IL XVII - The Warriors of Peace (thread 1)

[Praefectus Invictus]

I think dark blue would look good as the secondary colour, keeping to the dark theme

[simison]

I think dark blue would look good as the secondary colour, keeping to the dark theme

 

Thoughts on where to put it? The only place I'm opposed to is on the pauldrons (though not the rims) because I did that with the Wardens.

[Praefectus Invictus]

Maybe the lower half of the legs, and the arms(not pauldrons)? The helm could look good, but not really sure where else

[simison]

Was thinking on it, then I realized I should've mentioned something else. I fully intend to "derive inspiration" from Dynasty Warriors, and have tried to figure out ways to add green (Shu), red (Wu), and blue (Wei) to specialty units. Probably identified on helmets. The current image is just for a bare bones, standard tactical legionnaire.

 

But I'm having trouble figuring out which units should get which colors.

 

I know Wu has a strong affinity for fire and ships, so perhaps breachers and flamethrower units get the red, but that feels incomplete.

 

Wei and Shu, I'm not sure where to begin. For Wei/blue, I'm thinking the despoiler squads since Cao Cao was known as the "Hero of Chaos", and mori...moritarts? 

 

Shu has the five tiger generals and the barbarian auxiliaries, but the emphasis seems to be much more on the nobility and capability of its officers.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Destroyer and Moritats could figure under Wu. Possibly Seekers and Dreadclaw units reminiscent of Chi Bi/Red cliffs.

 

Shu was famed for its 5 tiger generals, but it was otherwise notarised (and overly romanticized) in the Novel as being heroes of the people. Maybe an elite coterie, Terminators and Heavy Weapon Squads, or Mechanicum allies, due to their 'lightning' based gear and Zhuge liangs weather relations?

 

While Cao Cao and the Wei peoples (and later, Jin) were famous for their Heavy Cavalry; Bikers, Jetbikes, Rhino mounted infantry, and also their huge numbers; his army numbered over a million (supposedly) as they chased the Shu 'army' (at the time, mostly armed peasants).

[Skalpynock]

Did that before Hesh's more meaningful post:

http://i.imgur.com/gxeuIeK.png

[simison]

Still looks cool, Skal. 

 

And thanks for those thoughts, Hesh. I'd forgotten that Cao was a cavalry expert. (For some reason, I thought Lu Bu was, and Cao was an infantry expert.) I think it makes a lot more sense to have all the bikers, jetbikes, and vehicles to have some kind of blue. Meanwhile, despoilers I think should have white helmets. Since it's Chinese culture, white is considered the color of death, which meant my Pariah unique unit was going to be in complete white armor.

 

The Liang connection could be done through allies, but connecting green helmets to the officer corps really does appeal to me. Not sure if I'll extend it to terminators and elite guard units.

 

Lastly, I agree that moving the destroyers and moritat over under the Wu side would fit well.  

[Hesh Kadesh]

Lu Bu was never really an army in and of his own right; in the books, he was a fantastic warrior whom Dong Zhou saw potential in, and had him come over with promise of wealth and riches. After that, a plot was hatched with a serving girl (Black Cicada I think she was called) acting as the honey trap to split up Dong Zhou and Lu Bu, with Lu Bu killing Dong Zhou before fleeing, where he joined Liu Bei trusting to Liu Bei's reputation as being forgiving. When Liu Bei left one of his castles in Lu Bu's name, the latter took advantage and seceeded from Liu Bei, with only a small detachment under him. It would have been too costly for Liu Bei to attack (his was at the time the smallest realm of what would become the three major players), and so went to Cao Cao for aid, who loaned him an army.

 

Lu Bu and Zhang Liao were captured, Lu Bu killed due to his reputation and attitude, and Zhang Liao going on to fight with distinction for Wei against Wu, notably He Fei castle/Xiao Yao Ford, where 800 men of Wei under Zhang Liao held off the entire Wu Navy for long enough that the return of Cao Cao's army would scare off the remainder of the Wu navy?

 

Are you going to have a Lu Bu/Zhang Liao type character analogue? I have a character in mind in my story (I hope to get something written when i get back from work tonight) who splits from the Drowned, taking a small army with him; perhaps he seeks help from yourself, before stealing one of your significant bases; when you return to the base, you can call on me to come help deal with my errant sons (before any of the events majorly kick off). We recapture the base, along with both the Lu Bu and Zhang Liao equivalents; because of Morro's attitude, I kill [Lu Bu] out of hand, and give [Zhang Liao] the option of rejoining me, death, or relying on the mercy of your Primarch? Perhaps keep his ship which you name along the lines of "Red Hare", one of my Gloriana class frigates? Brief idea, sorry, don't mean to step on toes.

[simison]

Still makes for an entertaining video game though. 

It was Lu Bu's execution I was thinking of. He makes one last plea to Cao Cao, exclaiming of his superiority as a (what I thought he said) as a Cavalry Commander combined with Cao Cao's skill as an Infantry Commander and the two would rule China. Liu Bei points out the obvious Lu Bu backstabbery, and Cao Cao orders the execution. It looks like I just mixed up the two specialties. 

I'm all for that idea! The Warriors of Peace could definitely use some character, and this could be a point of connection between our Primarchs. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Definitely. The rejection of the legion of its Primarch is intended to be a bit of a theme in mine and plays well.

 

I've not played DW since 5XL or Empires, sadly. I have 8XL on Steam but can't get my head around the controls on PC and sold my PS controllers years ago sadly

[simison]

DW8 was the last one I played. The story and cutscenes have gotten much better since 5. The gameplay has bounced around, but the core has never changed. Which I am okay with.

[Slips]

:O More Dynasty Warriors fans!?! <3

 

...though Admittedly, the last one I played was 4 and all its variations...I did see a stream/playthrough of 8 and it looks pretty solid but, as Hesh sadly found out, is very much a Controller game.

[simison]

I'm surprised I'm not the only one. 

 

But, seriously, you guys are missing out on 8. In 7, they added the Jin dynasty, and you played out what how the civil war ends. I liked they included the last part of the era, but was pissed off that you could only play it historically. Which means, Sima Yi's family wins in the end. Jerks.

 

But, they fixed that in 8. Now each kingdom has secret objectives to accomplish that'll change history at a critical point and bring victory to the kingdom you're playing as. Needless to say, I made sure Shu took their rightful place as rulers of China.

 

Unfortunately, the Jade General is much more like Cao Cao because Alexandros is pretty much the Western version of Liu Bei. (There! I tied it back into the topic!)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Liu Bei was a cannibal, you do realise? He visited a peasants house, who lacking food after Liu Bei's 'army' passed through decided to kill his wife and serve her up as the main course. I think the farmer was rewarded for his dedication XD

 

One of my favourite passages

[simison]

I'm pretty sure that was unknowingly at the time. Though, it did remind me of this comic...

 

http://san.paulguo.com/img/comic/85.png

[Slips]

[AlphariusOmegon108]

I... I.... I.... By the emperor's....

[simison]

Moving on from cannibalism, the legion symbol will be a jade dragon. I'm wondering if I should use an alternate naming system for legion units and organization, but a brief search on google didn't turn up anything. 

 

Since no single word covers boots and gloves, I'm leaning toward Jay's weapons being called 'An Artist's Tools'. Thinking about throwing in 'bloody' somewhere because punching through things with AP 2 weapons probably involves a lot of fluids going everywhere. 

[Praefectus Invictus]

Moving on from cannibalism, the legion symbol will be a jade dragon. I'm wondering if I should use an alternate naming system for legion units and organization, but a brief search on google didn't turn up anything. 

 

Since no single word covers boots and gloves, I'm leaning toward Jay's weapons being called 'An Artist's Tools'. Thinking about throwing in 'bloody' somewhere because punching through things with AP 2 weapons probably involves a lot of fluids going everywhere. 

Somehow I think you're right...

 

Anyway, how about 'Peace and War'? The hand offers peace (of death), while the foot offers war.

[simison]

That's almost as ironic as Curze's Mercy and Forgiveness. I like it!

[simison]

Now, they won't offer any Strength modifier (hence, Earth-style), but I'm not sure if I should give them any other special rules, besides the Duelist's Edge. Maybe Master-Crafted, and perhaps Strikedown? Will throw in Two-Handed for obvious reasons. 

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hey, what about these? I use them for my special units too, maybe this is interesting for ya: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/dynath?section=Shoulder+Pads&s=0

 

He even has chinese style weapons

Edited August 16, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir

[simison]

Nice looking products, though I am sad that they don't have a dragon pauldron. These are the right size for 40k minis?

[simison]

While, I'm at it, I should start working on the legion rules. Again, the 3 main themes of the legion are martial artists, acupuncture/Chinese medicine, and Pariahs. Unlike Grifft's legion, I want the Pariah's to just be a Consul upgrade.

 

And I want the legion rules to be limited to just two, unlike the Warden's 4. So, either two small benefits or 1 big benefit with a handicap.

 

Honestly, I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

EDIT: I've narrowed it down to two possibilities. Either a bonus to WS to represent their mastered styles or some kind of combined arms benefit to represent advanced Chibese warfare.

 

EDIT 2.0: If I go down the WS route, I've thought of 3 options. One, use Guilliman's WS gain rule. Two, x2 WS on the charge. Three, switch out the WS grid for the To-Wound grid. So, if a WoP has WS 5 vs WS 3, he only needs twos to hit.

 

EDIT 3.33: Now I said combined arms, but when think back to DW, I don't remember so much as combinations of unit types, but more like tricks, traps, and stratagems. I'm really not sure how to represent that kind of thing with legion rules without looking at Warlord Traits, but I'm pretty sure a Warlord bonus shouldn't be part of the legion rules. The only vague thing I came up with was a conditional ATSNK. Bah.

Edited August 17, 2015 by simison

[simison]

Bouncing back to Jay, equipment-wise, I see him operating a simpler amount of gear than Alex. His weapons, his armor, a pistol, and a set of assault grenades for that pesky terrain. Again, unlike Alex, Jade is a fighter first then a commander. So, I'm imagining his special rules to be a smaller set to. Sire, Pariah, and Bulky. 

 

Armor-wise, I'm seeing 2+ and 4++. Maybe even a 5++ since he'll have a jetpack. But if I do that, then I'm tempted to give him Fulgrim's CC 3++ to represent his martial art mastery. 

 

I'm not sure what to do for his pistol. Since speed is the name of the game, perhaps a specialized pistol that has more shots than your typical weapon? I don't want to say an uber bolt pistol, but I don't know which type would fit his theme better.