To make Scruffy's troops 7th worthy

[Brother Scruffy]

Greetings Brothers. As some of you have noticed, I have returned from my long 6-9 year hiatus from B&CS and much has changed. Back in the day I was a sage of knowledge and sound advice(give a shout out if you remember some good times we had!), but sadly those days are over. Long over. After all last I played a real game, I had to roll to see how many of my troops turned to the DC! To get to the point, now I am the one that needs advice.

 

I implore you all to gaze upon my listed collection and ponder the possibilities of a worthy 7th Edition army. What of the following would make for a good 1,650 point force? 2k? 1k? A kill team?(is a killteam still a thing?) How about a 55 point mini team? Sounds fierce. And what would you add to supplement my very MEQ lacking army?

 

I want to make it clear that what follows is not my BUILT collection but more of my army organized by what I have BOUGHT. I am very much into conversions and thinking outside the box. Heheh. I look forward to seeing the creativity of my fellow Blood Angels and seeing all the different lists and ideas that stem from one collection.

 

Tl;dr, what would you make with this?

 

1 Dante

1 Memphiston

1 Corbolo

1 Space Marine Commander

1 Terminator Chaplain (haha)

1 Terminator Librarian? I think this was a gift

 

5 Honor Guard (yeah, the old ones)

5 Command Squad

5 Veterans MK1 metal (sorta 4 as I don't like baldy)

5 Assault Terminators (plastic)

1 Terminator w/Assault Cannon (metal)

1 Furioso Dreadnought (metal)

 

15 Tactical Marines(5 from combat Squad + 10 from shooty space Woofs)

12+ snapfit Marines(from paint set & Maccrage)

11 Death Company (old metal ones)

2 Angels of Death (REALLY old metal ones)

10 Scouts (plastic)

10ish Sniper Scouts (4metal/5plastic)

 

10 Assault Marines

1 Assault Veteran Captain (metal. Good deal too!)

10 Stabby Space Woofs

5 more Stably Woofs?! What was I doing, collecting a Space Wolf Army??

2 Attack Bikes

 

10 Devastator Marines (5 old plastic & 5 even older hybrid set)

 

Other notes of conversation:

- I was collecting in the midst of the Assault Marines fad(as is evidenced by my collection). Now it seems jump packs are nerfed? Tell me about this. Are they still worthwhile?

- What's up with Grav weapons. Are Grav cannons important to have? (I want to avoid buying ANOTHER set of dev Marines if I can) Thanks CaptainHelion!

- What are the popular load outs for Scouts? Are Sniper Scouts still frowned upon for BA? Is a HB or RL worth it? Thanks CaptainHelion!

- So are all Space Marines supposed to be on 32mm bases now? I'm happy I put off doing my bases if that's the case. Thanks Golden Aegis!

- looking at people's lists, I don't notice too many people upgrading to vet sargs. Is this not worth the points anymore? Thanks Golden Aegis!

- How do our special characters fare in 7th? I hear Corbolo is pretty good now. Thanks Charlo and evildrcheese!

- Is Lemartes worth getting? He's a really cool model. Thanks Charlo and evildrcheese!

- I don't see much favor for combat shields these days. Are they not worth the points? What's the best use for them? Thanks Charlo!

- Is my collection at a severe disadvantage without a Sternguard? Thanks Charlo, evildrcheese and Golden Aegis!

- The drop pod model has been out for awhile now; Is it still considered acceptable to use a CD as a counts-as drop pod? (this one is a longshot, I know) Thanks Charlo!

- How many Dreadnoughts can we take now? Thanks Jønke!

- I've heard many complaints about our tactical squads. How many should I build up? I'd hate to build things that won't see much use. Thanks Quixus!

- I really like the idea of giving all of my sergeants back banners, but I run into a problem with signum toting dev sergeants. Any modeling ideas or similar advice for having a srgt with both?

- Speaking of which, what's a good load out for BA devs? For reference, my most likely opponents will be dark angels, tau, or maybe smurfs. Thanks Quixus!

- Are Squad markings tied to particular unit types? I.E., for a 5th company Army are marks 1st - 6th reserved for the 6 tactical squads? Or can I just, pick which Squad gets which marks? Thanks Quixus!

- Back in the day, there was no difference between power weapons, and I never much cared for axes. Now they seem really good. Are they OP compared to swords? Should I get some of each despite not liking the way most of the axes look? Thanks Jønke! Thanks Quixus!

- Hold up, are snipers no longer pinning? Thanks Quixus!

- I love the way heavy bolters look, but are they worthwhile?

- Way back when, I was planning on giving my Sanguinary Priest a spear. But is it just me or are the rules for power lances/spears rather.... bad?

- I have the rulebook, 7th BA codex, Exterminatus and I've seen the Deathstorm rules too. Are there any other sources for BA rules?

- What's this business about sicarans?

- The one thing that has confused me the most is all this talk of detachments and formations. So many acronyms. So many options. Can someone explain these to me in a straight forward way?

[CaptainHelion]

We can't actually take Grav-cannons at all, so you're safe from having Grav-Devs, at least. Many people swear by Gravguns on Bike squads, and it's easy to see why. Gravguns are Salvo 2/3 iirc, with 18" range, so putting them on a Relentless platform is rather useful, and Bike squads can take two special weapons and a Combi-weapon on the sergeant, giving you a fair bang for your buck. The speed of Bike squads is also good, as it helps negate the somewhat shorter range that Gravguns have vs bolters and Plasma.

Grav is essentially the premier method of cutting down Monstrous Creatures, as they ignore toughness entirely, wounding instead on their armour save value. This makes them particularly good against Gargantuan Creatures, as the other great ways to deal with MCs (Poison and Sniper) only wound on 6+. They also have Concussive, meaning running in with Powerists and the like to finish it off are actually a viable option.

Personally, I like to scatter Grav-Pistols around my characters, to give them a wee bit more kick against Terminators and high toughness targets. The concussive, in particular, is nice.

 

There's basically no wrong way to set up your scouts these days, in my opinion. Sniper scouts pair well with a heavy weapon, and are really great at sitting on an objective towards the back with Camo Cloaks, and not moving as the battle moves around them.

Melee scouts are pretty solid, in terms of hard hitting, low cost unit. A squad of ten with bolt pistols and close combat weapons will do 30 attacks at s5 on the charge. If you run a BSF, those 30 attacks will be hitting at I5, before most marines, and the same time as most Eldar-types, and they can be WS4 if you tuck a Sanguinary Priest in the squad. Also, obviously, the Scout Sergeant (And priest, if that's where you're going) has the options he usually does, which can really add some heft to the squad. I like a Vet Sergeant with a Fist, to really crunch into something.

 

Shotgun and bolter scouts form a nice middle ground here. Bolters have more range and ap5, but Shotguns let you charge. So, that's up to you. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose...

[Brother Scruffy]

Thanks, CaptainHelion! I really appreciate your advice! I think I have a much better grasp of Grav weapons now and can't wait to get some pistols. I am also relieved to hear that Scouts are a viable option as I just bought the plastic set of Sniper Scouts for a full Squad. I've always liked Scouts for some reason and feel like I'll be getting a lot of use out of them. I just have to decide how to equipt the sargeants.

 

More questions:

- So are all Space Marines supposed to be on 32mm bases now? I'm happy I put off doing my bases if that's the case.

- looking at people's lists, I don't notice too many people upgrading to vet sargs. Is this not worth the points anymore?

[Golden Aegis]

32mm is not required, you can use the older supplied bases if you'd like. (I still do because I'm a tad bit OCD, and want my minis on the same size bases.) You only really want to upgrade to vet if you're running a special weapon, anything then that is kinda a waste of points.

 

Assault Marines stuffed into drop pods with 2 melta guns, and a combi melta/dual infernus pistols are pretty hot for us right now, usually find myself adding at least two in most lists I make. Cheaper jump packs for DC is also a great change because they really are incredible for their price.

[Brother Scruffy]

32mm is not required, you can use the older supplied bases if you'd like. (I still do because I'm a tad bit OCD, and want my minis on the same size bases.) You only really want to upgrade to vet if you're running a special weapon, anything then that is kinda a waste of points.

Assault Marines stuffed into drop pods with 2 melta guns, and a combi melta/dual infernus pistols are pretty hot for us right now, usually find myself adding at least two in most lists I make. Cheaper jump packs for DC is also a great change because they really are incredible for their price.

Are there advantages/disadvantages for the different sized bases? I have a lot of 25mm, but the new ones do look nice for modeling purposes.

 

So would you upgrade the Sargent in the example of Assault Marines you gave?

[Golden Aegis]

Yeah, the pros for bigger bases is that slightly fewer models will be under templates.

 

Cons are fitting less models into close combat, and it makes it harder to get cover. And I wouldn't unless you can spare the points. I would only consider upgrading the sarge if you gave him some kind of power weapon, or fist.

[Brother Scruffy]

That's some good advice. Thanks Golden Aegis!

 

 

 

Some more questions:

- How do our special characters fare in 7th? I hear Corbolo is pretty good now.

- Is Lemartes worth getting? He's a really cool model.

- I don't see much favor for combat shields these days. Are they not worth the points? What's the best use for them?

- Is my collection at a severe disadvantage without a Sternguard?

- The drop pod model has been out for awhile now; Is it still considered acceptable to use a CD as a counts-as drop pod? (this one is a longshot, I know)

[Charlo]

Dante is a Beast, Seth is pretty good too, Corbulo needs a lost built around him but I like him with Sternguard or an assault unit in a transport. Mephiston is still a monster. Astorath makes your DC into one of the best assault units in the game (reroll hits and wounds).

 

Lemartes is a weird one, he himself is an entire elites slot. Unlike the space wolf characters of his kind that just join an appropriate squad. Get him hit once though and he'll murderise a lot with S8 attacks.

 

Combat Shields are just plain awful. But hey, might save your ass and they look cool!

 

Sternguard are good but by no means pivotal.

 

CD pod is up to your group - personally I'm fine with it, but it does mean you don't block Los with it and such. Maybe find a way to indicate that too. I feel your pain though, I recently bought a load of pods and it's the hardest purchase as they are so boring :P

[evildrcheese]

Most of our special characters have faired quite well going into 7th, but they do require some thought into how you're going to use them.

 

To dovetail into Sternguard, Mephiston is a great support character rocking Divation powers, the chance of ignores cover and rerolls as the primaris are just two examples on how he can make a good unit great. I have been running 9 Sternies with Meph in a rhino to good effect. Throw a couple of Combiplas plas on them and a Pfist on the sgt and they're very threatening.

 

The Lemartes model is worth picking up, even if you only run him as a stock Chaplain. (which is probably a better option IMO)

 

D

[Golden Aegis]

Also would like to mention if you want sternguards, the best bet for loadout if all combi grav. If you're facing some of the really nasty new monsters out (Ironically Eldar, and Tau.) You NEED grav.

[Brother Scruffy]

Thanks, guys! I appreciate the good advice. I think I'll hold off on getting a Sternguard if I can, but fire support is still an issue worth addressing in my force.

 

 

Even more questions:

- How many Dreadnoughts can we take now?

- I've heard many complaints about our tactical squads. How many should I build up? I'd hate to build things that won't see much use.

- I really like the idea of giving all of my sergeants back banners, but I run into a problem with signum toting dev sergeants. Any modeling ideas or similar advice for having a srgt with both?

- Speaking of which, what's a good load out for BA devs? For reference, my most likely opponents will be dark angels, tau, or maybe smurfs.

- Are Squad markings tied to particular unit types? I.E., for a 5th company Army are marks 1st - 6th reserved for the 6 tactical squads? Or can I just, pick which Squad gets which marks?

- Back in the day, there was no difference between power weapons, and I never much cared for axes. Now they seem really good. Are they OP compared to swords? Should I get some of each despite not liking the way most of the axes look?

- Hold up, are snipers no longer pinning?

[Jønke]

If you take the baal detachment you can have:

2 libby dreads as hq. 

4 dreads as elite 

1 as troop. The named one from shield of baal.

 

Axes dish out ap2 +1s hits which is great for killing termies and sutch. But its on initiative 1. If you use the baal detachment you get +1 initiative on the charge and that just go so much better in hand with a power sword. So you gotta choose between speed or force.

[Brother Scruffy]

If you take the baal detachment you can have:

2 libby dreads as hq. 

4 dreads as elite 

1 as troop. The named one from shield of baal.

 

Axes dish out ap2 +1s hits which is great for killing termies and sutch. But its on initiative 1. If you use the baal detachment you get +1 initiative on the charge and that just go so much better in hand with a power sword. So you gotta choose between speed or force.

You mean Cassor? Whatever happened to Moriar?

 

 

Hmm, speed IS nice..

[Jønke]

Yeah Cassor. No idea what happened to moriar....miss that old bastard...

[Brother Scruffy]

I don't care what GW thinks, I'm naming my DC dread Moriar.

[Brother_Mike]

I don't care what GW thinks, I'm naming my DC dread Moriar.

 

I think GW would be happy because you bought a DC dread :P

[Brother Scruffy]

 

I don't care what GW thinks, I'm naming my DC dread Moriar.

 

 

I think GW would be happy because you bought a DC dread :P

Fair point. GW does love money...

[Quixus]

- I've heard many complaints about our tactical squads. How many should I build up? I'd hate to build things that won't see much use.

It depends on what the rest of your army can do. Heavy flamers are unique to BA tacticals, so a squad with flamer, heavy flamer and combi flamer in a drop pod may be a good idea. If you want more vehicle killing, take melta gun and combi melta instead.

 

- Speaking of which, what's a good load out for BA devs? For reference, my most likely opponents will be dark angels, tau, or maybe smurfs.

Kill their vehicles seems to be your fist objective, so Lascannons and/or Missile Launchers.

 

- Are Squad markings tied to particular unit types? I.E., for a 5th company Army are marks 1st - 6th reserved for the 6 tactical squads? Or can I just, pick which Squad gets which marks?

Yes the squad markings are tied to certain squads. You can find this information in the codex. But feel free to apply them however you like, it is your army.

 

- Back in the day, there was no difference between power weapons, and I never much cared for axes. Now they seem really good. Are they OP compared to swords? Should I get some of each despite not liking the way most of the axes look?

No, they are just another option. You get better damage and AP, but run the risk of being killed before striking at all (I1). They are great when they are on models that cannot be singled out (e.g. DC) or when there is another character in the unit that can take care of (or sacrifice himself in) challenges.

 

- Hold up, are snipers no longer pinning?

Yup, and our scouts aren't BS 4 either,like the SM scouts.

[Brother Scruffy]

This has been really helpful guys and I thank you a lot. OK, so I'm going to start with just one Tactical Squad for now and see how it faires. I'm going to stick with power swords for the most part, but I may later add an axe to the DC as per Quixus's advice. I'll just have to find a really badass looking one. ;) As for Devs, MLs and Lascannons seem like a nice start and I'll switch in PCs given the right opportunity.

 

 

*BLAM* questions:

- I love the way heavy bolters look, but are they worthwhile?

- Way back when, I was planning on giving my Sanguinary Priest a spear. But is it just me or are the rules for power lances/spears rather.... bad?

- I have the rulebook, 7th BA codex, Exterminatus and I've seen the Deathstorm rules too. Are there any other sources for BA rules?

- What's this business about sicarans?

- The one thing that has confused me the most is all this talk of detachments and formations. So many acronyms. So many options. Can someone explain these to me in a straight forward way?

[Xenith]

Answers in Evil Sunz Scarlet:

 

*BLAM* questions:
- I love the way heavy bolters look, but are they worthwhile?

On infantry, generally no. You might have fun with a 4x heavy bolter dev squad, though. Cheap, and lots of shots. Tacticals and other squad need to be moving, so wont get too much use from it. I rule of cooled it, however the HVB mainly snapshots and has killed one thing in like 10 games.

- Way back when, I was planning on giving my Sanguinary Priest a spear. But is it just me or are the rules for power lances/spears rather.... bad?

+1S and AP on the charge. AP of a sword, str bonus of an axe, but only for one turn. There int really a wrong choice. Not great for character killing, but good for horde work, and MEQ killing. You'll be S6 AP3 on the charge.

 

- I have the rulebook, 7th BA codex, Exterminatus and I've seen the Deathstorm rules too. Are there any other sources for BA rules?

The White Dwarfs that came out around the same time as the codex had several formations, I think Joelmai has a list somewhere.

 

- What's this business about sicarans?

Look awesome. Great anti skimmer, put out more shots than a baal predator for the same price.

 

- The one thing that has confused me the most is all this talk of detachments and formations. So many acronyms. So many options. Can someone explain these to me in a straight forward way?

 

It's hard to get your head around.

 

A detachment is the force org chart of old, but gets modified depending on which book you find it in. For example: Combined arms (rulebook); Allied (rulebook); Baal Strike force (BA Codex); Flesh tearer strike force (Exterminatus) etc. An army can be made of as many detachments of as many different kinds as you choose, as long as you fulfil the compulsory unit choices indicated in the detachment, so 1HQ 2 TROOP for Combined arms, 1HQ, 2TROOP, 1ELITE for Baal Strike Force.

 

Each detachment has different stipulations to field it, and offers different bonuses.

 

Formations exist outside detachments, and are a grouping of units, that when fielded together, offer some bonus rules. Models occupying a formation do not count towards compulsory choices in a detachment, nor to the limits.

[Jolemai]

- I have the rulebook, 7th BA codex, Exterminatus and I've seen the Deathstorm rules too. Are there any other sources for BA rules?

White Dwarf 46 has a Faction: BA Formation (which can be found in Shield of Baal: Exterminatus) - review tbc

White Dwarf 47 has three exclusive Faction: BA Formations - review tbc

Shield of Baal: Leviathan has the most up to date rules for Fighter Aces - review here

Forgeworld has a lot of units that can be taken as part of a Blood Angels army. A review of them all can be found here

* That above link also has some standalone Formations (read: non Faction: BA) which we can use.

 

 

... then there's Apocalypse but that's another story :)