RULES - Daemon Primarch

[MikhalLeNoir]

As Raktra suggested, here is a new Thread in order to create Rules for the Various Daemon Primarchs and Daemon Princes, who are in the Icarion Insurrection.

This will help to keep the Primarch Thread clean and it is easier to oversee both threads.

 

Now we can create Rules and Stats, just for the most badass characters around at the Insurrection.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Lord Thørn

[Grifftofer]

I suggest that for the Daemon Primarchs they get a variation on the Primarch rule.

 

Daemon Primarch (Monstrous Creature, Eternal Warrior, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion, Daemon, Horrifying Might)

 

Horrifying Might - All Fear checks made when fighting a model with this special rule are made at -1 Leadership.

 

 

I suggest this as to me Daemon Primarchs shouldn't be running around in units they should be smashing things up by themselves. They would also get some little benefits from being Monstrous (Smash, Relentless and Move Through Cover) that will compensate a little bit for not being able to join units.

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Well, here ya go, including deamon primarch rule:

Alexos, The denier of truth and the bane of sense: 725 pts

 

Ws8 bs6 s7 t8 w7 I8 A6 ld10 sv2+/4++

 

wargear:

Artificer armor

Iron halo

obsidian Tora Spear

Deamonic Ripper claw

Wings (counts as jump pack)

 

Special Rules:

Deamon Primarch

Deamon

fear

The Aztecian

Gene builder

rage

furious charge

unfocussed (May never make overwatch shots)

weapon master

ML2: Only knows the "Enfeble" and "forewarning" spells

Mark of chaos ancedant

 

Deamonic Ripper claw: CC: R.- S+1 ap1 Melta, concussive, soulblaze, unwieldy, does D3 wounds per wound it causes.

Shooting: R.Template S: poison 3+ ap3 rending, soulblaze

Edited September 14, 2015 by AlphariusOmegon108

[Praefectus Invictus]

Honestly, for some of the more khornate or pyschotic primarchs, I think they should lose master of the legion, It doesn't make much sense that someone as deranged as Raktra still has the ability to command the intricateness of the legions (Rites of War). Also they should have their respective mark from their patron (MoK for Raktra etc) and give the ability for squads in the army to take the corresponding mark of their primarch.

[MikhalLeNoir]

For the psychopatics i think that is true, but wasn't angron leading an army on armageddon?

[Praefectus Invictus]

For the psychopatics i think that is true, but wasn't angron leading an army on armageddon?

I doubt angron was doing much leading, more like killing/maiming/burning. Its ultimately up to the guys with daemon primarchs to decide.

[Big Bad Squig]

Koschei Kharkovic – 560 pts

Daemon Primarch of the Godslayers, The Slow Death, Eater of Hearts

WS: 7   BS: 5   S: 7   T: 7   W: 7   I: 6   A: 5   Ld: 10   Sv: 2+

 

Unit Composition:

·         1 (Unique)

 

Unit Type:

·         Monstrous Creature (Character)

 

Wargear:

·         The Black Mantle

·         God’s Hand

·         Bubonic Sickle

·         Pestilent Screech

 

Special Rules:

·         Daemon Primarch

·         Hand of Papa Nurgle

·         Preferred Enemy (psykers)

·         Sire of the Godslayers

·         Extremely Bulky

·         Psychic Suppressant

 

Warlord Trait:

·         Intimidating Presence

 

God’s Hand:  RNG: -   S: x2   AP: 1   Melee, Unwieldy, Concussive, Master Crafted

 

Bubonic Sickle:  RNG: -   S: User   AP: 3   Melee, Murderous Strike, Piercing Blow, Psy-bane, Fleshbane

Psy-bane:  Gains the Instant Death special rule when targeting a psyker.

 

Pestilent Screech:  RNG: Template   S: 1   AP: 3   Poisoned (5+), Deflagrate, Mindplague, Torrent

Mindplague:  Any units that take one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon must immediately take a morale check, with a negative modifier equal to the amount of models killed by this weapon that shooting phase.

 

The Black Mantle:  2+ armour save, 4+ invulnerable save, Aegis

Aegis:  Destroyer weapons suffer a -1 modifier on the Destroyer chart when targeting Koschei.

 

Hand of Papa Nurgle:  All Nurgle Daemons that are within 12 inches of Koschei gain +1 to their invulnerable saves, and do not scatter when Deep Striking.

 

Sire of the Godslayers:  Feel No Pain (4+).  All friendly models with Legiones Astartes (Godslayers) gain Feel No Pain (6+). If Koschei is slain, all friendly models with Legiones Astartes (Godslayers) gain Feel No Pain and Fearless.

 

Psychic Suppressant: All blessing and maledictions within 6" inches immediately cease to effect. All psykers within 6" inches suffer -2 leadership. He and his unit may not be targeted by any psychic powers, and he grants all units fully within 6 inches +2 to Deny the Witch rolls.

 

The Army of Corpses:  At the end of each (enemy or friendly) turn, if a unit with this rule has fought in close combat, set up a unit of Plague Zombies within 6”, equal to the number of models slain by that model with To Wound rolls of 4+.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Compared to Alexos kinda weak, but Alexos costs nearly double the points

[Slips]

Compared to Alexos kinda weak, but Alexos costs nearly double the points

I'm going with Restrained vs Weak http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

 

But, since he is a Nurgle Daemon Primarch, boosting his general toughness and survivability would make sense in this case. But, since Nurgles number is 7, having T7 and W7 makes fluffy sense http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png maybe boost Attacks to 7 to have a 777 Profile.

 

Oh, and a Psychic-Null Daemon is kinda wonky since it would mean hes also suppressing himself with his Blankness due to him now being a Daemon and/or causing himself pain.

 

Alexos, I feel, might need to be reined in a bit. At his points costs, I'd pretty much be able to field a Reaver Titan on my side and S:D him to oblivion.

 

So, reeling him back to ~600-700 points with Slightly reduced Stats (Is he dedicated to a god or Undivided?) would be fair; maybe give him the mark of Chaos Ascendant (a la Abaddon) in his profile?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Slipstreams

[AlphariusOmegon108]

He is chaos undevided yes

 

I was considering losing out on 1 strength and wound and iniative, and pushing his costs back to 725pts, he is kinda overcosted in his current state if you consider what you can field against him for his point cost

[Slips]

Exactly. Maybe have his WS higher to reflect Khorne, Initiative for Slaanesh, Toughness for Nurgle and something for Tzeentch - maybe PM3/4 with preselected powers (to avoid invis shenanigans)

 

Or just give him the mark of chaos ascendant

 

Everything else would either be at-primarch level (statwise) or ever-so-slightly higher.

 

when you account for the changes of turning him into an MC and Daemon it should be enough for a 600+ cost mayhaps.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Grifftofer]

I feel that +1 S,T,W,A is a good starting point for any Daemon Primarch. Then something like +1 WS (Khorne), +1T (Nurgle), +1I (Slaanesh) and Manifest PsychicPowers on a 3+(Tzeentch). All that would work out at about +60-80 points if you include the rule chage I suggest above IMO. Then if you have Wings +20-25 points (I believe Chaos Marine Daemon Princes got them for +20, but a Primarch should probably be charged a little more http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

 

Add a couple of other flavour things (eg. Special Rules) afterwards and you have a bona-fide Daemon Primarch ready to tear big holes in any Loyalists that they come up against.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Grifftofer

[Demus Ragnok]

Seeing as primarchs already have greater daemon stats I wonder if perhaps maybe ascension should make primarchs more "different" rather than straight up "better".

 

I mean a BloodThirster is S7 T6 W4.

 

A Great Unclean One is only 6 6 5.

[Raktra]

Ehhh. Can we avoid the current GW trend of "Chaos = stupid evil"? Khorne's went from the god of war, marital prowess etc. to the god of incomprehensible bellowing, Slaanesh does nothing, and Tzeentch just keeps falling on his arse. I think only Nurgle's stayed consistent. Let's have us bring back the old actually characterful gods.

[Athrawes]

I suppose, Icarion Ascended would fit in here? Icarion champion of the Four Gods, basically the roided up version that can tango with the Emperor.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Seeing as primarchs already have greater daemon stats I wonder if perhaps maybe ascension should make primarchs more "different" rather than straight up "better".

 

I mean a BloodThirster is S7 T6 W4.

 

A Great Unclean One is only 6 6 5.

My only disagreement on this is Forgeworld's super greater daemons, just because the Daemon Primarchs are supposed to be the greatest champions of the individual gods. So with Angron having a bodyguard of a Dozen Bloodthirters, I'm curious to see what Raktra or Morrow's ascension into the pantheon will be like.

 

But I do agree 100% that they should stand out and be unique from the Greater Daemons.

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Yeah, the deamon primarchs from FW cost around 666 to 999 pts, so they are also more expensive then the normal greater deamons Demus is talking about.

 

The FW ones are way stronger then the normal deamon ones, keep that in mind ;)

[Chief Captain Redd]

Ohh I know that, I used to face the Tzeench one all the time, it was insane.

[Grifftofer]

True but some of them weren't ever worth the points costs they were given as I recall.

[Chief Captain Redd]

The Tzeench and Khorne ones are or were worth it IMO. I'd never really looked at or faced the Nurgle and Slaanesh ones.

[Raktra]

Maybe it'd be a safe option to look at the difference between a daemon prince and a marine captain to base our stats off. Seems like a similar jump.

[Grifftofer]

My Chaos Marines book puts the difference at: +3WS, +2S, +1T, +1W +3I, +2A, -1Ld for +16 melta bombs (though that is more than double the Lord's base cost of 13 melta bombs). Oh and the DP has to re-buy Power Armour for +4 melta bombs. I personally think that might be going a little far as it would make basically any Primarch WS10, S8, I8+ with A6+ base!

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well, then it is at least a challenge;)