrive when you want them to via Fulgrim and the Maru Skara Rite of War. IMO this would be a far better Fulgrim list then an Eidolon one since you already have a Chaplain for your mandatory HQ.

What about swapping Eidolon for Fulgrim and dropping one of the Kheres Mortis Dreadnaughts? Put in some 15 points worth of shavings (Extra Armour and a Vexilla on the Vets possibly) and it really opens up what this list is capable of. You aren't suffering for anti-air, given you have two Storm Eagles, so the loss of a Mortis wouldn't hurt you that bad.

It also allows you to select your Warlord Trait, which has major consequences for this army. I'll leave it up to you to decide which one would work best, but I have some ideas.

I think that will exactly be my Fulgrim list . I'll calculate how the points end up soon.

What would you suggest as a tweak to make it more a Eidolon list then?

Making this a better Eidolon List then? Hmm. I'd try something like this:

Put the Phoenix Terminators and Chaplain into the Lascannon Storm Eagle. Change the Extra Armour Storm Eagle into a Dreadclaw and drop one Palatine Blade, adding Eidolon to this unit and running them inside it. Next, take a Deathstorm Drop Pod with Drop Pod Assault. You can then use the leftover points to plug any holes you feel might be left in the list, such as the Chaplain not having a Power Spear, etc.

Doing this means both your Dreadclaws arrive Turn 1, meaning reliable reserves are less critical. If you find the points, Krakstorm missiles are the best weapon Deathstorm Pods can take - also pay attention to the recent FAQ of Deathstorms which clears up how they shoot on the turn they arrive.

[MorgothNL]

I don't like the Deathstorm droppods so much, because I can't use them if I ever do go for maru skara, and.. dunno.. don't like them :$.

Same goes a bit for dreadclaws, I don't mind having one, but I already don't like the thing on the table after it dropped it's payload. It's just hanging there annoying both me and my opponent. A storm eagle actually still looks cool and does stuff after dropping the squad. But hey, I guess I just being very difficult here.

 

What about this (just sticking to the 'original' idea before moving on too far):

 

+++ EC (2500pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

+ HQ +

Lord Commander Eidolon
··Master of the Legion [Maru Skara]

 

Legion Centurion [Champion, Melta Bombs, Boarding Shield, Artificer Armour, Sonic Shrieker, MC Power Fist] 

+ Troops +

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier]
··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Melta Bombs]

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier]
··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Melta Bombs]

 

+ Elites +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [Dreadnought CC Weapon With Graviton Gun, Chainfist With Graviton Gun, Extra Armour]

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]

Palatine Blade Squad [9x Palatine Warrior, 4x Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shriekers]
··Palatine Prefector [Phoenix Spear, Melta Bombs]

 

Phoenix Guard Terminator Squad [4x Phoenix Terminators, Grenade Harness, Sonic Shriekers]
··Phoenix Champion

+ Fast Attack +

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Two Twin-linked Lascannons, Extra Armour]

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Four Hellstrike Missiles, Extra Armour] 

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Lascannons]

+ Legion +
 

Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children] 

 

 

So thats the Eidolon list. Running Maru Skara.

Eidolon will join the Phoenix Guard and the Champion will join the Palatines. Which means both squads have a Power Fist/Thunder Hammer, so some AT possibility. 

I've changed 1 contemptor mortis to a normal one with chainfist, cc weapon and 2 graviton guns. He will be in the dreadclaw. I'm hoping that those 2 haywire shots + his 3 CC armourbane attacks, will be able to reliably take care of armour T2.

 

The tacticals are now there just for objectives, and maybe get into position for a fury of the legion.

 

 

If that doesn't work.. I could.. perhaps drop an eagle for a landraider.. but I was liking where this was going.

[MorgothNL]

Or this, still running Maru Skara, but heavier on the AT:

 

+++ EC (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Lord Commander Eidolon

··Master of the Legion [Maru Skara]

 

Legion Centurion [Champion, Void Shield Harness, Melta Bombs, Boarding Shield, Artificer Armour, Sonic Shrieker, MC Phoenix Spear]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier]

··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Melta Bombs]

 

Legion Tactical Squad [9x Legion Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier]

··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Melta Bombs]

 

+ Elites +

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [Chainfist With Graviton Gun, Twin-Linked Lascannons, Extra Armour]

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]

 

Palatine Blade Squad [9x Palatine Warrior, 4x Phoenix Spear]

··Palatine Prefector [Phoenix Spear, Melta Bombs]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [6x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Melta Bombs]

··Legion Veteran Sergeant

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Two Twin-linked Lascannons, Extra Armour]

 

Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter [Ground Tracking Auguries, 3x Two Kraken Penatrator Missiles, Battle Servitor Control]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Lascannons]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children]

 

 

T1 the Dreadclaw would arrive with the melta veterans, doing the same as always. T2 Maru Skara would ensure arrival of both the Storm Eagle and the Primaris. Primaris and veterans would have this turn to destroy transports or big anti-aircraft threats, so that Eidolon + Champion + Palatines can cut stuff T3. Void Shield Harness is a try-out, see if it gives the palatines some more resilience since I dont have a medicae cause I need the champion for Maru Skara.

 

Meanwhile the tacticals would go for objectives or good positions.

Sicaran will do what he need to (move flat out to get into good position, or just shoot a rhino for example)

Contempor mortis would move midfield for best AA position and best range on squishy walking units.

Contempor talon would slowly move forward, shooting or running depending on the situation, but making sure his fist seems like a threat to the opponent.

 

I think this list has reliable AT, reliable deployment with Maru Skara and 1 nice CC unit, while still having troops for objectives and a sicaran + 2 contempor for target saturation and firepower if need be.

 

Too bad I'm not running the Phoenix Guard here, but both they and palatines suck for their points and have no AT possibility, I realise I can't run both and expect it to work.

 

Still have 35pts left here btw. A

[Theredknight]

Only way Is to try them out man!

Personally I don't like assault units in reserve due to their lateness in the game, against a few opponents missing those extra bodies in combat/on the table can make a difference t3/4.

 

Even at 3k I won't use flankers, too many things to take!

[MorgothNL]

Only way Is to try them out man!

Personally I don't like assault units in reserve due to their lateness in the game, against a few opponents missing those extra bodies in combat/on the table can make a difference t3/4.

Even at 3k I won't use flankers, too many things to take!

In my experience, it's good for dedicated assault units to be in reserve. Against most armies they are useless turn 1 and 2 cause most stuff is still hiding in Spartans and landraider (especially when you're assault unit is squishy and can't really take out armour themselves). Your assault unit needs to win the game, and your opponent knows that. If they are on the board t1, they get hammered.

Having them in reserve means that you have 2 turns to split his army, open his Spartans, weaken his heavy infantry. Then t3 the assault units assaults.. And usually wipes out a unit per turn. Once you've killed his 2 best units left, the game if often decided turn 5.

 

The storm eagle makes sure that you didn't actually lose a turn, cause it can get you in the same postion T2 and T3, as you would have been able to get in a landraider.

 

All games that I remember, that had my assault unit arrive when I wanted to and saw my melta veterans kill his transports, ended up not even about objectives.. But about whether or not I could get my opponent tabled.

 

 

Maru Skara makes sure the reserves arrive T2 (because yes, having them arrive later does make it very hard to win), and I think that with the melta veterans assaulting t2 and the Primaris arriving t2, I should be able to break his army enough to finish it with sustained fire and the killings of my assault unit.

 

It's the flanker and reserves that gives us the only advantage you have with EC. He can't decide how to deploy and move because he doesn't know what we will do. Most of the time the opponent will either split his force too much, or bunker too much. First option makes it easy to pick away at his units we fear, and the second makes it easier for us to win the game by board and objective control.

[WolfOfHorus]

At this point, why not just run Orbital Assault? No need for the claw and the potenial for better positioning army wide. Yes you'll lose the Sicarian, but it'll open open up other options such as Support Squads etc.

 

So long as you remember that units can stay in their pods.

[MorgothNL]

At this point, why not just run Orbital Assault? No need for the claw and the potenial for better positioning army wide. Yes you'll lose the Sicarian, but it'll open open up other options such as Support Squads etc.

 

So long as you remember that units can stay in their pods.

Because orbital assault always plays the same. Don't think my opponents will have much fun playing that list more than a few times. 

 

You don't think the list as last posted will be any good? 

[WolfOfHorus]

Well, it's going back to do you have enough AT? In my area tanks and knights are plentiful and that'd be nowhere near enough AT.

 

And oddly Maru Skara seems best used with Fulgrim for the MotL.

[Caustic63]

Well, it's going back to do you have enough AT? In my area tanks and knights are plentiful and that'd be nowhere near enough AT.

 

And oddly Maru Skara seems best used with Fulgrim for the MotL.

 

I'm going to defend Morgoth's list and say that there seems to be plenty of AT, or at least enough to play a close game against a highly mechanized opponent (and given the Knights, Solar Auxilia vehicles, and the ones Legions have, they are admittedly quite common). Once you start adding Quad Gun Rapiers, Deredeos, Laser Vindicators and Strike Predators the character of the list changes and becomes more stationary, and that is not the style of play that he is going for with this army.

 

Also, Fulgrim does not fill the mandatory HQ requirement in a Maru Skara list (and the Champion is specifically listed as a mandatory second HQ) so he functions awkwardly in this arrangement because you still need double HQs and hence have to pay for yet another character you don't necessarily need. A Chaplain is a reasonable choice if you decide to go this route, but this sort of army is going to be lacking some tools because you are shelling out for so many characters.

[Theredknight]

I agree. Unfortunately ec units are very 'glass hammer' if we could have apothecaries in our specific units it would make it a lot more survivable. But if you want one you have to invest circa 130pts in him.

(In all the background there is a larger than normal amount of apothecaries due to the earlier accidents) would be nice to see it represented. Alas it isn't so..

As caustic says to use Maru you need min 2 characters, and a champion isn't even really worth the same as a chaplain, but you can strap a void shield harness onto him.

 

Your list seems quite fluffy and quick, so go with it. I'm trying one, albeit with no ec units in involving jetbikes and jump packs. I love the purple and gold but it's almost a standard legio force. Except mc hammer, who brings a world of pain when it's 'hammer time'

[WolfOfHorus]

I didn't say it did, it just doesn't force you to take a Praetor.

[MorgothNL]

For the first time in a long time, am still happy with a list a came up with, after 48 hours, so I think that the Eidolon list is going to be the one :D.

 

For the Fulgrim version, I know I can't run Maru Skara in the same way because of the extra hq etc, but with Fulgrim, I should have enough control on my reserves. So the Fulgrim list would look something like a combination of my old lists, and the new Eidolon list:

 

+++ EC (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Centurion [Chaplain, Melta Bombs, Boarding Shield, Artificer Armour, Sonic Shrieker, Power Weapon]

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Missile Laucher ans Suspendor Web, Tank Hunters, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier]

··Legion Veteran Sergeant [Power Weapon]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [5x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Melta Bombs, Tank Hunters]

··Legion Tactical Sergeant

 

Phoenix Terminator Squad [6x Phoenix Terminators, Sonic Shriekers, Grenade Harness]

··Phoenix Champion

+ Elites +

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons]

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [Two Twin-linked Lascannons, Extra Armour]

 

Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter [Ground Tracking Auguries, 3x Two Kraken Penatrator Missiles, Battle Servitor Control]

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Lascannons]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children]

 

+ Lord of War +

 

Fulgrim the Illuminator [Fireblade, Pride of the Legion]

 

 

Think this is quite clear? I swapped the Palatines for Phoenix Guard, I have those models, would like to use them, and they look cool around Fulgrim. If it really works a lot better with the 10 palatines, I'll swap them back, but I'll first give this a shot.

 

Ordering everything I'm missing probably tomorrow. Thought I was nearly there, but it's still a hefty €500 pricetag -.-.

 

Edit:

Ordered it all

[Caustic63]

Just out of curiosity, what specifically did you order?

 

Did you decide to go for the custom EC accessories on your legionaires? (chest, helm, shoulderpads)

[MorgothNL]

Just out of curiosity, what specifically did you order?

 

Did you decide to go for the custom EC accessories on your legionaires? (chest, helm, shoulderpads)

 

I ordered:

1 Anvillus

1 Lighting Primaris

1 Eidolon

5 Phoenix Guard Terminators

5 Tartaros Terminator Power Axe Set

5 Palatine Blades

 

5 MKIV Despoiler Squad

5 Emperors Children Torsos

10 MKIV Emperors Children Shoulder Pads

 

 

So those despoilers will be my melta bomb veterans most likely. 

I ordered the Phoenix Guard for the spears to give those to the palatine. And ordered the power axes just to be able to use them if I want.

 

I hate the $%@ out of the EC helmets, so I didn't order those. Those eyes are too big and too evil looking.

[Theredknight]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/16FB809D-35BF-458D-BF4F-A2BE228A0F2E.jpg

 

FYI, shortening them up and swapping the hands out is fiddly, but they look pretty good if posed right.

[WolfOfHorus]

Every time you order from Forgeworld you could've sworn your getting more models than what you paid for.

 

I bet you married are used to being screamed at for $600 on like 40 models.

[MorgothNL]

FYI, shortening them up and swapping the hands out is fiddly, but they look pretty good if posed right.

 

I'll take my time to make sure they are done right :). At least it's not hard to shorten the spears if need be, they break when you look at them already. 

 

Not sure if I'll also repaint my current 5 palatines. Those were the first models I painted for the army, and I painted them with different techniques than the rest of the army. One doesn't really notice right away, but once might if they are in a group with 5 others to compare them with. 

 

I think I'll have enough to paint in a day or 2, repainting will be the 'dots on the i' once I'm finished with the rest.

 

Can't wait to get the models, put them on bases and be able to play a game with the complete army. It's going to look so nice when it's all painted up :).

[ThatOneMarshal]

You dont have a Spartan on that list...

soo....

Spartan + storm eagle in one list? Still has the problem with not allowing Eidolon and his awesome looking JP inside .

Outflanking the JP or infiltrating them won't work either in 7th (no charge allowed).

I'll see if I can come up with something that includes an Eagle and spartan.. That I like and fits EC in my view.

One thing that you may consider is Fulgrim with the master of the Ambush warlord trait. The trait gives your forces inlfitrate to three units inlcuding Fulgrim. Put it on say your assualt squad or palantines so that you have a turn 2 assualt.

[MorgothNL]

 

 

You dont have a Spartan on that list...

 

soo....

 

Spartan + storm eagle in one list? Still has the problem with not allowing Eidolon and his awesome looking JP inside :(.

Outflanking the JP or infiltrating them won't work either in 7th (no charge allowed).

I'll see if I can come up with something that includes an Eagle and spartan.. That I like and fits EC in my view.

One thing that you may consider is Fulgrim with the master of the Ambush warlord trait. The trait gives your forces inlfitrate to three units inlcuding Fulgrim. Put it on say your assualt squad or palantines so that you have a turn 2 assualt.

 

 

You dont have a Spartan on that list...

 

soo....

 

Spartan + storm eagle in one list? Still has the problem with not allowing Eidolon and his awesome looking JP inside :(.

Outflanking the JP or infiltrating them won't work either in 7th (no charge allowed).

I'll see if I can come up with something that includes an Eagle and spartan.. That I like and fits EC in my view.

One thing that you may consider is Fulgrim with the master of the Ambush warlord trait. The trait gives your forces inlfitrate to three units inlcuding Fulgrim. Put it on say your assualt squad or palantines so that you have a turn 2 assualt.

I don't think infiltrate is very usefull to assaulty units. Still can't assault t1 en you'd have to put them within, let's say 13, inch to be able to get off a good chance of making the assault t2, and thats if the opponent doesn't back off. They will get shot to bits just as if they arrived via deep strike. And after that, there's overwatch.

 

Terrain is the thing that might actually make infiltrate work, if you can get really close but still be safe. Luckily one can choose the wl trait every game, so if the terrain is good, I can use infiltrate, but I'm not going to rely on infiltrate as a strategy for my army.

[MorgothNL]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/16FB809D-35BF-458D-BF4F-A2BE228A0F2E.jpg

FYI, shortening them up and swapping the hands out is fiddly, but they look pretty good if posed right.

These are mine :

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/MorgothNL/IMG_5213_zpswxffrx1i.jpg

[Theredknight]

Fiddly enough for you?