Mechcanius Army Split

[Captain General]

I'm interested to hear from others as the GW splitting the AdMech into two "armies" instead of treating it as one like the other forces in the 40K world. I would have thought they would have been treated as a whole united force, (allies excluded) instead they were divided in two.

 

 

 GC

[Ordo Machinum]

Reductor and Cybernetica are treated similarly in Horus Heresy. Although elements of both can be joined with the Taghmata list.

 

Maybe they thought the Admech would appeal more to players as allies, not to mention the 'double-dipping' for making two codexes than one for the rest of us cog-heads.

 

Ciao,

R.

[Frater Cornelius]

If we knew exactly what is going on in GW HQ and why, things wouldn't be half as stressful :D

[Lucien Eilam]

Under the current army building rules, there's no reason to force together any two factions that could feasible operate independently. The question these days is why should all these units be in the same codex, not why shouldn't we split them up.

 

I can think of plenty of other advantages. As a new army, it avoided having weeks go by with models but no rules, or rules but no models. It allowed them to be presented as small, obvious forces for taking as allies, easing their introduction without anyone needing to commit to a big army. And it probably strengthens their IP protection for them both to be first class factions.

[Atia]

Under the current army building rules, there's no reason to force together any two factions that could feasible operate independently. The question these days is why should all these units be in the same codex, not why shouldn't we split them up.

 

I can think of plenty of other advantages. As a new army, it avoided having weeks go by with models but no rules, or rules but no models. It allowed them to be presented as small, obvious forces for taking as allies, easing their introduction without anyone needing to commit to a big army. And it probably strengthens their IP protection for them both to be first class factions.

 

the only real answer: IP issues - they need to release the codex alongside the models, no rules without models anymore - and you can't have 2 full months releases of one army (and 7 weeks releases of a new army without a codex), so they split it up in two waves and gave each wave it's own mini-codex

 

also, ppl should stop thinking in pre-7th ways of build your army - the detachments/formations/decurion system allows for more smaller codices and flashed out mini-factions^^ at the end, both books are labbeled as adeptus mechanicus and treated as one faction

[mmimzie]

The only place this really matters is tournaments where rules are adjusted to a handfil of people taste, opinion, and a hint of 'balancing.' Such as immurstum who is kind of higher due to only be able to bring 2(?) Detachments or formations. Which which kind of silly... Isn't the point of a tournament to make the cheesiest list you can?? So how can you really have people do determine what cheese is okay and which isn't lol.

 

Anywho as was said above. It needed to be split up into two codexs. One to make more money GW and also so the models or rules weren't hanging around without the other.

 

It's not really an issue as allies and detachments allow for lots of flexibility. As I've said before its as if they released deathwing and ravenwimg DA in thier own books.

[CommodusXIII]

It's a bit annoying to me due to the lack of options.  They're hardly fleshed-out.

 

Skitarii:

 

One Troop unit with two flavors - Skitarii

One Elite unit with two flavors - Sicarians

One Fast Attack/Heavy Support unit with different flavors - Dunestriders

One additional Heavy Support unit - Dunecrawler

 

Cult Mechanicus:

 

One HQ unit - Tech-Priest Dominus

One Troop unit with two flavors - Kataphrons

One Elite unit with two flavors - Electropriests

One Heavy Support unit - Kastellans

 

Combining the two would at least yield more options for building an army.  As it stands, there's only the illusion of choice unless you go Unbound.

[mmimzie]

That's pretty in the sense that you can't really make a cad with lots of options but with the formations you have decent flexibility in how you can take all the units.

 

There is a a way to take almost every unit in both books with very little investment.

 

The only things that are tough to get for cheap would be kastelans

[CommodusXIII]

It's not really a matter of point efficiency, it's a matter of choice.

 

Take Marines or Guard for examples.  Both have multiple distinct unit choices for each category, allowing for extremely different armies.  Even Infantry Platoons and Veterans, though they often use the same base model, can be vastly different in character.  Not so with the two AdMech books - each with only a single base unit for the vast majority of their force organization charts.  Ally them together, use one of the Formations, it doesn't matter - in a cruel application of doctrine, the AdMech faction severely limits creativity by design.

 

I understand the "unit tax" levied on Formations or Decurion-style Detachments. I just wish I could build a simply CAD AdMech army with the same variety of character as the other Factions without going Unbound.  Maybe it's just my increasing exposure to 30K's Mechancum that's poisoning the well.

[Charlo]

It's a bit annoying to me due to the lack of options.  They're hardly fleshed-out.

 

Skitarii:

 

One Troop unit with two flavors - Skitarii

One Elite unit with two flavors - Sicarians

One Fast Attack/Heavy Support unit with different flavors - Dunestriders

One additional Heavy Support unit - Dunecrawler

 

Cult Mechanicus:

 

One HQ unit - Tech-Priest Dominus

One Troop unit with two flavors - Kataphrons

One Elite unit with two flavors - Electropriests

One Heavy Support unit - Kastellans

 

Combining the two would at least yield more options for building an army.  As it stands, there's only the illusion of choice unless you go Unbound.

 

Which is exactly what you should do, like Atia said - we're in 7th now, the pre 7th mentality of having a CAD and that's it is long gone.

 

The only difference when combining is that you have to take 4 troops choices - but when they are Vanguard and Katphon hardly a set back!

 

You can't go mono army with these as that isn't how they were designed. The game has changed.

[Frater Cornelius]

Yes you can, if you are a Xenos or Ultramarine that is.

[CommodusXIII]

Except if you don't like Kataphrons, for example, you're still stuck with them.  If you don't like Scouts, you can easily build a Marine army without them.  If you don't like Dire Avengers, or Wyches, or Kroot, or Gretchin, you can build armies without them.  If you don't like Kataphrons, sorry - you don't get to field Cult Mechanicus.  That's my problem with army lists with only one option.  If GW doesn't want to combine Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus, fine - at least give me just one more option, any option, to work with for these categories.

[jeffersonian000]

It's a bit annoying to me due to the lack of options. They're hardly fleshed-out.

 

Skitarii:

 

 

One Troop unit with two flavors - Skitarii

One Elite unit with two flavors - Sicarians

One Fast Attack/Heavy Support unit with different flavors - Dunestriders

One additional Heavy Support unit - Dunecrawler

Cult Mechanicus:

 

One HQ unit - Tech-Priest Dominus

One Troop unit with two flavors - Kataphrons

One Elite unit with two flavors - Electropriests

One Heavy Support unit - Kastellans

Combining the two would at least yield more options for building an army. As it stands, there's only the illusion of choice unless you go Unbound.

Add a Knight, snd you got yourself a Convocation. <queues music>

 

SJ

[mmimzie]

Except if you don't like Kataphrons, for example, you're still stuck with them.  If you don't like Scouts, you can easily build a Marine army without them.  If you don't like Dire Avengers, or Wyches, or Kroot, or Gretchin, you can build armies without them.  If you don't like Kataphrons, sorry - you don't get to field Cult Mechanicus.  That's my problem with army lists with only one option.  If GW doesn't want to combine Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus, fine - at least give me just one more option, any option, to work with for these categories.

Formations do exist. cohort cybernetica lets you get kastelans and a domi if that is your wish. Or you can cut your kataphron tax in half and wave the domi fees with the elimination maniple. So thier are options and pretty good ones at that. So if you want kastalans you can either take 2 units of katas and a domi, a unit of katas, or a domi and two units of kastelans. It's really not so cut and dry.

 

Same is true for skits. If you want infiltrators you could skip the vanguards and get ruststalkers. If you want a ballistarii you could get 2 dragoon instead of vanguards. I mean it's really not so limiting, and i'd say most the units (ignoring electro priest here and i've yet to bother with stalkers) are good so any tax isn't soooo bad. 

 

Now if your issue is really wanting a CAD really bad than your kinda limited, and again if your play with immersturm your kinda screwed ^.^. 

[Atia]

Guys, also keep in mind they can't release all stuff at once - think back at Tau, or even better Necrons - Necrons only got really flashed out 2 (?) editions ago - with alot of new units and special characters - the same will happen with Adeptus Mechanicus in the future - you can't compare a new army with ~6 weeks of releases to Space Marines^^

 

(and tbh, we got a lot of stuff for ad mec in the last two waves - if i remember the release of codex chaos daemons right, we also just got 3 plastic units, 4 metal units, 4 special characters - with Ad Mec we got 7 plastic units for skitarii and 5 plastic units and a plastic character for cult - both factions got a big thing (Soulgrinder and Onager Dunecrawler), the only difference is that chaos daemons used some old metal units back then too - and don't forget Ad Mec bound Knights and FW units ...)