IL XVII - The Warriors of Peace (thread 1)

[Grifftofer]

The only thing I would say is they should be around 8 points per extra peon. Afterall they still have space marine resilience and equipment, just not quite so much skill.

[simison]

Fair enough. I originally went to the Auxilia page to figure out how much an extra auxilia costed and compare that to how much a marine costs to figure out a nice balance. Turns out, no auxlia sections can be enlarged. All of them are set from the get go. Edited October 31, 2015 by simison

[Doctor Perils]

Nice idea. I take it they are troop choices, possibly a support troop choice ? Perhaps a special character could be a bit like the old Valhallan character with his conscripts, that allowed a destroyed unit to return at full strength on the edge of the table a turn later.

[simison]

Nice idea. I take it they are troop choices, possibly a support troop choice ? Perhaps a special character could be a bit like the old Valhallan character with his conscripts, that allowed a destroyed unit to return at full strength on the edge of the table a turn later.

 

Not sure about bringing the Russian general back. Definitely a troop choice though. Not sure about support status.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Nice idea. I take it they are troop choices, possibly a support troop choice ? Perhaps a special character could be a bit like the old Valhallan character with his conscripts, that allowed a destroyed unit to return at full strength on the edge of the table a turn later.

Ireton Masade and the mechanicum adsecularis troops have those kind of rules already. I'm not entirely sure I'd approve of a Legion have those units.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Edit; 20 man Tactical Squads have even less reason to be taken. 28 Peons have a potential 56 Rapid Fire Shots, which make up for the loss of BS for the same cost.

 

Removing Fury of the Legion, and access to Bolters and BP/CCW at the same time could be a Tactical only special thing. Maybe even restrict the Sergeants upgrades too,even more than they are.

 

That way, a Tactical Squad still has some actual use outside of just being popped in a Rhino. A Peon Blob is still better; 370 for 40 Bodies is basically 9ppm with +10 for the Sergeant, compared to 500 for Two 40 Man Tac Squads. The two Tac Squads can Fury for a double tap at long range which helps offset things slightly.

[simison]

I agree heartily about removing Fury of the Legion. It'd help emphasize how raw these marines are. I'm not as convinced on restricting access to the BP/CCW. Even if they're untrained, they should be able to switch between ranged and assault roles as part of their training. And the sergeant is supposed to be a veteran sergeant you'll find in any marine squad, so I'm against restricting his options.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I meant as in access to having both BP, CCW and a bolter on the same model.

Sorry for being unclear! Perhaps, similar World Eaters, if you are struggling for ideas, you could give Tactical Squads free Chainswords to make them similarly more attractive.

 

Can Apothecaries join this squad?

 

I agree; it was only a tentative thought reducing options for the sergeant I initially wasn't sure in his role.

 

I like this squad.

 

It means a Squad has a lot to look at; 2 Tactical Squads are cheaper (110pts cheaper, 40pts cheaper with Rhino), but if you want a horde, 210pts vs 250pts is better in the favour of the "Peons", considering the units worth is holding objectives.

 

Arguably, the 20 Man Tac Squad gets Fury, WS and BS 3, and a Bolter/BP/CCW; which is worth maybe 80pts, but the units role is to score, a bit like giving an Assault Squad Sergeant a free Lascannon; they won't be used, so might as well be free. 40pt upgrade for the above is worth it.

 

My biggest complaint with Tactical Blobs is how expensive they are for how little they do.

 

185pts vs 210 is a much more apt comparison cost.

 

Is the legion noted as having especially large numbers? I can't remember the legions alliances, but I hope that they have Sworn Brothers with Imperial Army, for the same purpose.

[simison]

I meant as in access to having both BP, CCW and a bolter on the same model.

Can Apothecaries join this squad?

 

I agree; it was only a tentative thought reducing options for the sergeant I initially wasn't sure in his role.

 

I like this squad.

 

My biggest complaint with Tactical Blobs is how expensive they are for how little they do.

 

185pts vs 210 is a much more apt comparison cost.

 

Is the legion noted as having especially large numbers? I can't remember the legions alliances, but I hope that they have Sworn Brothers with Imperial Army, for the same purpose.

 

Wait, that can happen with this current arrangement? Well, that's no good. I want them to have to choose between gunman (bolter/bp), balanced (chainsword/bp), or melee (chainx2). I don't want them to have access to all three weapons at one point. How do I fix that?

 

Apothecaries should be able to join, from a fluff point-of-view. What was the thought behind this question?

 

I'm glad you like this squad. 

 

They are actually only Fellow Warriors with the Imperial Army, if not outright Distrusted. (Too creepy) They are actually the smallest legion, BotL-wise. (Canon-wise, the Thousand Sons are fewer.) The idea is that Jade is trying to grow his legion quickly. Using his medical know-how, he's managing to increase geneseed adoption efficiency, but he is skimping on training and trading that for sink-or-swim combat experience to temper his growing legion.

Edited November 3, 2015 by simison

[Grifftofer]

Actually the Grave Stalkers number less than you. We're only at about 10,000 strong due to the difficulty of K'awil's Pariah gene adapting to new initiates.

[simison]

Posers!

[MikhalLeNoir]

Good that the Godslayers and Wardens of Light can produce pariahs more safely and in higher numbers. Although getting Gwals Gift in Canonverse kinda hurts ;)

[simison]

[Masters of Striking Air]                                                                      ??? points

(Warriors of Peace Only)

                                                   WS      BS      S      T      W      I      A      LD      Sv

Air Master                                     4        5        4      4       1      4      1       9        3+

 

Unit Composition

• 5 Air Masters

Unit Type

• Jetpack Infantry 

Wargear

• Power Armor
• Bolt Pistol
• Bolt Pistol 
• Jetpack
• Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules

• Legiones Astartes (Warriors of Peace)
• Split Fire
• Wind Step

 

Wind Step: If an Air Master moves at all during the Movement or Assault phase, the unit gains Shrouded until their next Movement Phase.

 

[There's an early set-up for the gun kata unit]

[Demus Ragnok]

Actually the Grave Stalkers number less than you. We're only at about 10,000 strong due to the difficulty of K'awil's Pariah gene adapting to new initiates.

And they launched an assault against the IRON BEARS!

[MikhalLeNoir]

Ooooooohhhh. I like the Airmasters. Do they habe access to different weapons? Or maybr the master of the masters? A plasma and melter or volkite? Or can they be teamed up with a moritat?

[simison]

Moritat, I don't know. It's the one page my PDF is missing, oddly enough.

 

But they will have the ability to replace their bolt pistols with any kind of standard pistol in the marine armoury.

[MikhalLeNoir]

You should rename split fire in Gun Kata just for the rule of cool ;)

[simison]

You should rename split fire in Gun Kata just for the rule of cool http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif

 

Hmmmm, actually, you've given me a thought. Originally, I wanted every Air Master to be able to fire at a different target (like how the Long Fangs used to be able to), but thought one special rule and Split Fire would be pushing it. 

 

But now, I'm thinking about bringing it back under the 'Gun Kata' rule.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Maybe you can combine it all in one rule

[Hesh Kadesh]

If the Sergeant is present, each Airmaster in the unit may take an LD test. If passed, the unit may not assault, but the model can shoot at a different target than the Sergeant. If failed, the model must shoot at the same unit as the Sergeant. Attached characters must shoot at the same target as the Sergeant unless they have the Split Fire special rule.

 

Sergeant doesn't really need a special statline, just 'Character' unit type and 'Gun kata' special rule.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Grifftofer]

                                           

Wind Step: If an Air Master moves at all during the Movement or Assault phase, the unit gains Shrouded until their next Movement Phase.

:O If you steal any more ideas from the Grave Stalkers I'll rename your guys the Alpha Legion of the BotL :P That rule is basically the same as my Spectre armour

 

 

 

Actually the Grave Stalkers number less than you. We're only at about 10,000 strong due to the difficulty of K'awil's Pariah gene adapting to new initiates.

And they launched an assault against the IRON BEARS!

 

I know, we're just that bad ass :)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Seems that the pariah gene has the side effect of mincing with the grey matter as well!

[simison]

Dang it, Grifft, stop stealing all of the good ideas!

 

Hesh, I love the assault penalty you've suggested. It fits perfectly with what the unit is supposed to be. But do we really need to have a LD test or a SGT? 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Doesn't have to. I could have sworn that Split Fire has a Ld test tied to it, while the only unit with Split Fire that I can recall is the Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad, and the only local IW player never really split fires his rocket vomits (and no Alpha Legion player used Coils of the Hydra after the initial interest), so we never see it in action, but checking shows me that there is none.

 

I tied the rule to the Sergeant for that matter (as it can put a need for Precision Shots, which is a badly underutilised mechanic; Look Out Sir basically nullifies it, and things like Vexilla or Nuncio's are of a much lower priority than just blowing up the squad anyway, so Precision Shots are one of those "nice things". I have similar tied Morro's ability to grant Hit and Run to his army by making it only affect Drowned Characters; so that someone who wants to snipe (by Precision Shot or Barrage) can limit some units effectiveness.

 

I don't know if that makes the rule slightly more complicated, but it can allow better players to take advantage if they really want. Alternatively, if failed, the unit gains the Split Fire special rule for that turn. It's more limited, but a similar effect, and they can still charge. 

 

Slight rewrite; If a sergeant was taken, any special name? Cloudwalker? I'm thinking Monkey King/Goku reference here?

 

Gun Kata (Sergeant Only); 

Any unit containing at least one model with this rule may take a Leadership Test before nominating a unit to shoot. If this test is passed all models in the unit lose the Split Fire special rule, and all the Airmasters in the unit may resolve their shooting attacks against different units; this works like the Split Fire special rule in all regards other than it not being limited to a single model. However, a unit doing so may not make any declare any charges in the next assault phase, and any attached characters must shoot the same target as the [Cloudwalker/Sergeant].

 

If you want to include the Moritat in that squad

 

[... and any attached characters (exluding Moritat Consuls) must shoot the same...]

 

Feel free (obviously) to edit and chop it up as you wish. Removing Split Fire on a passed test has no effect unless characters are attached; if they are attached they're if they have the Split Fire rule so can still potentially fire at another target as well. I'm imagining a unit of these Deep Striking with a Jump Pack Siege Breaker with a pair of Plasma Pistols and 5 with Inferno Pistols dropping in. Dual Archaeotech Pistols are brilliant fun as well, although possibly Cloudwalker/Sergeant only? I've playtested my Corvo a couple of times, and it gets to the stage where even if he's not using his Chainfire, your opponent just sighing and removing 2 models.

 

Don't know if you want to give them a Suspensor-web Heavy Weapon, or does that spoil your image?

[simison]

Split Fire (and Counter-attack) used to require an LD test back in 6th, but GW did away with the LD test upon 7th. So, I can see where the confusion comes in. 

 

I'm still against a Sergeant-character, regardless. 

 

As for alternate pistol set-ups, I was thinking: plasma, volkite, inferno, and I feel like I'm missing one. Archeotech pistols, I feel, should be rare enough that only leaders should be able to have them. 

 

And, as hilarious as it might be to imagine a marine doing somersaults in the air while blasting away with a heavy bolter, it really doesn't fit the intent of the unit.