General Discussion

[Raktra]

I wasn't voting for 'nids, just out-loud musing.

 

And for the weapon presentations, Raktra's gun Heartworm was made outside the Berserker's in their usual canon.

 

I am so pissed I have no broadband to post properly at the minute...

[Doctor Perils]

I'm sorry to keep butting in like this, but I'm interested in this project, and I'm just trying to help you, even if I haven't actually got a legion... If you want me to stop, just tell me and I'll go away  .

 

I was wondering if you've planned about a "trifoil" (Russ, Vulkan & Alpharius Omegon) for the Brotherhood of the Lost. I was thinking that Russ and Icarion would be part of it if you did want a trifoil-eq. because both have got a secret purpose. But you'd have to look into which other(s) would be part of it.

To me it would be illogical for Icarion to have a specific title, as the Emperor wishes to keep his duty secret. However there can be other titles spread around some of the other Primarchs, like Custodian/Castellan or Steward of Terra, as well as Champion of the Emperor (who don't need to be from the same legion, or be the same Astartes/Primarch configuration as Dorn and Sigismund). By all means, other titles can be put in place, and not necessarily by the Emperor, the High Lords of Terra or the Warmaster. For instance, I could easily see some sort of "Surgeon General" who would have operated on the Emperor in the aftermath of the Triumph. With the amount of "apothecary legions" here, this could easily brPrew even more dissent, and further enhance the difference of views between the gene-puritans and -liberals.

 

Finally, the reason for the fall of one of the Primarchs (this could be Icarion, but really could be any of the other chaos ones) could actually be a theme that's extremely rare in the 40k universe, yet which is one of the greatest sources of emotion in the human race: this Primarch could fall in love, with a mortal woman. This woman could fall to chaos, dragging the Primarch with her, or else the Emp would have her killed: when the Primarch found out, he wants to have revenge, hence chaos (probably Slaanesh, but the other three could be made to work)...

[simison]

By all means, continue posting Thorn. I'm happy to hear outside opinions and new ideas. 

 

Good points about the titles, but I'm confused on the word tri-foil, and your example didn't help me. Is it about a group that reflects differences between each other?

 

That...is one loaded suggested, Thorn. Not going to lie. You are right that love is one powerful force, and the Emperor did have children so, presumably, he did love women. (While the Sensei have fallen out of the spotlight, I don't think GW actually has retcon them.) But the question stands, can a Primarch feel that kind of attraction? I have no idea. 

 

Still, I'm not going to veto it. What does everyone else think?

[Doctor Perils]

In Book III of the Horus Heresy, the Alpha Legion are said to be part of the "trifoil", a batch of three primarchs were developed apart from the others for special reasons - spoilers for Vulkan Lives

Russ would be the executioner (obviously), Alpharius Omegon was/were created to be the ultimate spies pretty much, and Vulkan to be a perpetual, presumably.

So yeah, basically Primarchs specifically created for different purposes than your "run of the mill" Primarch.

[Sigismund229]

I doubt primarchs can feel that kind of emotion, seeing as that would get in the way of their foremost task, namely to conquer and manage the Imperium

[simison]

Wow, I can't believe I forgot about that. I think we could easily run something like that. The question is which legions and what would be the strange effect/improvement?

[Doctor Perils]

Yeah, but as we've seen with other Primarchs, it's not exactly as if they all follow their pre-programmed behaviour...

 

Also, these Qarith seem like they are a mix between lizards (physically) and ants, so if you want to read up on them they can provide extra inspiration (of course, I think others will have already seen the link...)

 

I was putting Icarion forward for the trifoil because of the daemon hunting aspect

Edited August 9, 2015 by Lord Thørn

[MikhalLeNoir]

Woah. One half day off, and the thread exploded...

 

First off: Gwalchavad changes the side. I think chaos wouldn't fit and the rebels with the gene enhancements wouldn't fit too. But what if he waited for the end battle to finally chose his side? He IS tired of war. Loves peace and saw what the human race did for 10000 years and he was shocked. When his brothers which he thought could bring balancr to the force....aeh... I mean bring peace to the universe, waged war with each other. He waited until the final battle after there was a schisma in his own legion. When his terran born astartrs fought to leave and rushed to terra he came to his senses and realized, that he has to chose a side. He decided to help the emperor and his decission could turn the tide. A warden of light ;)

 

I think he should be found really early in the crusade and he has a lot of similarities with alexandros. He thinks bfore he acts. Tries the peaceful way first. But he fights when he must. He is very fast. Maybe the fastest primarch and agile. He attacks with 2 ellbowblades/ tonfas peacekeeper and peacebringer. Could be a gift too. He has his mask. Which controls his pariah ability which is very strong. Without the mask. Psykers grow insane when he looks at them with his white eyes.

He is not the tallest primarch. But very very slender, nearly eldar like. In a gold blue armor with flowing grey hair bonded to a pig tail and in this pigtail is a hidden blade. To increase his ahility he often uses a jumppack. Before he was united with the emperor he hid himself from the population of his world after he was king a few millenia ago. They had had good connections with the other races especially eldar which is the reason why he is xenos friendly. He tags along with most of hia brothers. Especially i think with alexandros but doesn't tag along with icarion because he thinks icarion kills a lot of innocent people ( he doesn't know of the ghost crusade). He doesn' tag along with the more brutal primarchs because he thinks. That they wage war for fun.

[Sigismund229]

Oh that reminds me. Would it be possible for Hectarion to be found relatively early?

[simison]

Thorn, I am struck by Fulgrim, the novel. Here we have a Primarch that is literally being overwhelmed by emotion and sensation. Yet, at no point, is he ever touched by the traditional form of lust. It wouldn't surprise me if the Primarchs are essentially neutered. Then again, Chaos can happen...

 

Mikhal, several points and questions. One, I've always wondered about the 10,000 years ahead of everyone else deal. That would place Gwal right in the middle of the Dark Age of Technology. To me, that would introduce several possible plot holes. Why doesn't Gwal save any of the STC, if not all of them? Why doesn't the Emperor contact him? And so on. I'm guessing it's supposed to be a quirk, but wouldn't a 1,000 years or even a hundred work as effectively?

 

Two, I do like the idea of him trying to wait out the civil war only for his own legion to become split over his non-intervention. You point to the Terran marines for splitting the legion, and I think that's sound. However, to be able to split the legion, there needs to be a high number of them. For that reason, I think Gwal should be discovered in the middle toward the end to allow an even split. Also, I don't guarantee that Gwal alone will swing the tide of the final battle, but he'll have an impact, I can assure you.

 

Three, not sure who'll be the fastest Primarch, but I'll consider Gwal a contender for the title.

 

And thanks for the other background fluff. It helps form the story. 

 

229, possible, but I really need to make a system for this since so many people want to be found early. Thankfully, after Icarion and Alexandros, Primarchs are typically found with only a few years in between discoveries. 

 

 

Hmmmm.....so, to anyone who wanted to be an early Primarch. If I told you had to pick a number between 1-1000, would y'all hate me?

[Sigismund229]

If that many people want to be found early, I'd be happy for Hectarion to be found middlish or wherever is most conveniant.

[simison]

If that many people want to be found early, I'd be happy for Hectarion to be found middlish or wherever is most conveniant.

 

For your generosity, I placed Hectarion at 9th. Thank you.

 

EDIT: Also, I like the idea of Gwal of holding his legion back during most of the civil war because it creates a balance if the Jackals up and go full Renegade, departing to the Frontier.

Edited August 10, 2015 by simison

[Chief Captain Redd]

I have got a decent amount of writing to catch up on for the weapon gifting tomorrow.

[simison]

I have got a decent amount of writing to catch up on for the weapon gifting tomorrow.

 

Yeah, your idea is a hit, but don't feel rushed. Athrawes and I have been working on our lost legions for over a year, so we're not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

EDIT: I've added the Ghost Walkers to their proper spot. 

 

EDIT 2.0: Depth, were you serious about your Primarch not playing any part? Because I had a sudden idea to add some Dark Side points to Alexos. Or Raktra. Or inflict a deep, dark secret on one of the Loyalist Primarchs.

Edited August 10, 2015 by simison

[Sigismund229]

If you need a loyalist primarch to give a dark thing(bot sure how secret it would be tho) to, Hectarion(before the Emps drove out the remaining bits othe bloodthirster that had embedded itself in his mind) attacked the Empero.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Simison, Did you have an idea for Alexandros' pistol?

[simison]

If you need a loyalist primarch to give a dark thing(bot sure how secret it would be tho) to, Hectarion(before the Emps drove out the remaining bits othe bloodthirster that had embedded itself in his mind) attacked the Empero.

 

That can definitely count as an embarrassing secret. 

 

EDIT: Again with the posting at the same nanosecond. But yes. Er, no. Mechanically, it's just a master-crafted plasma blaster. As to any embellishments, I never thought of it. Vulkan was the original creator of the pistol, so I imagine it had some kind of dragon theme going on. In this continuity, feel free to give Daer'dd free reign over any cool add-ons. If you want Alex's themes, his colors are deep purple and bright red. He primarily comes from a Greek background (and no Dorn cramping on his style!). 

Edited August 10, 2015 by simison

[MikhalLeNoir]

Oh man, this is so much fun. :)

First to the easy ones: He would be the fastest in the canonverse so he matches up russ strenght amd angrons brute force with his elgant flow and agility (the flow is essential for a hiphop primarch)

 

Order of appearance: well I never thought of an even split. In the canonverse they were about the ones wjwho swelled the ranks of the ultramarines. But in our newverse ;) whe can go for the half and so we can tag along with the middle discovery. The tenth then?.

 

Now for the complicated one: why doesn't the emperor contact him? Woul he know about him? When there arrives someone on a backwater world. A pariah? Even in the canonverse the emperor didn't know where all the primsrchs are. And this time around he didn't evem knew. That thete was even one ( my os this confusing) on the stks: we are talking about a time frame of 10000 years. Not every primarch is a fit scientist or even asmith. Nut the easiest response: he didn't care for them

To him they where tools od destruction used primarily to create weapons. For him it was better to let them rot because no one could be hurt by far lesser advanced weapon that much. Man this primarch is kinda naive...:) the lthe long time is needed to show him the ultimate nature of the human race. I mentioned before. That he left his place as a leader vacant and watched the people of his planet from afar.

 

I

Hope that helpedm but if you think okay. On canonverse it makes sense. But in newverse 1000 years is easier to declare. I would tag along. But togheter we could clarify all plot holes

[simison]

Later, actually. To maintain an equal or almost-equal ratio of Terran to Warden marines, he'd have to come later to prevent attrition from thinning out the Terrans. I'm thinking 15th place at earliest. 

 

Fair point about Gwal being a Pariah, but the STC issue still is a huge whole. I actually wasn't referring to weapon STCs, but was thinking of the more peaceful ones. There is a STC called Panacea that can literally cure any disease afflicting Humanity. Why wouldn't Gwal save this STC? Keep in mind, I'm using a specific point about a general issue. Your motivation seems to be to give Gwal enough time to learn about human nature. That is an interesting view and could be one of those things that it'll take a lifetime to figure out (which is about 80 years) or can't be answered (zen for the win!). Still, you've agreed to a thousand years. I think his background would be stronger if it was fewer years, but if you're dead set on that number, I won't press the issue. 

[Skalpynock]

Yucahu has to be found in the latter years of the crusade, at the Imperium's apex, so that he is really inspired by his first impressions. Not really one to celebrate after a battle, rather leaving ground immediately to plan for the next world to bring into the fold. Being constantly on the move, and crusading for a misguided ideal, he is untouched by the growing tensions between the Imperium, the Traitors, and the Revolutionaries. Perhaps is he gifted with mild psychic abilities, not of foresight or telepathy of his brothers, but fleet-wide awareness of each ship's location and movement. Perhaps he's just a really good admiral. He wears a brazen Tartaros-pattern armor covered in motifs inspired by the Aquila, and bears a power spear and archeotech revolver. Don't know whether to keep the Terran/Coabanite schism, would make for a good event during the heresy.

 

Pertaining to Kozja, I'd have the Vizenko event be triggered by a debate over certain legions planning to give apothecaries more privilege concerning what they do with geneseed, mirroring the canon Librarius. Let these be Pionus, Kozja, and the Jade General. There it is not a trial for errors already committed, but a warning of what horrors venturing too far can bring.

Then at the Triumph, he feels betrayed again by the Emperor; not because he wasn't chosen himself, but because only one was chosen. In his mind, all primarchs ought to rule the Imperium equally, one's shortcoming compensated by an other's ability. This does not come to pass. Alexandros Darshan VonSalim has become first above equals, not amongst, regardless of his own thoughts on the subject. It is not about Alex in particular, it is about the Warmaster, and the Emperor's decision. And now that he retreats to Terra, there can be no choice but to obey the Warmaster, or disregard imperial decree. A solution that seems more and more attractive, as the Emperor betrayed him twice and has now retreated, secluded from any diplomatic reconsideration.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Skalpynock

[simison]

I've updated the list. Yuchau is 17th, while I've placed Raktra at 16th. 

 

That is also a workable theory for the Prosecution event. I can see the Jade General mirroring Kozja's decision to strengthen the Apothecarions. You'll have to talk to Slips about Pionus' position.

 

I also really like Kozja's reaction to the Warmaster appointment. It's a view we don't really see in the canon-verse.

[Slips]

Finding position: if the 7th slot is still open Id take it!

 

As to his position on apothecaries: he is essentially one so he could be like the thousand sons in this regard, pushing the boundaries. He and his legion, however, would never do anything perverse to the gene seed and basic human structure being all about human perfection.

 

Instead of adding onto the human frame, they would refine bolster vs taking good eldar genes and splicing them in.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Slipstreams

[depthcharge12]

 

 

I have got a decent amount of writing to catch up on for the weapon gifting tomorrow.

Yeah, your idea is a hit, but don't feel rushed. Athrawes and I have been working on our lost legions for over a year, so we're not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

EDIT: I've added the Ghost Walkers to their proper spot.

 

EDIT 2.0: Depth, were you serious about your Primarch not playing any part? Because I had a sudden idea to add some Dark Side points to Alexos. Or Raktra. Or inflict a deep, dark secret on one of the Loyalist Primarchs.

I'm game. I haven't thought much of what their primarch would be other than a Succesionist. He'd hate the manifest destiny of the Imperium and feel that it just needs to protect humanity, not dictate over it ruthlessly. More of a tribal or anarcho-style Galaxy empire. Each planet keeps to themselves unless a greater threat presents itself.

[Big Bad Squig]

Why does all the exciting stuff happen when I'm sleeping? 

 

On discovery order, Azus would like to be nearer the end.  Koschei can go anywhere.

[MikhalLeNoir]

So we could place him to the beginning of the age of strife. Some 4000 to 5000 years ago. He fought agaonst the "iron men" ( eat this tony stark) and as this war was running. The stks were destroyed. The eldar helped the remaining humans on mellyn afterwards which is the foundation of the affinity for xenos. What do ya think?