IG motivation and model diversity

[Frater Cornelius]

I have encountered a problem with IG and I want to ask you guys for advice.

 

You see, the IG model diversity, or lack there of, is really hindering my full enjoyment of the army. Compare them to the other army I am eying, Necrons, they just pale in comparison. There I have large beasts, small beasts, all manner of different infantry and endless conversion possibilities.

 

Now, I prefer IG on the table for various reasons, but in the end, it is just a collection of dudes and tanks. Without extensive conversions, you are basically playing with two to three models. The Guardsman, the Chimera chassis and sometimes the Leman Russ chassis. I am trying my best to get around it by doing heavy conversions, but it is not enough to escape the lure of xenos books. I am trying to make them like the Empire, but IG simply lacks diverse units. Just a bunch of dudes.

 

Maybe someone got some decent advice to get me back on track :)

[Teetengee]

What about mixing up Krieg, Scions, Vostroyan, Penal Legion, Steel Legion, Catachans, Cadians, and abhumans?

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, it is not so much the individual models. The problem is more that it is an entire army of same-sized humans and very similar tanks.

They do not have hounds, Jetbikes, giant beasts or war or anything exotic. Just a big amount of regular dudes and the occasional larger dude if you include bullgryns. There is nothing that breaks the monotony. Yeah, monotony is definitely the right word here.

 

Also, consider that most of my armies are both fluffy and performance oriented, so including large amount of Rough Riders or something like that is out of the question. This is partly what causes it, but the general selection of different-looking units isn't that great to begin with compared to more exotic factions like Necrons.

[our_baz]

Similar to advice to teetengee. I've mixed my standard grunts by using two sets of models. Cadians represent what I call "battle dress" and I use mordian iron guard for what I call "ceremonial dress". Both use exactly the same colour scheme. (Would add photo but on my phone, example in my gallery). I have two types of veterans, the first are a kit bashed / converted Cadian models with scion bits to represent company vets (prob will similar colour scheme to rank and file but with something to distinguish them). Then I have my apex vets my scions, how are painted differently save a spot colour to tie them in. I also have bullgryns and ogryns again I have painted these similar to rank and file. You have specialist characters you can go to town on paint scheme wise (psyker, astropath, officer of the fleet etc). Then to make my tanks stand out (poor choice of words) I've painted them totally different to the grunts, using a urban dazzle camo pattern. Personally I have less need to motivate myself to paint guard than anything else due to the variety.

(Sorry about war and peace above)

[Frater Cornelius]

I am doing something similar. My Guardsmen are a mix between musketeers, pikemen and sword/buckler with their guns holstered. My Vets look far more ceremonial and have better armour. Every single character is different and all are fabulous fantasy models, which costed me twice as much as IG would have costed.

 

The monotony mostly comes from the models have a similar silhouette (same size, same humanoid shape, same tank chassis). The more the silhouettes differ, the more appealing it becomes for me (case in point, Necrons with Wraiths, Scarabs, Warriors, Jetbikes and so forth).

 

So if the silhouette issue can be solved with the dudes and tanks, were good. But this will need to be something creative, as IG seems to be designed to look spammy.

[Teetengee]

um, it is a horde army, of course it will look spammy, it is spammy

that being said, why not try a bunch of different abhumans that are all of slightly different heights? (make sure to use lots of different sources such as beastmen and squats, and also to iclude some ratlings and ogryns)

[SW1]

What you want from the army isn't what it offers. Guard are humans in space. We all roughly look the same even when dressed up in different clothes we will still have the same proportions.

 

If you want variety then you will need to use the full book. From ratlings to Ogryns to rough riders. What sparks my interest is why don't you wan to use rough riders if your going for the empire feel? That would suit the asthetics and tie your army together fluff wise if they are coming from a more backwater style world. Don't like the horses? Try mounting on lizards (cold ones from the lizard men), birds (there's a few 3rd party ones out there) or even badgers (take a look at Inso's blog) or the demigryphs (from the empire range). A lot of the tanks share very similar looks but there's nothing stopping you changing things around. Plasticard can be used to convert up tanks just stretchin one a few mm can really change the look and there's a whole load of RL tank kits you could also use instead. Maybe pushing it a bit but the empire Steam tank might even work if you modernise it a lot.

 

It's all down to how much you want to put in to get the end result. If you want the army to look a certain way you need to look at the big question ... Do you want it enough to make it worth the effort? If you do then you will find a way.

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Teetengee - That is a solid idea. I will look into the Fantasy range and see if I can find some solid models to mix amongst the dudes. Something gothic... I am considering to have redeemed werewolves carry my heavy weapons in the Platoon. Or mount them on a beast of burden, Krootox style.

 

Any idea on how to possibly mix hunting dogs into there? Maybe of 27 dudes have three beasts of burden carry the Heavy weapons, have eight musketeers, six pikemen with holstered muskets, five swore/buckler guys with holstered muskets and five hunting dogs which represent one wound each. Or use hunting dogs to represent the wounds of multiwound models like my Inquisitors.

 

That is shaping up to be quite good. Keep the coming ;)

[Grotsmasha]

The Elysians have alternate vehicles, I'm not sure if Rough Riders are still a thing, and then you have abhumans, and I'm not just talking Ratlings and Ogryns. Technically Beastmen exist in 40k as abhumans, and present a cool modelling opportunity for some unique units/conversions.

 

Then there's the counts-as option. Buy and collect necrons, play Guard. Find a guard unit with a necron model of comparable size/shape and counts-as. For example a Destoyer off of a flight stand could represent a heavy weapons team with some moment modelling opportunities for the alternate weapons. Deathmarks for snipers, you get the drift.

 

As long as your upfront about which unit is which, most casual gamers shouldn't have too big offan issue.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Lucien Eilam]

I think this is the first time I've heard Necrons described as a benchmark for diversity. I have them pegged just behind Grey Knights in the "seen one miniature, seen 99% of every army ever made" stakes.

 

AM have loads more options than Guardsmen, Chimeras and Leman Russes. That's only 2/3 of the tank chassis in the codex for one thing. What about Sentinels, and all the things you could convert to count-as Sentinels? Rough Riders that you could model as anything from traditional cavalry to bikers to weird xenos mounts? The enormous array of vehicles and gun carriages available from Forge World? Even sticking with infantry, you could make Conscripts look radically different from Guardsmen, and Veterans, and Psykers, and abhumans, and Scions, etc.

[Teetengee]

my friend strapped a lascannon howda to a dragon for a vendetta, also a similar conversion for a tank using the ankylosaur lizardman thing.

[Quneitra]

I never thought I'd ever hear that the Guard lacks diversity. I don't believe that there's really any army that can match us in how diverse we can be, considering that the Guard is a hodgepodge force of trillions of unique worlds. The Scintillians? 17th/18th century European armies IN SPACE. Armageddon Steel Legion? WW2 Wehrmacht. Catachans? Vietnam Americans. If you can grab the bits or use green stuff and plasticard well, the look of your Guardsmen are entirely up to your choice. You can have Roman Empire-esque Guardsmen, Ottomans IN SPACE, China, etc., just whatever takes your fancy. For example, I'm doing a force with looks inspired by the Republican Guard forces of Syria and Iraq, so I'm attaching berets instead of regular helmets and mixing up bitz.

The vehicles aren't limited, either. With said trillions of worlds out there, sure, a substantial portion of vehicles operated by the Guard are based off of the Russ or Chimera to simplify logistics, but plenty of vehicles out there exist as well. One regiment might operate vehicles produced on their home world that are functionally similar to the Russ/Chimera/Valkyrie/etc. but look significantly different. I've considered using a SA-2 model as a counts-as Deathstrike, for example (though it seems there aren't any cheap ones available...).

And on this note about "similar models", if you think we have it bad, the Tau have all of their land vehicles based on the Devilfish chassis!

[Shamansky]

There's slight problem with vehicle models. Their size is kind of important. Many tournaments ban vehicles with non-standart size, becuse it can be an advantage in some ways: low profile, longer barrel etc. 

 

And i'm a little surprised to see such problem as a lack of diversity in an army of trillions. They are not fancy-pants space marines to be individuals. They are often considered as a filler for their armor and holder for their guns. Their life is cheaper for the Imperium than the equipment they're given. So what diversity are you looking for? Monstrous creatures? Take sentinels and be happy that your guys do not have to walk all their way to death. But do not understand me wrong. I love this army. And i try to make every guardsman looking slightly different. They are my guys. They all are different to me. Catachan battle force box really helps with that.

Once i bought a 5-guardsmen box from GW, i was shocked. The only thing i had to do was to put a gun and a base to a body. I'll never do it again.

[M@verik115]

I also believe imperial guard is the most diverse army out there. You can do anything really. Yes it is pretty much guys and tanks, but each guy and tank can be quite different. Just how many variants are based on the chimera chassis? Dozens at least... the same with the leman russ chassis as well. The same is echoed by actual military forces. You want most of your vehicles to have a lot in common. It makes supplying, repairing and upkeep so much easier than having 10 vastly different tanks.

I have tried virtually every army out there except for eldar and dark eldar and I found IG the most flexible in terms of different lists you can make, the most fun and the most uniform although unique.

On the other hand I found necrons the most boring and repetitive. I sold the army within 3 months.  

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, let me rephrase it. My IG army lacks variety in its silhouettes.

I do not see vehicles as a massive issue. My two Commanding Chimeras will be fused with Tauroxes to look like tracked APCs and my LR get the steamtank treatment. My issue was infantry but some comments above inspired me.

 

Besides, everyone has their own taste. One may like what others see as a problem. For me it is less about customizing each guy like most of you, but instead about different sizes and silhouettes.

Do not blame me for requiring something rather specific. If I wouldn't love IG, I wouldn't make an effort and ask for advice :P

[M@verik115]

Throw in some sisters of battle. Your guardsmen will respect you more as a superior commanding officer for throwing in some of those silhouettes ;) 

[Truesight]

 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Warhammer-40-000?N=102708+4294966036&Nu=product.repositoryId&searchTerm=&sorting=phl&categoryId=cat2140034

There are so many more vehicles than Russ' and Chimeras. Guard are the envy of other armies with the amount of support we get.  How about some cool looking aircraft, like the Marauder or Avenger?  Or some artillery pieces with defence lines.  A Hades Breaching drill with engineers?  I want a Praetor at some point, that thing just oozes cool.  Death Riders.

The problem with Imperial Guard is trying to paint all your men before your enthusiasm gets you more models than you can handle.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I chuckled at Necrons being used as an example of diversity, if only because locally they're known as that army which is tedious to collect and easy to paint. Personally I mix Tau bitz into mine in varying styles and degrees, and buy third party models to represent some units, so I get a decent variety. There's no less variety in the Guard than there is in the Space Marine Codex.

 

Forge World's selection is especially diverse, and as others have said you can do wonders with counts-as.

[M@verik115]

 

The problem with Imperial Guard is trying to paint all your men before your enthusiasm gets you more models than you can handle.

 

 

 

HAHAHAHAHA that is too true. If I actually used every IG model I have they would cover half of the board. And that is not exaggeration lol. 

[Frater Cornelius]

@ CoffeeGrunt - My Crons are 100% based on Vampire Count minis. I am not as one dimensional as you think :P

 

As for FW, it is frowned at around here and downright illegal at most tournaments. I try to make due with the regular book. Counts as is an option though ;)

[M@verik115]

As for FW, it is frowned at around here and downright illegal at most tournaments. I try to make due with the regular book. Counts as is an option though

You may need to educate the people around you. FW is not nearly as powerful as people think and in a lot of instances weaker than codex specific entries.

I can understand banning them for tournament play, but for friendly games I urge you to try them out. They will really add a lot of flavour to your games.

[Frater Cornelius]

It isn't. In most cases, I consider FW weaker than many regular variants or right on point. But hey, that are German TOs for you. Ban first, think later. Still, that is not the topic right now.

[CyderPirate]

Ogryn and Rough Riders should break up the monotony and fit into your theme reasonably well, and both can be pretty effective against the right targets and with a bit of practice. 

I know its just more dudes, but a bit of variety with your heavy weapon teams can provide some different silhouettes. Curious Constructs/Zinge do a load of battlefield artillery models which should give you some more options.

 

How about customising the tanks, or using similar models from different ranges? Puppetswar do some cool tanks that could count as Hydras, Manticores or Wyverns, Secret Weapon Miniatures has a Chimera/Hellhound alternative, or there's this guy as an alternative to the standard russ.

 

Another option is to add some stowage etc and customise the tanks a wee bit. If one's piled high with your foot-sloggers' junk, and another has a flag or a comms-system, it can make them all stand out a bit more.

[WarriorFish]

Guard is second only to the Inquisition in diversity, you can do all sorts. Vets looking completely different? Done. Even completely different Platoons? Easy!

 

The trick is consistency, whether external or internal. A squad should have models that are clearly part of the same unit, this may extend to the other similar units or not. If you have lots of variety then you must start considering the overarching army appearance, otherwise it may start to look like you found a bunch of models and shoved them on the table and called it an army. Maybe this is from a shared palette, or a well executed campaign badge/symbol scheme. For Guard there are other ways to add conformity, for example each PCS could have a banner to tie all the units together.

 

An army is much more than the models and rules, it's also a work of art :)

[CoffeeGrunt]

The thing I love about the IG is that you can do anything from space-age paratroopers to Mad Max style mounted post-apocalyptic regiments. You could add Squats as our talented comrades have, or Ratmen as I've seen from a local player. Heck, there was a guy who had armies of Gretchin as Guard, all converted up. You could have robots or anything else, Heavy Weapons Teams could be mobile gun platforms of some description.

 

You can have Conscripts be mutated Ratmen being pushed into battle to die for the sin of being such perverse stains on the galaxy, while Cadians stand by supported by another Conscript squad of Hive Gangers pressed into service with cheap Autoguns. Ultimately you're still going to have roughly human-sized models across your army, but there are entire game systems where that's all you get. The strength of GW's games has always been in the Do What You Want appeal, (personally, at least.)