Teetengee Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think buried soul is derogatory, any being who doesn't feel at least hints of guilt when leading armed forces of the legions scope and size is terrifying. To be honest, I imagine that Guilliman may very well be talking about not just Vulcan but himself when he uses those words. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4148906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor'Vesh Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 You might be right Teentengee - too be honest I don't really understand what was meant by that phrase. It conjours images of a withdrawn, hidden character to me, who is strongly conflicted. My perception could be totally off though, and whether I like it or not it is certainly interesting that Vulkan was viewed that way by the Ultramarines. So as I mentioned earlier, I've been looking through the tarot stuff for ideas on Vulkan and his relationships. I'm kind of a fan of this stuff after the beautiful work of Athrawes, who used it as a starting point for Icarion and the second legion. Based on the relationships in the tarot I've split Vulkan's relationships into five groups (you might disagree with my classifications based on the tarot, but I gave it a try): Excellent Relationship - Rogal Dorn, Jaghatai Khârn and Ferrus Manus Good Relationship - Horus Lupercal, Alpharius, Fulgrim, Russ, II, XI OK Relationship - Sanguinius, Guiliman, Magnus, Corax Bad Relationship - Angron, Lion El'Jonson, Lorgar Attrocious Relationship - Konrad Curze, Perturabo, Mortarion So I think there are a few interesting things here. Perturabo - despite the similarity in their crafting skills, Perturabo is said to be disgusted by Vulkan - Perty does not like compassion. This is not surprising, but interesting given earlier comments. Good Relationship - This whole cagtegory is cool. He should get on pretty well with Russ, which I can imagine but haven't considered before The Hydra suggested it. Vulkan also could have got on well with both the missing primarchs. If this was the case, it COULD effect the way Vulkan is seen by his other brothers, or explain some of his inner conflict. He also seems to be OK Alpharius... though I suspect this relationship was never established in universe. We already know of his regard for Horus (pre Warmaster) from the black library,. Excellent Relationship - Manus is probably the one we'd expect based on the little backgroud we have. Though their outlook on humanity may be a little different, Vulkan and Ferrus do seem to mesh pretty well. I'm glad Dorn is in there, and I can see them having a good relationship - both stalwart figures, loyal, and strong commanders. The Khârn is surprising, but I like the idea. Based on Scars, we can see that Salamanders and White Scars could get along well, but we also know that the Khârn is a bit of an enigma, and not particularly close to anyone. This is a shame, as it might have been an interesting relationship for GW to develop between to lesser known primarchs. Thoughts? Do you think the tarot works well for Vulkan, or could help explain anything else about him, or his perception in the 30K universe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'd say the relationship with the Ravens would be excellent, considering their shared background in freeing humanity from oppression. I never got the idea Corax took offense if people thought his sneaky-sneaky stab-stab style Legion was weird/underhand, so even if Vulkan and the Salamanders didn't 'agree' with it, I doubt Corax would let it bother him and Vulkan would be diplomatic enough to not find issue. If anything I would have thought the compassionate pragmatism of the Salamanders would embrace working with the Raven Guard, who'd probably open up new ways of preserving human life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I alway got the opinion that the reason we know little about Vulcan and his relationships is because he cares little about them I see Vulcan as being very live and let live and as long as you're not doing something really wrong ... looking at you Kurze. that Vulcan would be like "cool bro whatever that's just not how we roll where I'm from" I Vulcan to me is the one primarch who does not feel his way is the correct and only way to live so he never has to team up with or against other primarch except in extreme circumstances. he is like the wise janitor of the 30k verse and just wants to be allowed to live his own small part of the dream and hopes every one else can too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Pre heresy I imagine that the Salamander and the Raven Guard would have a good relationship. The only stumbling block for might be Corax being a bit of an isolationist, the twoay nptnhave spent time to develop a true friendship. Post Massacre i'd imagine that the bond between these 2 Legions would strengthen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor'Vesh Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yeah - you are pretty in line with the tarot predictions there though hydra. The legions would get on fine, and their fighting styles, which opposites, are actually quite complementary. The tarot suggests that while Vulkan and Corax are similarly opposites, and complement each ther in interesting ways, they struggle to form a personal relationship. Seems pretty reasonable, and I'd agree with everyone that there wasn't any tension there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm glad the tourtued soul thing was cleared up, there are a few I would consider tourtued, Curze, Lorgar, Angron, but I didnt see Vulken as one. I can see some conflict in his nature like I said in previous posts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Why would he not like the Lion? Just curious. If it's because their tarot signs are opposing, what in-universe reason do you think ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Not sure, the Lion is a bit of an enigma, and we don't have any info from FW to help develop his character. Perhaps like Corax the Lion was a bit of isonalist but unlike Corax he may have had an air of distrust around him that made it hard for Vulken to relate to. Also, his Legion being the first could be a great sence of prode, and maybe he looked down on a young Legions, or was jealous of the Salamanders as they lne of the three special Legions. Also maybe Vulkens monstrous appearence was to alien for Lion, a famed killer of beasts. This all my speculation though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4149802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Its been heavily suggest that the lions brothers consider him a bit of a dick with a superiority complex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4152315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Its been heavily suggest that the lions brothers consider him a bit of a dick with a superiority complex Heavily suggested? Source? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4152323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Can't remember which book exactly but it was a off hand about how he keep reminding ppl of the "1st" title. Might be in un remembered empire Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4153344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Not sure, the Lion is a bit of an enigma, and we don't have any info from FW to help develop his character. Perhaps like Corax the Lion was a bit of isonalist but unlike Corax he may have had an air of distrust around him that made it hard for Vulken to relate to. Also, his Legion being the first could be a great sence of prode, and maybe he looked down on a young Legions, or was jealous of the Salamanders as they lne of the three special Legions. Also maybe Vulkens monstrous appearence was to alien for Lion, a famed killer of beasts. This all my speculation though. Yeah, we know the Lion likes his secrets, and I don't think that Vulkan could bring himself to trust him much because of that. Also, as you say, the Lion pretty much likes to be alone, and so wouldn't really want to socialise with any of his brothers (at first in any case) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4154579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fission Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 About the quote of Guilliman avout Vulkan in Know no fear , I had ask Nick Kyme of what he think about it . Guilliman is comparing all the primarchs in this part of the books , to explain why he choose the Dauntless few , the ones he can win a war with in ANY circumstances . So for Guilliman , Vulkan think too much during a conflict to be efficient in ANY corcumstances . I am not convinced by the tarot stuff : in Promethean Sun Vulkan and Mortarion are not buddies but are not in a bad relationship . In the Forgeworld book it seems that the good opinions about the sallies are most from the auxilias they work with . See the difference with the iron hands in Promethean Sun and Iron Feat . Perturabo in Angel Extetminatus seem to have a good opinion in the past about a craftsman as Vulkan . My general opinion about the view of the other legion on the Sallies is that tthey are well viewed because the dont fight to gain glory and they can be reliable under certain circustances . But not seen as an elite or top five legion . Which I appreciate because I am fed up with the eternal debate Guilliman/Horus/Lion have the greater number of victory Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312344-salamanders-in-universe-perception/page/2/#findComment-4252822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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