Effective use of breachers

[Terminus]

Yes, it would be nice if they had mantlets.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

New idea.

 

Forgelord in terminator armour. The forgelord consul can also choose anything from the tech priest wargear. So rad grenades, graviton gun, and conversion beamer.

 

So now my lead character is relentless, has 2 blast weapons to chose from AND remove one point of toughness on the first turn of combat

 

He is every bit as tough as anyone in the unit and can have a 4++ save if you use cyber familiars.

 

Relentless enables some throwing arround of grav templates while moving and its an extra blast if you have the squad in position to hold an objective.

 

The conversation beamer might be a bit redundant if it cant also be fired with the graviton gun but it add range if you find your breacher were left high and dry (cos they were clearly to awesome to face! ;-))

[Charlo]

While cool, the whole "putting one guy into a suit of terminator armour to give the whole unit relentless" is a bit of an exploit. It was forbidden until the new books came out and seemingly forgot to mention the rule, creating the loophole...

 

But otherwise it's nasty

[Slips]

While cool, the whole "putting one guy into a suit of terminator armour to give the whole unit relentless" is a bit of an exploit. It was forbidden until the new books came out and seemingly forgot to mention the rule, creating the loophole...

 

But otherwise it's nasty

Right but wrong :p it wasnt Relentless it was Cataphractii and Slow and Purposeful (a debatable topic we wont get into =][= ).

 

Also, a Forge Lord in Cataphractii with cyber familiar has a 3+ invulnerable.

[Charlo]

While cool, the whole "putting one guy into a suit of terminator armour to give the whole unit relentless" is a bit of an exploit. It was forbidden until the new books came out and seemingly forgot to mention the rule, creating the loophole...

But otherwise it's nasty

Right but wrong it wasnt Relentless it was Cataphractii and Slow and Purposeful (a debatable topic we wont get into =][= ).

Also, a Forge Lord in Cataphractii with cyber familiar has a 3+ invulnerable.

Yah, SnP. I thought it was that but since Loki said Relentless I just quoted it :P

[Wolf Lord Loki]

While cool, the whole "putting one guy into a suit of terminator armour to give the whole unit relentless" is a bit of an exploit. It was forbidden until the new books came out and seemingly forgot to mention the rule, creating the loophole...

 

But otherwise it's nasty

That was a thing?!?

 

Huh! Didnt know that was possible!

 

My actual reasoning was one of the maindraw backs of graviton guns is that being heavy they cant move and fire.

 

The forgelord would still be able to fire his as the unit moved and once in position the whole squad could stand and shoot.

 

Depending on how big the unit is, you'd now have between 3 and 5 graviton shots when the unit is stationary and one on the move

[Caillum]

Bit of threadomancy, but figure the subject matter is still relevant.

 

So, I'm committed to running Breachers as my Alpha Legion Troops, riding in Proteus Land Raiders. But how much should I invest into them? Meltaguns seem worth it, especially if I take Tank Hunters as my Mutable Tactic. Melta bombs are pricey across the squad, but would help deal with my mate's Knights.

 

Any thoughts?

[Charlo]

The way I see breachers is that there is a fine line between a block of expensive/ useless dudes and a murder wall of ceramite.

 

I think if you are using them as a main part of your force, putting the points into them is a great idea. Especially with Melta bombs and a land raider. Though with AL you could get away with using infiltrate tactic, scout with a Vigilator and then use Grav or still keep Melta and then combine with Dynat for deployment zone damage table shenanigans. Also add an apothecary for maximum survival.

[koran]

Im not sure why people give breachers such a bum deal.  Even outside of ZM.

 

First off I will agree that as a squad of 10 they blow.  So just ignore that for a second.

 

I think my main love for these guys was when I realised that the cost to by extra marines for breachers is the same as for tactical marines (10pts).  At that point I just look at the extra initial cost as paying 75pts to upgrade a tactical unit to have combat shields, void hardened armour and many many more options.

Thats 3.75pts each for a combat shield (normally 3pts by themselves), rerolling armour saves against templates (which with the prevalence of quad mortars and flamer support squads is almost worth it by themselves) and the ability to take melta (or grav) and breaching charges.  Well worth the points in my opinion.  I will add that if your meta hasnt got quads (or the new addition to phosphex is being used a lot) or flamers then maybe not but even then I think they will often work out better than FotL.  But again, only worth it in a squad of 20.

[Brofist]

I run them in every game, but we dropped their points a bit so people would use them more. Charlo has it right- they are a good blocking or defensive unit. They are decent against armour too, but the points add up fast. Breaching charges can also be very effective against multi wound models with low initiative. I run mine in clumps of 10 or 15 with Meltas, a Vexilla, and a single breaching charge. An apothacary is also a nice addition if you have the points. I don't bother with transports because in my list their job is to hold the midfield. A job they do very well.

[The laughing raven]

If you run an alpha legion coils rite you can have them right up close seizing an objective turn one and giving a fulcrum to fold your flanking stolen units (destroyer, grave warden and tac squad combo) whilst using the grav guns to slow or haywire desperately remanouvering enemy units. 15 strong with 3 grav guns and serg with lightning claw and venom spheres (gives unit hammer of warmth for 3A on charge & if you have pumped a couple of rad missiles into receiving unit from you destroyers the bleachers will be instant killing against imp gaurd allies, marines as well if you combo charge with the destroyers). And if anything does survive to hit back your 5++will stop power weapon wielding survivors from saving the day.

[Slips]

Rad Phage from Rad Missiles only works on Multiwound Models that Survive since the models hit need to take an unsaved wound for it to take effect. it does not affect a unit in its entirety even if only 1 model dies.

 

So yeah, the -2 toughness trick only works on 2W or more models. Like Mechanicum robots. Even better if you're Death Guard and are allowed to take the Relic for another -1 and ally in some Scyllax for another -1 when in b2b with them. Maximum of -4 toughness right there but only if they have 2+ wounds. Otherwise its max -3.

 

Also, go for Power Fist and Dagger on Alpha Legion Sarges. 3A Base for 2 Specialist Weapons meaning 4 on the charge and you get a choice of S3 Ap3 Rending at I4 or S8 Ap2 at I1. For Breacher Sarges, who cannot get the bonus because of the Shield, stick to the Fist for Insant Death vs T4.

 

Venom Spheres are of debatable usefulness to a unit like Breachers. Hammer of Wrath is a nice bonus but not all that great.

[Caillum]

You can't take venom spheres on Breachers anyway.

 

Slips is on the mark otherwise. Fist & dagger combo is too good to pass up. :)

[The laughing raven]

Well having retread the rules I see that I am sadly disappointed on that, however would still have the -1t (still enough to pee on a campfire) combined charge and I run my praetor with my squad so that is where the ven spheres come from, just don't like the idea of power fist and shield aesthetically, I know it is the beardy option but have enough of that from RoT.....

 

Mine sit as close to centre as poss and then roll the sides around giving them as the enemies main target so the reroll and invuln can soak up the shots I want my destroyers and Gwardens to avoid while they do the real dirty work. Have had them soak up a full termite squad, three turns of sniper fire and a tac squad with chaplain, and only losing a third of the unit, if not for the base cost I would make a full core choice of them.

 

Just shame they only do IH or IF shields for them, have found dark elf shields make an interesting look as they have a barrel hole in top corner but would be nice to have some proper hydra covered shields as would make great centrepiece unit.

[Slips]

I mean, if you want to give your Sarge another AP2 Weapon like a Thunderhammer or Axe, go for it. Just give him an Ap2 weapon in some form because 99% of the time, a Squad Sergeant will have Artificer Armor and an Ap2 Weapon himself. So you're very much aiming for Mutually Assured Destruction at worst.

 

As for the comment on "beardy" options, thats kind've the purpose of Tactica Threads: to find the most effective way to use something. If you dont want to use a Power Fist, you dont need to but be aware that it'll pretty much always come up as a topic if you have a Sergeant Loadout that doesn't include Artificer Armor and/or an Ap2 Weapon.

 

As for Shields, the Alpha Legion aren't known for their Breacher Units nor do they have a Special Unit that makes use of them like the Medusan Immortals, Phalanx Warders or Invictarus Suzerians. So thats why.

[The laughing raven]

Prefer lightning claw on mine, was more meaning it's a shame there are no generic shields that any legion could use although I would love some proper hydra shields as have an idea for a 3000pt infiltrating siege list with 3 big squads of breathers!

[Terminus]

Venom spheres only grant the bearer hammer of wrath, not the whole unit.

[The laughing raven]

what is the use of having them on grenade harnesses etc if they only affect the one model?

[Slips]

They count as Assault Grenades which Terminators do not have. But its only useful if they have At-Initiative Weapons...which they rarely will since Ap2 Weapons are usually the better option.

[Terminus]

Venom harness is not the same thing as venom spheres. The harness DOES grant the whole unit hammer of wrath, as well as putting out a pair of templates to go with the volkite to cull light infantry.

 

It's statistical long-odds, but a unit of 5 Lerneans could potentially murder 42 models + however many die to the blasts.

[Noserenda]

My Alphas field a unit of 15 breachers unless im fielding a veteran company, 15 with Grav guns infiltrate forward a bit and sit around plinking Grav guns at big tanks and holding ground. They do a decent job but definitely not points optimised. You do sometimes get silly situations where they hold off elites though, that said im a jammy sod with rubbish invulnerables :D

Bit of a no brainer to give the Sergeant a fist or hammer imho, his shield gives him a slight edge in Sergeant challenges too.

[defl0]

I wrote an article on using them with Raven Guard

 

http://www.petehappens.com/2016/03/the-legion-breacher-squad-is-not-squad.html?m=1

 

The highlights are that a tac plus a grav rapiers is basically the same points as 20 breachers with 4 grav guns.

 

So I'd you get first turn you have a good chance of banging up a spartan.

 

Infiltrate is key but adding a vigilator letso you scout up 6" as well.

 

It adds a lot to a alpha strike list and makes the sunk costs in your troop slot worth something.

[Charlo]

Plus difficult terrain only adds to breachers favour, bogging things down.

[Joe]

On the subject of Breachers (or rather, Boarding Shields), is it feasible to use a Tainted Weapon/Power Weapon and a Boarding Shield? Or is that limited to those silly Ultramarine people?

 

I'm speaking in regards to Praetor's, bodyguards, sergeants and the like.

[Slips]

What do you mean?

 

The only units that can take Boarding Shields are: Praetors, Consuls and units that have it as Standard Wargear (Breachers, Warders, Suzerians, Immortals).

 

So, yeah. Command Squads can only take Combat Shields and the only Sergeants who have Boarding shields are in the previously mentioned squads.