The Grail Wardens: a Liber Astartes Group Project

[Doctor Perils]

So what does everyone think about the common ancestor and the space marine "order of the round table" ? It would be good to get everyone's opinion on the matter so we can start moving forward with the project ?

[Olis]

Personally, the overall concept isn't bad but I do think we need something more than just the fact that the Chapters involved all descended from a particular extinct predecessor. Let's take a look at the age of our respective Chapters:

 

• My own Red Sentinels are slated as being from the 6th founding, plus the Crimson Host will be a direct successor to them (the Sentinels) from the 14th founding.
• Arkangilos' Sanguinary Crusaders are presumably from the 2nd founding, given the wording of his article.
• Sir Perfluous and his own (unnamed) Chapter are currently undecided but from what's written so far they are not a 2nd founding chapter
• Cèsar de Quart's Crimson Knights are also from an unspecified founding.

 

So, as things stand the Sanguinary Crusaders are probably better suited as a brother Chapter to the now extinct one, while Sir Perfluous and Cèsar de Quart could theoretically be lumped in with the 6th founding to establish our three Chapters as scions from this extinct predecessor. That makes the Crimson Host the upstarts of the family being a couple of millennia younger than the next youngest group.

[Doctor Perils]

Personally, the overall concept isn't bad but I do think we need something more than just the fact that the Chapters involved all descended from a particular extinct predecessor. Let's take a look at the age of our respective Chapters:

 

• My own Red Sentinels are slated as being from the 6th founding, plus the Crimson Host will be a direct successor to them (the Sentinels) from the 14th founding.
• Arkangilos' Sanguinary Crusaders are presumably from the 2nd founding, given the wording of his article.
• Sir Perfluous and his own (unnamed) Chapter are currently undecided but from what's written so far they are not a 2nd founding chapter
• Cèsar de Quart's Crimson Knights are also from an unspecified founding.

 

So, as things stand the Sanguinary Crusaders are probably better suited as a brother Chapter to the now extinct one, while Sir Perfluous and Cèsar de Quart could theoretically be lumped in with the 6th founding to establish our three Chapters as scions from this extinct predecessor. That makes the Crimson Host the upstarts of the family being a couple of millennia younger than the next youngest group.

 

That is the kind of thing I was thinking, though I must admit I hadn't noticed that the Sanguinary Crusaders were that much older

I think your solution of having the Sanguinary Crusaders as a "brother" chapter to the original Grail Wardens would be logical, especially since Arkangilos seems to prefer his chapter to sort of stand apart, only contributing to the Grail Quest once in a while (which is perfectly fine we don't want copy-paste chapters after all...).

 

What would be your opinion on the organisation of the "space marine order" ?

[Kelborn]

Allthough I'm no part of project, I like your first idea most. There are so many chapters who don't know their heritage. Believing to be a successor of the wrong chapter sounds plausible for me.

 

If you need another warband as an antagonist, my Black Hands would like to help. ;)

Right now I don't have a reason for them to search for the grail but I would think about it.

[Olis]

What would be your opinion on the organisation of the "space marine order" ?

 

I think it should be treated like the Astartes Praeses or the Maelstrom Warders - there is an initial group of Chapters that were formed as part of a loose coalition (presumably of BA stock*) to protect a region of space. One particular relic, this eponymous Grail, happens to be lost when one member is destroyed. That member is our own predecessor Chapter (which has yet to be named afaik). The remaining Chapters vow to recover the relic, a task that not only takes millennia but is an elusive one. That Grail really, really got itself lost.

 

 

* - I just remembered, Cèsar de Quart's boys aren't from BA stock... Maybe they could be honorary members of the Grail Wardens?

[Doctor Perils]

 

What would be your opinion on the organisation of the "space marine order" ?

 

I think it should be treated like the Astartes Praeses or the Maelstrom Warders - there is an initial group of Chapters that were formed as part of a loose coalition (presumably of BA stock*) to protect a region of space. One particular relic, this eponymous Grail, happens to be lost when one member is destroyed. That member is our own predecessor Chapter (which has yet to be named afaik). The remaining Chapters vow to recover the relic, a task that not only takes millennia but is an elusive one. That Grail really, really got itself lost.

 

 

* - I just remembered, Cèsar de Quart's boys aren't from BA stock... Maybe they could be honorary members of the Grail Wardens?

 

 

Humm... a region of space a bit like this ? Seems possible, probably a better idea... would these chapters still have that common gene-ancestor ? Or who are the chapters from the coalition ? sorry, I'm a bit confused

 

Also, I proposed the idea that Cesar's chapter could have been presumed to be of blood angels stock, but it was later discovered that they weren't (much like the Soul Drinkers, only the other way round ) From then on they would be honourary members in a way, because they don't want to spill the beans over their battle-brothers' Flaw.

[Olis]

Humm... a region of space a bit like this ? Seems possible, probably a better idea... would these chapters still have that common gene-ancestor ? Or who are the chapters from the coalition ? sorry, I'm a bit confused

 

Nice find. I like the idea that the original Grail Wardens would be tasked with safe guarding the bordering areas near the Grail Abyss.

 

The way I think of it is thus: The original Wardens would be our unnamed predecessor, Arkangilos' Sanguinary Crusaders and perhaps a smattering of other Chapters. As time wears on, war and politics takes their toll, leaving the original grouping in tatters - possibly even leaving the Sanguinary Crusaders as the only original member left. But the Sanguinary Crusaders are not content with how things stand.

 

A short time prior to this project's intended events, the Sanguinary Crusaders set about re-contacting the sons of the brother Chapters they had lost. The most success (so far) would be from the BA line - the Red Sentinels, the Crimson Host, the Crimson Knights and one other are found to exist, leading to the Sanguinary Crusaders unofficially reforming the Grail Wardens with one specific task in mind - recover the Relic Grail lost millennia ago.  

 

 

 

This particular set up leaves the project open to other non-BA successor DIYs to join in and also explains why, although the Grail Wardens were supposed to be situated around the Grail Abyss, the current members are scattered across the galaxy. We can also accommodate, with not a lot of trouble, the majority of the Sanguinary Crusaders IA. The changes that could be made can really be just additions to what has been written already. 

 

Of course, such an idea can be refined, changed or nixed altogether if necessary. It's merely an explanation I've pulled out of my ass as I've gone along. ^_^

 

Also, I proposed the idea that Cesar's chapter could have been presumed to be of blood angels stock, but it was later discovered that they weren't (much like the Soul Drinkers, only the other way round  ) From then on they would be honourary members in a way, because they don't want to spill the beans over their battle-brothers' Flaw.

 

If Cèsar is cool with the idea, then sure, I don't see why not. The records might say they are the descendants of _____ Chapter but that is merely a clerical error and Cèsar's boys know better. We may have to come up with a reason why the AdMech hasn't spotted the error yet, though, from the centuries or millennia of gene-seed tithes... :P

[Doctor Perils]

 

Humm... a region of space a bit like this ? Seems possible, probably a better idea... would these chapters still have that common gene-ancestor ? Or who are the chapters from the coalition ? sorry, I'm a bit confused

 

Nice find. I like the idea that the original Grail Wardens would be tasked with safe guarding the bordering areas near the Grail Abyss.

 

The way I think of it is thus: The original Wardens would be our unnamed predecessor, Arkangilos' Sanguinary Crusaders and perhaps a smattering of other Chapters. As time wears on, war and politics takes their toll, leaving the original grouping in tatters - possibly even leaving the Sanguinary Crusaders as the only original member left. But the Sanguinary Crusaders are not content with how things stand.

 

A short time prior to this project's intended events, the Sanguinary Crusaders set about re-contacting the sons of the brother Chapters they had lost. The most success (so far) would be from the BA line - the Red Sentinels, the Crimson Host, the Crimson Knights and one other are found to exist, leading to the Sanguinary Crusaders unofficially reforming the Grail Wardens with one specific task in mind - recover the Relic Grail lost millennia ago.  

 

 

 

This particular set up leaves the project open to other non-BA successor DIYs to join in and also explains why, although the Grail Wardens were supposed to be situated around the Grail Abyss, the current members are scattered across the galaxy. We can also accommodate, with not a lot of trouble, the majority of the Sanguinary Crusaders IA. The changes that could be made can really be just additions to what has been written already. 

 

Of course, such an idea can be refined, changed or nixed altogether if necessary. It's merely an explanation I've pulled out of my ass as I've gone along.

 

Also, I proposed the idea that Cesar's chapter could have been presumed to be of blood angels stock, but it was later discovered that they weren't (much like the Soul Drinkers, only the other way round  ) From then on they would be honourary members in a way, because they don't want to spill the beans over their battle-brothers' Flaw.

 

If Cèsar is cool with the idea, then sure, I don't see why not. The records might say they are the descendants of _____ Chapter but that is merely a clerical error and Cèsar's boys know better. We may have to come up with a reason why the AdMech hasn't spotted the error yet, though, from the centuries or millennia of gene-seed tithes...

 

 

Wow, that idea seems eminently workable  You can see the experience shine through 

 

I don't know if the error not being noticed is such a huge problem, since the Soul Drinkers were thought to be Imperial Fists successors, both by the Imperium and the chapter itself, until the Blood Angels showed that was wrong...

 

However, that idea was mainly to explain why a non Blood Angel was running around with Blood Angels, and your idea would circumvent that problem...

[Slave to Darkness]

Hang on, where does it say the Soul Drinkers aint Fist successors? I must have missed that. Unless it was in the last book, not had a chance to read that yet.

[Doctor Perils]

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to spoil anything 

 

It might well be, I found the info here.

[Slave to Darkness]

Oh you didnt spoil anything, the only time spoilers bother me is when it is Game f Thrones or Vikings :D

thb I thought the books were getting worse as they went on. 

[Olis]

Hang on, where does it say the Soul Drinkers aint Fist successors? I must have missed that. Unless it was in the last book, not had a chance to read that yet.

 

Oh, uh, yeah. Cat's out of the bag now anyway - it's the big plot twist in Phalanx, iinm. *shrug*

 

(Oh, and I thought the series was just terrible from start to finish. More fool me for buying the books. :rolleyes:)

Edited September 7, 2015 by Olis

[Slave to Darkness]

Ahh well, just saved myself 6 hours reading there :D

[EesiOh]

Ok putting it out their. If their is still an opening and you will have me, The Archangels are more than willing to commit a large section of their force if they believed the grail could somehow cure the flaw (everyone in the chapter has a Brother Corbulo like obsession with curing the flaw)

 

-Edit: The Archangels also reside on the edge of imperial space in Obscurus, so they re kind of close by too 

Edited September 7, 2015 by EesiOh

[Slave to Darkness]

Well I started writing the fluff for my Renegades, at this rate I might have it done by xmas :P Just working on the reason why they turned their backs on the Imperium, the best I can think of at the moment is that they are a distant successor from a late founding, and they feel that the older chapters look down their noses at them, and being a bunch of arrogant bastards they believe themselves to be the equal if not better than their peers,. Seeing them as chapters who get by on their past victories, unworthy of the reputation they have. Maybe Slaanesh has been working his influence on them for a while, maybe the Chapter Master let his pride get the better of him and then Slaanesh moved in, unsure on that part atm. 

Maybe if I sleep on it for a bit rather than trying to do it all in one go...

[Olis]

Maybe if I sleep on it for a bit rather than trying to do it all in one go...

 

Maybe... just maybe... if your group was one of the successors contacted by the Sanguinary Crusaders (er... or something leading to them knowing about this new group of Grail Wardens) then that could be a reason for them to take part in this event. Who doesn't want a nice shiny Imperial relic? ^_^

[Doctor Perils]

I think both your proposals can work together really. Let's say the Knights Resplendant are one of the "original chapter's" descendents, but was only founded four Millenia later. They start going about their business as any normal chapter would, and then are contacted by their "uncle" chapter of the Sanguinary Crusaders. By this point they have already accumulated a good deal of combat experience, and so they are taken aback when the older chapters of the "New Grail Wardens" look down upon them as upstarts... Thus starts their slow descent into chaos...

One thing that could be quite important to know is when they turn ?

 

I've added Olis's idea(s) to the first post, and Eesioh to the roster. I'd like everyone in the project to give their opinions about each idea, so that we can go ahead and get this organised.

 

Quick Summary of possible plot

 

I am personally in favor of Olis's idea of the loose coalition of chapters that are meant originally to patrol a sector of the Galaxy known as the Grail Abyss. Two of their number are Blood Angels, the Sanguinary Crusaders and the "Knights of the Grail" (name pending approval), and possibly several others are also there (Cesar's Crimson Knights could be members of the original Grail Wardens). However, a massive onslaught (by an as yet unidentified faction) destroys the Knights of the Grail, and most of the other chapters (if there are any more), taking with them a great relic called the "Grail" (name pending approval), an unkown artefact found on the now Dead World of Grail and long examined by the Techmarines and Apothecaries of the Knights of the Grail.

 

For the better part of the ensuing Millenium, the Sanguinary Crusaders have to reconquer the Grail Abyss. When then retake the Knights' original homeworld, they encounter ++insert suitable mad candidate++, from whom they learn that this artifact may contain the long sought after cure to the Flaw.

 

By this time, the High Lords of Terra have called the 6th Founding, and created two/three chapters from the amazingly pure gene-seed of the Knights of the Grail: the Red Sentinels, the [? Sir Perfluous's chapter], and supposedly the Crimson Knights (?) [Arkangilos, would you consider moving your chapter to 6th founding ? Or else could the Arkangels have joined the Grail Wardens earlier on ?]. The Sanguinary Crusaders call upon each one in turn to join the hunt for the lost relic, as, if it does indeed contain the cure, it could be the single greatest artefact for all sons of Sanguinius, surpassing even the weapons born by their Primarch during his life!

 

This hunt is worse than looking for a needle in a haystack, due to the unknown nature of the Grail and the size of the Imperium, and so takes millenia to undertake. During this time, new chapters are founded from the New Grail Wardens, including the Silver Sons, the Crimson Host and the Knights Resplendent, and many of them also join the quest for the Grail. Later still, some abandon the quest (namely the newly reborn Crimson Cohort), and some turn traitor (the Knights Resplendent)... ... ... End of currently known story.

 

 

I have to admit, I'm also quite fond of the idea of a small band of Marines who are on the quest on their own, searching throughout the Imperium, but sharing any clues they might find. These marines pledge themselves to a separate order, and this Order contains marines from several different chapters.

 

 

Anyway, there are my thoughts on the matter, I hand the mic over to you.

[Kelborn]

Hm... what about Trazyn?

 

He could have stolen the Grail. Not in the beginning but later on for example...

 

The Grail finally returned to the Grail Wardens but on their way home they were attacked by Trazyn. He stole the grail because he is a sneaky little magpie.

 

Now, the mentioned band of brothers of Lord Thorn hunts Trazyn and keeps the rest of the Wardens informed about their hunt.

 

Besides this, I really enjoy this project. This is what I hoped to find here.

 

Even if I yet don't know how they could be part of it, could my Black Hands join in?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kelborn

[Doctor Perils]

Hum... I have to admit, I can't really see how your warband would fit in ? All the other chapters already had big involvement with questing (specifically for a grail in most cases), or have a great hatred of the Flaw (in the case of the Archangels)

 

Ultimately, yes, the Black Hands would be allowed to join, but I think we'd have to find a way of making it fit better. I'm not actually very fond of any of the chapters finding the Grail, because that would mean dispelling any mystery about it, which is part of the savour of the whole quest for the Grail... Also, I'm not fond of having the Swords of Haldroth or the Carmine Blades linked to the project, since they are an official chapter, meaning that we would be less free to do what we want.

 

As it stands, I can probably envision one big campaign that you would be part of, with loyalist Grail Wardens believing you have the Grail (or at least a lead), and attacking you en masse, leading you to probably find some sort of allies since your warband would not withstand the combined might of three or four chapters of the Grail Wardens... Beyond that I don't really have any ideas for the moment, but feel free to provide any options.

 

Of course, if the other members of the project think your idea works already, then, sure ! This is a community project after all, and I don't mean to impose my visions on it. Otherwise, if you or any of the other members find another way of fitting you in, we'd be happy to have you ! All we have to do is wait for other opinions.

 

 

 

However, I'd be of a mind to close the project to any more newcomers after Kelborn, at least for the moment ? We've got enough members and chapters taking part to make a nice piece of 40k fluff, and having too many members is likely to create complications.

 

Once we've sorted out the whole plot line and started writing things, and once some of the chapters start leaving the alliance (like my Crimson Host/Cohort), then it would be possible to invite new members in. Does this sound reasonable to everyone ?

[Kelborn]

I'm absolutely fine with it.

 

You're wright. At the moment there is no real reason to involve the Black Hands into it. Hm... I will think about it while working on my Liber Challenge. I am with you in not including the Swords of Haldroth and the Carmine Blades as well. 

 

Maybe the Black Hands, especially their leader Alek Venar, want to get rid off the Blood-Curse because more and more brothers suffer from it. Something like the Crimson Slaughter and their search to get rid off the voices in their heads....maybe that would work.

 

Nevertheless, thanks for letting me join you.

[EesiOh]

I think both your proposals can work together really. Let's say the Knights Resplendant are one of the "original chapter's" descendents, but was only founded four Millenia later. They start going about their business as any normal chapter would, and then are contacted by their "uncle" chapter of the Sanguinary Crusaders. By this point they have already accumulated a good deal of combat experience, and so they are taken aback when the older chapters of the "New Grail Wardens" look down upon them as upstarts... Thus starts their slow descent into chaos...

One thing that could be quite important to know is when they turn ?

 

I've added Olis's idea(s) to the first post, and Eesioh to the roster. I'd like everyone in the project to give their opinions about each idea, so that we can go ahead and get this organised.

 

Quick Summary of possible plot

 

I am personally in favor of Olis's idea of the loose coalition of chapters that are meant originally to patrol a sector of the Galaxy known as the Grail Abyss. Two of their number are Blood Angels, the Sanguinary Crusaders and the "Knights of the Grail" (name pending approval), and possibly several others are also there (Cesar's Crimson Knights could be members of the original Grail Wardens). However, a massive onslaught (by an as yet unidentified faction) destroys the Knights of the Grail, and most of the other chapters (if there are any more), taking with them a great relic called the "Grail" (name pending approval), an unkown artefact found on the now Dead World of Grail and long examined by the Techmarines and Apothecaries of the Knights of the Grail.

 

For the better part of the ensuing Millenium, the Sanguinary Crusaders have to reconquer the Grail Abyss. When then retake the Knights' original homeworld, they encounter ++insert suitable mad candidate++, from whom they learn that this artifact may contain the long sought after cure to the Flaw.

 

By this time, the High Lords of Terra have called the 6th Founding, and created two/three chapters from the amazingly pure gene-seed of the Knights of the Grail: the Red Sentinels, the [? Sir Perfluous's chapter], and supposedly the Crimson Knights (?) [Arkangilos, would you consider moving your chapter to 6th founding ? Or else could the Arkangels have joined the Grail Wardens earlier on ?]. The Sanguinary Crusaders call upon each one in turn to join the hunt for the lost relic, as, if it does indeed contain the cure, it could be the single greatest artefact for all sons of Sanguinius, surpassing even the weapons born by their Primarch during his life!

 

This hunt is worse than looking for a needle in a haystack, due to the unknown nature of the Grail and the size of the Imperium, and so takes millenia to undertake. During this time, new chapters are founded from the New Grail Wardens, including the Silver Sons, the Crimson Host and the Knights Resplendent, and many of them also join the quest for the Grail. Later still, some abandon the quest (namely the newly reborn Crimson Cohort), and some turn traitor (the Knights Resplendent)... ... ... End of currently known story.

 

 

I have to admit, I'm also quite fond of the idea of a small band of Marines who are on the quest on their own, searching throughout the Imperium, but sharing any clues they might find. These marines pledge themselves to a separate order, and this Order contains marines from several different chapters.

 

 

Anyway, there are my thoughts on the matter, I hand the mic over to you.

im cool with the Archangels joining whenever, remember they are 4th founding. As for the general plot line I like it. It suits nicely. The main things we need to organise right now in my opinion are exactly who has the grail (unless we purposely make that a mystery) who are the forces arrayed against us (either whoever has the grail, or Chaos/ some other race who either wants to claim the grail for themselves or prevent us from getting it) and also what each chapter is contributing to this Grail Hunt. 

For example Kellborne's  black hands might not have the grail or anything like that, but they hear that a bunch of BA chapters (and others) are looking for something, so they decide they want to be dicks (not sure if im allowed to say that word...) to the BA successors and try and stop them at everymove 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Olis
Technically, yes. However, if you're going to self censor, then please us the appropriate emoticon.

[Doctor Perils]

For me, the Grail would always remain a mystery, even as far as to what it really is ? It could be a physical grail, it could be an STC fragment, it could be a cured gene-strain, it could be a set of philosophical teachings... If it turns out it really is a relic, in 6 millenia, it has time to change hands quite a bit, which is one reason why it is so difficult to find.

 

In forces arrayed against "us", SlaveToDarkness's Knights Resplendent are clear enemy rivals, Cesar de Quart's Crimson Knights have inimical relations with certain Eldar and Dark Eldar, my own Crimson Host/Cohort eventually discover they are being manipulated by a Greater Daemon (probably Slaanesh since there are quite a few links with the Dark Prince developing). I also like the idea of creating a rival Imperial Knight House who is also looking for the Grail (probably because they believe that it is an STC fragment, and they may originally hail from the world of Grail in the Grail Abyss (uh oh, I fear I may be falling into the trap of creating Graily grail blood knights of the grail...)

There are already quite a few enemy possibilities, and I'm sure I'm missing many out (each person already having started to develop their chapters on their own).

 

It seems like Kelborn understands my stance on the Black Hands: even if I would like to have him on board, I'm afraid that crowbaring his warband into the project would create plot holes that would degrade the quality of the project and of his own warband. That's not to say that he can't join, it just means that he/we would have to find a more compelling way of making it work. I think that a simple "they find out about the quest and decide to prevent us from completing it" is a bit too flimsy to be that brilliant.

 

However, a more reduced role for the Black Hands is definitely possible, as I tried to show with the example of the campaign against the Black Hands. And Kelborn himself is also free to join in on the project in other ways, like creating plot lines, characters and the like.

[Kelborn]

That' s what I thought. Being the antagonist of a campaign is farely enough for them. Like you said, I would need to change the fluff of them in a too heavy way. My plan was to make them the nemesis of my Dark Knights. It would be too much making them a constant part of this project.

 

Well, I will help as much as I can. :)

[Sir Perfluous]

This is shaping up to be really awesome. I've been away from this all for a bit, but I'll try to be a bit more active in this collaboration from now on. And Lord Thørn, that backstory looks fantastic.

 

For me, the Grail would always remain a mystery, even as far as to what it really is ? It could be a physical grail, it could be an STC fragment, it could be a cured gene-strain, it could be a set of philosiphical teachings...

I also like the idea of the Grail's true nature being kept ambiguous, as it allows for a different interpretaion between chapters of what it really is, much as varying theological views seperate religions in the real world (Catholicism and Protestantism, for example). My lot (still unnamed, unfortunately - I really need to come up with a name soon to save you all having to refer to me as "Sir Perfluous' Chapter"!) believe that it is an actual grail-shaped grail, and base their iconography and so forth on that. The differing views on the Grail could potentially cause a divide amongst the chapters.

[Arkangilos]

Ok, so I don't have much time to message about this right now, I'll do more details later.

 

However, as for the founding issues: That isn't really an issue. Just because I'm second founding doesn't mean it was created when I was. The three chapters that formed the Grail Wardens could have maybe done a major campaign to conquer the region in the first place, and through that alliance made the Grail Wardens.

 

Also, I'm starting to think that the Grail Wardens should be tasked with defending the sector, rather than an actual artifact. The sector *is* the grail, maybe? (Also, onto the sector, I'm actually not a fan of using pre-made sectors. I think we should make our own). Maybe my chapter knows that, but the only way I can convince you to defend the sector that has fallen since most of the chapters have gone (and mine is tied up else where), is to lie and tell you that we have found the clues, or something. Basically I found out what each chapter was looking for and fabricated evidence to get you all to fight for the sector. The original remaining wardens know better, but to get help, that's what we needed to do.

 

This would allow DiY chaos warbands to be involved whether they are chasing an actual grail or not, because they are attacking the sector. In fact, maybe my lies to the other chapters actually harmed the sector more, because now the enemy is learning that there might be something powerful here, which only escalates it. (I mean, I don't care if it's ignored).

 

The reason I suggest that is because (according to the Death Watch RPG's, anyways), whenever the idea of discovering a grail pops up, the Blood Angels (and many successors) would already embark on a crusade to retrieve it. I say that because us searching for a grail (that could potentially hold the Blood of Sanguinius) is not special. It's common sense for any of us. So it would need to either be something far more abstract, or something that isn't really worth the time of other Blood Angel successors.

 

To the Soul Drinker thing, I always thought it was confirmed that they weren't Imperial Fist successors, but it was never confirmed who they were. It was just a Blood Angel that discovered it (meaning they could be anyone, for all we know). I'm not really too fond of the idea of someone believing they are a Blood Angel successor unless they have similar flaws. It's pretty easy to hell who Blood Angel successors are, and who they are not. The only recorded case of someone *not* knowing was in the end, and they had the same flaws, they just thought it was for something else. So unless he has people that periodically go crazy, I don't think that idea is a very sound one.

 

But the divide mentioned by Sir Perf could be caused by "learning the truth" behind a lie that I told to get you all here.

 

Here is the quote from the deathwatch supplement:

Entire campaigns have been launched by the Blood Angels and their Successors to recover a lost Blood Chalice, and the mere rumour that one has been identified is sufficient to drive the Blood Angels to the edges of the galaxy and beyond to retrieve it.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Arkangilos