REF - Reference Information

[simison]

  On 9/10/2016 at 2:47 PM, MikhalLeNoir said:

And maximum? Atm I have 1 wargear- 4 units and 2 chars. If the tonfas are added I have 2 - 4 - 2. Too much?

 

Or do we keep pur system of 1-2-3 plus 3 free alots?

 

I haven't changed anything. All I did was repost this info from the Grave Stalker thread so it doesn't get lost. We are still on the 1-2-3 slot system with 3 free slots.

[MikhalLeNoir]

This info was missing and created confusion in my mind.

[~Drakzilla~]

I'd say we need to be balanced with each other, but also with the canonverse. Otherwise we won't really be able to have friendly games with other people...

[MikhalLeNoir]

  On 9/10/2016 at 3:44 PM, drakzilla said:

I'd say we need to be balanced with each other, but also with the canonverse. Otherwise we won't really be able to have friendly games with other people...

And I believe we are most of the time battling against friendly canonverse legions

[Kelborn]

Got 2 wargears - 4 units - 3 characters

 

Think that should be enough. Primarchs do count as a char slot, right?

[Grifftofer]

  On 9/10/2016 at 3:46 PM, Kelborn said:

Got 2 wargears - 4 units - 3 characters

 

Think that should be enough. Primarchs do count as a char slot, right?

Correct. We Get 1 Primarch, 1 Relic & 2 RoWs in addition to the 9 slots.

[Kelborn]

Oh, ok. Thought that it was primarch + 2 chars

 

Even better than :)

[Chief Captain Redd]

Well as it sits right now none of us go over nine, which while slightly above average but isn't terrible or unheard of. And from a looking forward point of view FW said legions will be getting more over time. So I think as it stands we're okay for now.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Yeah....when I think of the 6 row for the darkangels....if they make a lot more i will have problems coming up with new things^^

[Demus Ragnok]

  On 9/10/2016 at 6:31 PM, MikhalLeNoir said:

Yeah....when I think of the 6 row for the darkangels....if they make a lot more i will have problems coming up with new things^^

I keep seeing this. Has this actually been confirmed by anyone at FW?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Not sure where I read it but it was said that every dark angels wing will get their own rite of war amd thst the other legions will get the same treatment.

 

Edit: Okay, not sure but I MIGHT HAVE READ IT IN THE AGE OF DARKNESS BOARD

[Raktra]

  On 9/10/2016 at 5:50 PM, Chief Captain Redd said:

Well as it sits right now none of us go over nine, which while slightly above average but isn't terrible or unheard of. And from a looking forward point of view FW said legions will be getting more over time. So I think as it stands we're okay for now.

I might have gone over, but I'm losing out on two consuls and at least one unit, so I'm kinda balanced out. R.E the wargear numbers, wouldn't the mean shift with the book 6 stuff? DA have about six items alone after all.

[bluntblade]

  On 9/10/2016 at 8:32 PM, MikhalLeNoir said:

Not sure where I read it but it was said that every dark angels wing will get their own rite of war amd thst the other legions will get the same treatment.

Edit: Okay, not sure but I MIGHT HAVE READ IT IN THE AGE OF DARKNESS BOARD

Seems to be speculation,so far

[Kelborn]

Just a little update for the lists:

 

Andezo takes Coch'ises place as being the 14th to be found

 

Legionsize 130.000 Astartes

 

Size at the beginning of the Insurrection: 120.000 loyalists, 10.000 traitor (Bloodlords)

Size at the end of the Insurrection:

• about 20-30.000 traitors scattered into several renegade warbands (greatest bunch is led by Inzinduna Shaka), about 5-10.000 loyalists (led by Inzinduna Thoruk)
• Legion ceases to exist as the loyalists hide themselves for a couple of years, fearing consequences because of the Legions betrayal, reemerge as a blackshield force known as Storm Blades and the traitors abandon their heritage, choosing their own paths

[simison]

Updated all except the state of the end Insurrection for the Predators.

[MikhalLeNoir]

By the way. On the legiim size is a error. Who or what is the jadelegio.? And you forgot the warriors of peace^^

[Doctor Perils]

  On 9/22/2016 at 4:08 PM, MikhalLeNoir said:

By the way. On the legiim size is a error. Who or what is the jadelegio.? And you forgot the warriors of peace^^

Who's the warrios of peace's primarch...

(this might be irony, my brain is starting to crack...)

[Sigismund229]

The Jade General

[Doctor Perils]

  On 9/23/2016 at 9:42 AM, Sigismund229 said:

The Jade General

Yes, I know, Mikhal was just saying that he didn't know what the "jade legion" was, and that they'd forgotten the warriors of peace. Only, they are one and the same no?

 

As I said, my brain is currently breaking...

[Sigismund229]

  On 9/23/2016 at 10:09 AM, Lord Thørn said:

 

  On 9/23/2016 at 9:42 AM, Sigismund229 said:

The Jade General

Yes, I know, Mikhal was just saying that he didn't know what the "jade legion" was, and that they'd forgotten the warriors of peace. Only, they are one and the same no?

 

As I said, my brain is currently breaking...

 

The Warriors of Peace are indeed the Jade General's legion

[MikhalLeNoir]

Oh c'mon guys. Of course that was irony. Hence the naming of both, jade legion and warriors of peace to underline it.

[simison]

For future reference:

 

Word Count of Exemplary Battles chapter by Legion:

Grave Stalkers: 3,300 words

Iron Bears: 2,800 words

Godslayers: 3,500 words

Scions Hospitalier: 2,600 words

Drowned: 3,600 words

[simison]

Following up on my legion growth test, I'm pouring my thoughts into creating a system to calculate geneseed stability and adaptability.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The ideal stability rate is 100%. This means every time geneseed is implanted, it takes. This doesn't happen. Standard stability is closer to 70%. In addition to standard issues in of themselves, there's a penalty for having any inclination toward either psyker or pariah natures. 

 

Example: Halcyon Warden geneseed is noted for its high stability. Placing it at 80%. However, it has a 20% chance of turning a mundane into a psyker which translates into a 10% penalty to stability, dropping overall stability to 70%. 

 

The Grave Stalkers' geneseed has a 100% chance of creating a pariah. Thus, dropping their stability rate by 50% from 70% to 20%. Additionally, GS geneseed has its own complications, further reducing them to 10%. 

 

All of this affects the Alpha intake, which begins with a pool of 5,000 aspirants. Multiply this by geneseed stability to figure out where your legion starts at. The Halcyon Wardens initial rate of 70% multiplied with 5,000 leads to a foundation of 3,500 marines. Whereas the Grave Stalkers have the painful multiplication of 5,000 times 10% for a small 500.

 

So, where does everyone start at? 

 

Initial Geneseed Stability & Alpha Intake

 

I: 65%/3,250 marines

II:

III: 50%/2,500 marines

IV: 70%/3,500 marines

V: 70%/ 3,500 marines

VI: 90%/2250 marines (Halved due to slower geneseed maturation)

VII: 70%/3,500 marines

VIII: 60%/ 3,000 marines

IX: 40%/2,000 marines

X: 80%/4,000 marines

XI:

XII: 60%/3,000 marines

XIII: 60%/3,000 marines

XIV: 60%/3,000 marines

XV: 10%/ 500 marines

XVI: 70%/3,500 marines (reduced to 500 marines after Neptune)

XVII: 45%/2,250 marines

XVIII: 40%/2,000 marines

XIX: 90%/4,500 marines

XX: 70%/3,500 marines

 

~~~

 

And because I can't stop. Other factors affecting legion growth: recruitment base and combat doctrine. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Recruitment base is denoted by: wide, balanced, narrow. Note, wide can mean a stellar empire or simply press-ganging every poor soul the legion comes across (a la World Eaters). Narrow can mean recruiting from a single planet for the entire legion.

 

[Note, most Legions are "Narrow" when it comes to Recruitment since everyone is just using Terran tithe rights at this stage.]

 

Combat Doctrine in this case is defined as: aggressive, balanced, defensive. This is to be understood in the context of willingness to sacrifice life for victory. The Void Eagles obviously don't care about collateral damage, while the Halcyon Wardens are extremely aware of the human cost.

 

Wide & Defensive each add positive 100 marine per year (mpy) modifier

Narrow & Aggressive each subtract 100 mpy.  

 

Note: if your Legion isn't affected by your Primarch's Discovery, feel free to skip this stage.

 

Pre-Primarch Marines Per Year, Combat Doctrine and Recruitment Base

 

I: 550 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

II:

III: 300 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

IV: 600 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

V: 500 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

VI: 350 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

VII: 700 mpy/Narrow & Defensive

VIII: 400 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

IX: 300 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

X: 700 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

XI:

XII: 400 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

XIII: 500 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

XIV: 600 mpy/Narrow & Defensive

XV: 100 mpy/Narrow & Defensive

XVI: 600 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

XVII: 350 mpy/Narrow & Balanced

XVIII: 200 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

XIX: 700 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

XX: 500 mpy/Narrow & Aggressive

 

~~~

 

Primarchs can have a tremendous impact on a legion. Here is a section for those willing to calculate the math. Discovery dates are on the first page of the General Discussion thread. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

A Primarch found halves the mundane penalty rate. So, the HW mundane penalty of 20% is divided in half, bringing their overall rate back up to 80%. 

 

Meanwhile the GS only enjoy a boost of 5%, bringing them up to 15%.

 

This all leads to hard numbers for a general idea of growth and legion size by Primarch discovery.

Standard legion growth is 700 marines per year at 70% geneseed stability.

Each difference of 10% translates into 100 marine difference per year. 

 

Additional rating for recruitment base: 'Empire', increases mpy by 200.

 

Improved geneseed stability, Primarch Reforms and numbers at Primarch Discovery

 

I: 70%/Empire & Balanced/6,000 marines

II:

III: 75%/Empire & Aggressive/28,900 marines

IV: 85%/Wide & Aggressive/83,300 marines

V: 80%/Empire & Defensive/20,900 marines

VI: 95%/Empire & Aggressive/21,500 marines

VII: 85%/Balanced & Aggressive/85,400 marines

VIII: 75%/Balanced & Aggressive/43,000 marines

IX: 80%/Wide & Defensive/21,500 marines

X: 90%/Empire & Balanced/48,100 marines

XI: 80%/Narrow & Balanced/19,400 marines

XII: 65%/Narrow & Defensive/49,800 marines

XIII: 75%/Narrow & Aggressive/54,000 marines

XIV: 80%/Narrow & Defensive/68,400 marines

XV: 15%/Narrow & Defensive/14,700 marines

XVI: 85%/Balanced & Balanced/56,900 marines

XVII: 80%/Narrow & Balanced/63,150 marines

XVIII: 80%/Narrow & Defensive/19,400 marines 

XIX: 95%/Balanced & Defensive/54,900 marines

XX: 85%/Narrow & Aggressive/57,000 marines

 

 

 

~~~~

 

This all leads to hard numbers for Post-Primarch growth and DoR legion size.

  Reveal hidden contents

Standard legion growth is 700 marines per year at 70% geneseed stability. Each difference of 10% translates into 100 marine difference per year. 

 

For number of years, subtract total Great Crusade length (231 years/031) from Primarch Discovery year. 

 

Example: Alexandros is found in 829. 1031- 829 = 202 years.

 

Once you have the number of marines from Primarch Discovery to DoR, add in the legion size upon Primarch Discovery. (AKA, the legion size right above.)

 

Final MPY & DoR Legion Size

 

I: 900 mpy/209,400 marines

II:

III: 850 mpy/150,450 marines

IV: 850 mpy/166,600 marines

V: 1,100 mpy/243,100 marines 

VI: 525 mpy/113,900 marines 

VII: 750 mpy/170,900 marines (Includes both Shepherds & Berserkers)

VIII: 650 mpy/128,150 marines 

IX: 1,100 mpy/197,500 marines

X: 900 mpy/199,300 marines 

XI:

XII: 600 mpy/118,200 marines

XIII: 550 mpy/124,950 marines

XIV: 800 mpy/ 166,000 marines

XV: 150 mpy/27,300 marines 

XVI: 850 mpy/173,350 marines

XVII: 700 mpy/103,050 marines 

XVIII: 800 mpy/134,600 marines

XIX: 1,150 mpy/237,750 marines

XX: 650 mpy/133,050 marines

 

Keep in mind, these are just base estimates and not final tallies. War is much more chaotic than this.

[simison]

Something about the Scions' heroes caught my eye and spurred a question.

 

Unique weapon = Unique name & additional special rules/changes besides adding 'Master-Crafted'

Officer Type = Praetor, Centurion, or Sergeant

 

Canon Unique Weapons & Officer Type 

SoH

Abaddon - No - Praetor

Loken - No - Praetor

Maloghurst - No - Centurion?

Marr - Yes - Praetor

WE

Darr - No - Centurion

Khârn - Yes - Praetor

Surlak - No (MC Needle Pistol) - Centurion

Haar - No (MC Fist) - Praetor

EC

Tarvitz - Yes - Praetor

Eidolon - No (MC Hammer) - Praetor

Rylanor - No - Dreadnought

DG

Morturg - No - Centurion

Rask - No - Praetor

Typhon - No (MC Scythe) - Praetor

IH

Orth - No - Centurion

Mor - No - Praetor

Shadrak - Yes - Praetor

NL

Llansahai - Yes - Centurion

Sevetar - No - Praetor

Ophion - No (unique armor) - Praetor

Sal

Dracos - No - Dreadnought

Rhy'tan - Yes - Praetor

Jurr - No (MC Maul/unique armour) - Centurion

WB

Erebus - No (MC Maul) - Praetor

Kor - No - Centurion

IW

Golg - No - Praetor

Vhalen - No - Praetor

Narik - No (MC pistol) - Centurion

AL

Dynat - No (Multiple CC weapons) - Praetor

Exodus - Yes - Centurion

Skorr - No (MC axe) - Centurion

IF

Sigismund - Yes - Praetor

Polux - No - Praetor

RG

Maun - No - Centurion

Nex - Yes - Centurioin

UM

Telemarchus - No - Dreadnought

Ventanus - No - Praetor

TS

Amon - No (MC Force Sword) - Praetor

Ahriman - No (MC Force Axe) - Praetor

SW

Fell-Hand - Yes - Praetor

Red-Blade - Yes - Praetor

 

 

 

BOTL Unique Weapons

HB

Raiden - Yes - Praetor

Empyon - Yes - Praetor

Goro - No - Centurion

IB

Redd - Yes - Praetor

GY

Volkov - Yes - Praetor

Alexander - No - Praetor

GS

Manik - No - Dreadnought

Xtaaby - No - Centurion

Ajaway - No - Praetor

DW

Boraeo - No - Praetor

Hennasohn - Yes - Praetor

SH

Inna - No - Centurion

Antonidas - Yes - Praetor

Metis - Yes - Praetor

 

 

We are one short from matching the number of unique weapons wielded in canon with half the number of the legions. I am concerned with this trend. In my brief survey, many officers instead have master-crafted versions of standard weapons. 

[Kelborn]

Adewale of the XXth Legion wields Umbralion, the Legion's specific artifact (if you want to call it like that). A spear with teleportation capabilities and expandable blades when hitting its prey (for the splatter effect)