Slips Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Pistol: 40k Admech Flechette/Burst Pistol? Make it max S5/6 Ap3/4 but fire 3-5 shots? Also, dont limit yourself to Pistols. Curze uses Throwing Knives after all and on a 6 they ignore armor and invuln. saves. Armor: If you want his Invuln to be boosted in CC, 5++ > 4++ in that regard unless it comes with some form of Downside. You could go a fusion of the Angron and Fulgrim route. 3+ armor with a 4++ invuln boosted to 3++ in combat? Sire could be as easy as: Fearless Bubble, Ignore Disordered Charges, (Jay) Must Accept/Issue Challenges, Unit gains FC/C-A and +2 Combat Res. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hmmm, in that case, I think I'd rather have him throwing mono-molecular needles with extreme precision. Don't suppose giving the needles the sniper rule at 9 inch range makes sense? That is an idea, but I'm wary of 2+ armor. Only Angron has that weak of armor and that's because he's all attack. Although being a prodigious warrior, Jay is more balanced. I like the basis of that Sire rule, Slips. Fearless, Charge modifier, must Challenge. Will have to think about the others. What do you think of my struggle with the legion rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Instead of Sniper, you could give them Fleshbane and Precision Shots? Armor is up in the air. So you can decide when everythings in place. Its not like 2+ or 3+ armor matters all that much in Primarch v Primarch fights :p Legion Rules if we're going the minimalist route but still show some legion flavor through I see it going one of a few non-all-inclusive ways: 2 Strong Rules with 1 Medium-ish Negatives (or one big one) 2 Medium Rules with 1 Weak-ish Negative 2 Weak-ish Rules no Negatives Or any combination Thereof; such as: 1 Strong, 1 Medium with 1 Medium-Weak Drawback, for example. What were your initial Ideas? Seeing as Jay is a pretty balanced Fighter, his legion should have a pretty balanced war disposition, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yesh, maybe I shouldn't use Edits from now on. Here's what I wrote: EDIT: I've narrowed it down to two possibilities. Either a bonus to WS to represent their mastered styles or some kind of combined arms benefit to represent advanced Chibese warfare.EDIT 2.0: If I go down the WS route, I've thought of 3 options. One, use Guilliman's WS gain rule. Two, x2 WS on the charge. Three, switch out the WS grid for the To-Wound grid. So, if a WoP has WS 5 vs WS 3, he only needs twos to hit.EDIT 3.33: Now I said combined arms, but when think back to DW, I don't remember so much as combinations of unit types, but more like tricks, traps, and stratagems. I'm really not sure how to represent that kind of thing with legion rules without looking at Warlord Traits, but I'm pretty sure a Warlord bonus shouldn't be part of the legion rules. The only vague thing I came up with was a conditional ATSNK. Bah. Edited by simison, 17 August 2015 - 01:24 PM. Take your time replying. I have to go bed for I have school in the morn. Night. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Well, are you staying with the Traditional Elements of Earth, Air, Fire, Water? Because they make for Great RPG Archetypes: Earth = Tank Fire = DPS Water = Healing Air = Hybrid Fire/Water In Chinese tradition, there are FIVE ELEMENTS: Water, Fire, Earth, Wood (yes, wood, as in "from a tree"), and Metal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yeah, theres still Wood, Metal and I think Gold which are in the Chinese Elements. Not sure about Japanese or the others though! Well, are you staying with the Traditional Elements of Earth, Air, Fire, Water? Because they make for Great RPG Archetypes: Earth = Tank Fire = DPS Water = Healing Air = Hybrid Fire/Water In Chinese tradition, there are FIVE ELEMENTS: Water, Fire, Earth, Wood (yes, wood, as in "from a tree"), and Metal. I'm aware. But I wasn't really talking about the Chinese Elements in that post :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Was thinking on it, then I realized I should've mentioned something else. I fully intend to "derive inspiration" from Dynasty Warriors, and have tried to figure out ways to add green (Shu), red (Wu), and blue (Wei) to specialty units. Probably identified on helmets. The current image is just for a bare bones, standard tactical legionnaire. But I'm having trouble figuring out which units should get which colors. I know Wu has a strong affinity for fire and ships, so perhaps breachers and flamethrower units get the red, but that feels incomplete. Wei and Shu, I'm not sure where to begin. For Wei/blue, I'm thinking the despoiler squads since Cao Cao was known as the "Hero of Chaos", and mori...moritarts? Shu has the five tiger generals and the barbarian auxiliaries, but the emphasis seems to be much more on the nobility and capability of its officers. For Cao Cao, the exact quote from the fortuneteller the future conqueror saw, was "In orderly times, you'll be a hero. In chaotic times, you'll be an antihero." I use the term "antihero" as the closest translation for the term "jian xiong," which combines the term "traitor" (jian) with the term for "masculine" (xiong), which is considered a heroic trait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Nice looking products, though I am sad that they don't have a dragon pauldron. These are the right size for 40k minis? Yes. I use them for the Wardens ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Interesting, thanks for that tidbit Firewalker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 But, as you can see, I have several ideas on how to show the legion are a bunch of martial artists. I have almost no ideas on how to capture Chinese warfare based on the Three Kingdoms era. For the needles, I like the idea of Fleshbane with Precision since it's turning a tool of healing into a tool of death. Strength would be 1. Would AP 2 be unreasonable? What's the AP on Curze's knives? I'm going to go with the 2+ armor and the 5++ invul with CC bumping it up to 3++. No, it's not original, but it really does fit with his style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Konrad's knives are the same S and AP as a bolter, just with the potential to cut through anything. For your needles you could go with something like Rng:18", S1, AP6, Salvo2/5, Precision Shots, Fleshbane, Rending. The rending would be to show him hitting in the exact right point to go between the armour joints. Salvo fits to me as it allows him to stay still and throw more out to a longer distance or to get a few shots off on the move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Makes a lot of sense. I'll add that in after class. Thoughts on the Legion Rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4152475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 After reviewing jetpacks, I think I'll simply go with a jump pack since that's much more CC oriented. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4153492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Not that I'm against the Idea of Jay having a Jump Pack but, how many of our Primarchs are Jump Infantry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4153501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 [i honestly don't know. I don't feel like it's many, but I haven't been keeping a close eye on it.] The Jade General 4?? points Lord of the ??? WS BS S T W I A LD Sv The Jade General 8 5 6 6 5 7 6 10 2+ Unit Composition 1 (Unique)Unit Type Jump Infantry (Character) Wargear Peace and War Armor of the Physician Siang Jien Frag grenades Special Rules Primarch (Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion) Sire of the Warriors of Peace Pariah Bulky Special Rules Sire of the Warriors of Peace ??? ??? may be taken as Troop choices for a Warriors of Peace primary detachment with the Jade General as Warlord. Pariah Psykers, friend or foe, within 18' of the Jade General have -4 to their Leadership, do not generate any Warp Charges (i.e. they do not add dice to their owning player’s Warp Charge Pool in the Psychic phase) and only harness Warp Charge points on a 6. The Jade General can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers – other units in the Jade General's vicinity that are hit by beam or nova powers, or by Witchfire powers that use templates, are hit/affected normally. Any blessing or malediction psychic powers affecting a unit immediately cease to be in effect if the unit moves within 12" of the Jade General or vice versa. The Three Elements At the beginning of each Fight sub-phase, the Jade General may choose one fighting style from the list below: Earth Style - x2 S, Concussive, Unwieldy Fire Style - +1 Attack, Rampage, Opponent can reroll failed To Hit rolls Water Style - +1 Invulnerable Save, Precision Strike, -1 Attack The Armor of the Physician This armor provides a 2+ armor save, a 5+ Invulnerable save, and a Feel No Pain (4+) save. Siang Grants the Jade General the unit type Jump Pack Infantry. Can be used in both Movement and Assault Phases. Roll 1d6 less for Scatter and adds +1 to the Deep Strike Mishap roll. Peace and War A mirror set of power fists and power boots, unlike normal incarnations, the Jade General specifically requested that they be designed to be slimmer and easier to wield. As such, these weapons do not impair his lightning-fast style, while generating enough power to cut through the strongest of armors. Range S AP Type Peace and War - User 2 Melee, Two-Handed, Duelist's Edge Jien When not used as tools of acupuncture, these thin, adamantium needles served as precise throwing weapons for the Jade General. Their micro-edges combined with his enhanced dexterity and strength rendered death unto those that fell under the Jade General's eyes. Range S AP Type Jien Barrage 18' 1 6 Salvo 2/5, Fleshbane, Lethal Precision Lethal Precision: These weapons inflict precision shots on a 4+ and on To Wound rolls of a 6 ignore both armor and invulnerable saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4153513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 What the Jade General looked like came up, and I am torn over the issue. My first instinct was to say he looks like the DW8 incarnation of Cao Cao. Trade out the blue for jade, and the darker colors for white (since that's the color of death in China). But, then I remembered that he's supposed to Kung Fu master, and thought perhaps he'd eschew the more elaborate armor for something simpler, like this: http://www.journalofasianmartialarts.com/content/products/reflecting-on-traditional-chinese-martial-arts-past,-present,-and-future-453.jpg What his face looks like is much simpler. Take Chinese face, make it older, middle-aged. Add whiskers and thin, pointed beard. Black hair, and brown eyes. Simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4156437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Here's the first draft of the Legion rules for the Warriors of Peace along with a fluff blurb: Legion Astartes (Warriors of Peace): All units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup regardless of casualties. Dao of Jūn: All units with the Legiones Astartes: Warriors of Peace rule receive an immunity based on how many units are within six inches of them. If one unit is within six inches, the unit automatically passes Pinning tests. If two units are within six inches of the unit, the unit automatically passes Fear tests. If three units are within six inches of the unit, the unit automatically passes Morale tests. Martial Honor: All characters with the Legiones Astartes: Warriors of Peace rule must issue challenges when able. Unlike other legions, the Warriors of Peace approach warfare as one would any vocation. To them, warfare is their duty. Neither given into either the elation of slaughter or the despair of defeat, the Warriors of Peace maintain their stoicism in battle, no matter the odds they are against. It is only when a Warrior is at peace within himself does he achieve true mastery of the art of war. This eerie detachment, combined with the pariahs serving in their ranks, has intimidated both foe and friend alike. Among the few exceptions are, strangely, the Mechanicum. As the Warrior of Peace seeks to shed himself of fruitless emotion in battle, the tech-adept seeks to shed himself of fruitless flesh. I'm having a hard time remembering what and where I've written things down, so let me just put this here. Yellow Helmet - Sergeant/NCO Red Helmet - Support/Special/Unique weapons specialist Blue Helmet - Mobility specialist (bike, jetbike, jump, etc) Green Helmet - Officer Corps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4158271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 For the 'Sire' rule, I've decided to be much more conservative since he is getting the Martial Arts & Pariah rule. 6 inch Fearless Bubble Must challenge +2 to Combat Resolution for his unit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4159741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I guess now would be the time to start considering points for this guy then? As he seems to be basically complete at this point. To me in a direct comparison with K'awil I would put him at around the 455 point mark, as he hits better, faster and has more options in combat. He also has comparable Pariah abilities. The Ld modifier being more powerful, but specific to Psykers and his immunity to psychic powers instead of a blanket improvement to defense. I would also say that their buffs are fairly similar in power too, possibly with a slight advantage to K'awil due to him affecting the whole army, whereas Jade only helps those nearby. I haven't really compared him all that much to the other Primarchs so I'm not sure if he fits in with them at that price-point and power level. Will think on it longer and see if I can come to a conclusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4159954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'd put him around the 460-470 mark, with his fighting styles, ignore armour/invul throwing needles (That makes me laugh lol http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png), and peace and war. Not saying he's op, just that he is up there with the more powerful and combat-y primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4159959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 You're probably right. I was thinking he's not too much better than K'awil, but all the little things actually add up to a fairly big difference. I'll have to put his different combat forms into my calculator to see how much difference that makes to him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4160012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I would appreciate that. I have no idea where my Primarch calculator is in my Renegade Legion thread. And my time is more limited these days. Though 470 sounds better off-hand. Corax is 450, and he's the other Jump Primarch with different fighting styles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4160068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What the Jade General looked like came up, and I am torn over the issue. My first instinct was to say he looks like the DW8 incarnation of Cao Cao. Trade out the blue for jade, and the darker colors for white (since that's the color of death in China). But, then I remembered that he's supposed to Kung Fu master, and thought perhaps he'd eschew the more elaborate armor for something simpler, like this: http://www.journalofasianmartialarts.com/content/products/reflecting-on-traditional-chinese-martial-arts-past,-present,-and-future-453.jpg What his face looks like is much simpler. Take Chinese face, make it older, middle-aged. Add whiskers and thin, pointed beard. Black hair, and brown eyes. Simple. Well, now that I spent a good part of my days in trains, I attempted a quick sketch during commute: Hidden Content http://i.imgur.com/DL52jYD.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4166764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 The beard is good, the moustache is a tad long. The should be short enough where they don't hang. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4166813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) The Jade General 470 points Grand Commander of the Warriors of Peace, The Physician, Master of the Han WS BS S T W I A LD Sv The Jade General 8 5 6 6 5 7 6 10 2+ Unit Composition 1 (Unique)Unit Type Jump Infantry (Character)Wargear Peace and War Armor of the Physician Siang Jien Frag grenades Special Rules Primarch (Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion) Sire of the Warriors of Peace Pariah Bulky Special Rules Sire of the Warriors of Peace When it is necessary for the Jade General to take to the field, he is less concerned with leading his army as opposed to destroying his foes. As such, he is not content to sit and watch, but charges straight toward the enemy lines after identifying its weakest point. Although he maintains a mask of serenity, between his martial artistry and his pariah nature, he is a fearful and awe-inspiring foe. All Warriors of Peace within six inches of the Jade General have the Fearless special rule. If in assault, the Jade General must issue a challenge. At the end of the assault phase, the Jade General grants +2 to combat resolution to his unit. Pariah Psykers, friend or foe, within 18' of the Jade General have -4 to their Leadership, do not generate any Warp Charges (i.e. they do not add dice to their owning player’s Warp Charge Pool in the Psychic phase) and only harness Warp Charge points on a 6. The Jade General can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers – other units in the Jade General's vicinity that are hit by beam or nova powers, or by Witchfire powers that use templates, are hit/affected normally. Any blessing or malediction psychic powers affecting a unit immediately cease to be in effect if the unit moves within 12" of the Jade General or vice versa. The Three Elements Perhaps the only sign of martial desire, the Jade General has sought to master every kind of hand-to-hand combat known to the galaxy. Drawing upon his vast knowledge and skill, he has developed his own martial style that's well-known for its adaptability to the ever-changing tides of battle. At the beginning of each Fight sub-phase, the Jade General may choose one fighting style from the list below: Earth Style doubles the Jade General's strength and grants him the Concussive and Unwieldy special rules. Fire Style increases the Jade General's attack by one while granting him the Rampage special rule. While using this style, enemy models may reroll failed To Hit rolls. Water Style increases the Jade General's invulnerable save by 1 while granting him +1 to his Precision Strike rule. This style reduces his attacks by 1. The Armor of the Physician Based on ancient armor designs, this suit of power armor has been fitted with an advanced medical exoskeleton that maintains the Jade General's against even the bloodiest blows. This armor provides a 2+ armor save, a 5+ Invulnerable save, and a Feel No Pain (4+) save. Siang Not content to travel toward the enemy in a metal box, no matter its sophistication, the Jade General wears an advanced jump pack based on designs from before Old Night. It grants him incredible mobility and operates with a unique machine spirit which protects him from the hazards of flight. Grants the Jade General the unit type Jump Pack Infantry. Can be used in both Movement and Assault Phases. Roll 1d6 less for Scatter and adds +1 to the Deep Strike Mishap roll. Peace and War A mirror set of power fists and power boots, unlike normal incarnations, the Jade General specifically requested that they be designed to be slimmer and easier to wield. As such, these weapons do not impair his lightning-fast style, while generating enough power to cut through the strongest of armors. Range S AP Type Peace and War - User 2 Melee, Two-Handed, Duelist's Edge Jien When not used as tools of acupuncture, these thin, adamantium needles served as precise throwing weapons for the Jade General. Their micro-edges combined with his enhanced dexterity and strength rendered death unto those that fell under the Jade General's eyes. Range S AP Type Jien Barrage 18' 1 6 Salvo 2/5, Fleshbane, Lethal Precision Lethal Precision: These weapons inflict precision shots on a 4+ and on To Wound rolls of a 6 ignore both armor and invulnerable saves. [Added in fluff and picked 470 points for now.] Edited October 31, 2015 by simison Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312051-il-xvii-the-warriors-of-peace-thread-1/page/4/#findComment-4184101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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