Paikis Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I usually run my tacs with flamers or plasma all round. Recently however I've been seeing marine lists with tacticals having a heavy flamer and a melta or a heavy flamer and grav but with no mention of combat squads My usual plan is to drive my flamers up the board, disembark, flame and then charge and then use my Stormraven and meltacide squads for tank hunting. How do you guys run yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin_the_Martian Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Honestly, I've only ever been frustrated with how my Tactical Squads perform. I've tried sticking a 5-man tac squad with a meltagun and a sgt. combi-melta in a Rhino to provide cover for jump units and melta support. I've tried the 10-man heavy flamer, flamer, sergeant combi-flamer in a drop pod build too. All my experiences with trying them in various transports and with different loadouts have led to the same conclusion which I think many space marine players reach: they're just not effective enough. Which is kinda crazy if you're just looking at their codex entry. Here is a unit that is durable, capable of multiple specializations, and has a HUGE variety of transports to choose from to help bring their firepower to bear. Not to mention the And They Shall Know No Fear rule and krak grenades, which are really useful for swarming vehicles with rear armor 10. And all for 14 points! Looks pretty good on paper. But for all of that capability, I don't think there's a battlefield role they really excel in. Except maybe getting rid of GEQ blobs, but since I usually play against Chaos Marines, Tau, and Necrons, that's not something I encounter that often. Equipping them with plasma weaponry does give them the ability to deal some damage to TEQ and monstrous creatures, but you really need to be in rapid fire range to do any significant damage, and once they're within 12" of something that dangerous, they'd better be able to kill it since both monstrous creatures and anything with a 2+ armor save can probably take on 5-10 tac marines in close combat. As for equipping them with melta weaponry, why not take assault squads with 2 meltaguns instead? Since assault squads can take two special weapons even in a 5 man unit, they can pack more melta into a smaller unit AND they can take a drop pod for FREE (a 35 point value!). They're ultimately cheaper than tactical marines for the same capability. Your use of tac marines as flamer units is definitely the best way to use them. Sticking a 5-man unit with a heavy flamer and combi-flamer in a rhino is not a bad plan if the idea is to take two or more of these units and use them to thin out GEQ blobs while remaining safe in their fast transports. Just some things to keep in mind: rhinos are notorious for giving up First Blood as they're pretty easy to pop. Razorbacks are much the same, except they're 20 points more expensive, and don't have any firing ports. Using tactical squads in Razorbacks really stresses the importance of making sure that the squad has enough firepower to take out whatever it's shooting or at least deal enough casualties that whatever's left won't pose much of a threat to the marines. I'm not really sure why someone would take a grav gun in a tac squad...bolters don't do a lot of damage to the things you'd use grav guns to kill, but maybe I'm missing something. Anyways, that's just my two cents. Consider the role you're using for tactical squads for, and whether or not there's another unit in the codex which would be better suited for it. I can totally understand if you want to use Tac Squads for fluff reasons or because they feel cool. 40k is all about having fun, after all so play what you enjoy playing with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Some on this forum swear by the melta/ HF combination. Pop their transport and roast em is the theory, against space clown and both varieties of space elves I can definately see the logic. Watch as a rhino flat outs at a venom for the contents to first pop the transport then roast the incubi survivors. Fap worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs_evo7 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I run two squads of 10 in combat squads. Both in drop pods which i drop in their line. One 10 man squad is geared anti inf with combi plasma, grav gun/heavy flamer and the other squad combi melta, melta and multi melta. I drop them in their line and do as much damage as possible. I didn't know that the assault squad could take two meltas though so i might incorporate that squad instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 In my opinion Tacticals are premium anti infantry, maybe extending to light transports (AV 10, sometimes 11). When you bring Melta and you shoot a tank, while you may kill it with a lucky shot, you waste a potential 8-16 bolter shots. Those could've done damage elsewhere and your melta could've gotten another (albeit less impressive) kill, or better yet a different special weapon like a flamer, grav or plasma with a higher rate of fire could've gotten more. People complain that Tacticals aren't good, but I think they are, they are versatile but only in that they are able to deal with lots of different infantry well. Every model in the squad (and by extension army) needs to have its potential maximised, so like I said, when you pot shot a Melta at a tank, successful or not, you waste the shooting potential of the rest of your squad. Every Marine comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and a set of grenades. Being Blood angels we also have a couple of potential S5 punches to the face too. You need to use all of these to thier fullest and that is by killing what they can easily harm - other infantry. My load out is all about piling on wounds with the potential to assault - flamer, Heavy flamer and then a sergeant with either combi flamer, hand flamers or power sword. Between rapid fire, multiple templates and a cheeky grenade you can score a lot of wounds on anything. Then if you want to assault you just shoot the pistols instead and get some S5 hits instead :) My view is not all inclusive though, combat squads help alleviate the wasted shots problem but to me it's not much of a solution and it is still wasted models. BA have anti tank in Meltacide, speeders, attack bikes and inferno pistols sprinkled around, let our superior dudes bully thiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The way I built my tactical squad was: 10 Tactical Marines Veteran Sergeant w/Combi-Plasma, Power Sword and Melta Bombs Plasma Gun Heavy Bolter 205 It's definitely geared towards clearing out infantry, but the unit can threaten infantry with all different kinds of saves, which I feel makes it worthy of taking in my games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The way I built my tactical squad was: 10 Tactical Marines Veteran Sergeant w/Combi-Plasma, Power Sword and Melta Bombs Plasma Gun Heavy Bolter 205 It's definitely geared towards clearing out infantry, but the unit can threaten infantry with all different kinds of saves, which I feel makes it worthy of taking in my games. Bonus points for heavy bolters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The problem with heavy bolters (or any true 'heavy' weapons) in tactical squads is you can't move and shoot. That is the beauty of the heavy flamer - it's not 'heavy', it's 'assault' ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The problem with heavy bolters (or any true 'heavy' weapons) in tactical squads is you can't move and shoot. That is the beauty of the heavy flamer - it's not 'heavy', it's 'assault' Aye, also anything the Heavy Flamer is shooting at will take the same damage from a Heavy Bolter - at least when talking S/AP. I'd be willing to bet in one heavy flamer shot you do more than the heavy bolter shooting all game! Plus D3 hits on overwatch :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I guess heavy weapons can be okay if the plan is just to camp back field on an objective, but if that's the plan use scouts with cloaks - go to ground for 2+ cover save, better than the 3+ on tacticals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4uCupCake Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 well I can give you tips and advice for tacticals if you tell me what you are using them for such as What game type situation are you talking about? Do you know what your local meta is? or who you normally play against? more specifically what army and what type of player are they? I love tacticals, I preach using them to take 30 tacticals fully dakka'd out in a 2,000pts list in rhinos and they always make their points back I promise. I play against Grey knights ( heavy terminators) , chaos, and nids regularly and I have different flavors of tacticals for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The problem with heavy bolters (or any true 'heavy' weapons) in tactical squads is you can't move and shoot. That is the beauty of the heavy flamer - it's not 'heavy', it's 'assault' Well you CAN move but your heavy bolter shots count as snap-fire; your point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The with Tac marines is that they're not very Killy which is why people don't like them. People tend to want units that are good at killing your opponents models. However, the real strength of Tac marines is that they're good at holding objectives (and I don't mean sitting there doing nothing), since they're mediocre at everything and come with ATSKNF and have a decent save they can be tough to shift. The best use I've found for them is keeping them cheap and either grabbing objectives and shooting anything that cones within 24" or using them to tie a unit in assault so you can get one of your dedicated assault units in to finish them off. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think a great strength of them is unlocking slotless, fast, las/Plas razorbacks! Something to be said for them for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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