Rate every HH novel you have read either as good or not good

[b1soul]

No number system...just a binary score of "good" or "not good".

 

"Not good" would cover the range from utter garbage to middling/acceptable.

 

I'll start...

 

Horus Rising: Good

False Gods: Good

Galaxy in Flames: Good

Flight of the Eisenstein: NG

Fulgrim: NG (could not finish...IH getting curb-stomped at every turn)

Descent: NG (could not finish)

Legion: Good

Abyss: NG (could not finish)

Mechanicum: Unread

Fallen Angels: Unread

A Thousand Sons: Good

Nemesis: NG (could not finish)

First Heretic: Good

Prospero Burns: Good

The Outcast Dead: NG (could not finish)

Deliverance Lost: NG (could not finish)

Know No Fear: Good

Fear to Tread: NG (finished with struggle)

Angel Exterminatus: NG (could not finish)

Betrayer: Good

Vulkan Lives: NG (could not finish...close to unread)

UE: Good

Scars: Good

Vengeful: Unread

Pythos: Unread

Deathfire: Unread

[Grotsmasha]

I have had no issue with any of the novels bar Nemisis, so 

 

Nemesis: Bad

The Rest: Good

[b1soul]

Battle of the Abyss? Descent of Angels?

[Loesh]

Being an Emperors Children fanboy, I suppose it's not surprising I actually liked Fulgrim a lot. 

[Mellow]

I have read every book in the series (all the ones in the front of every novel, in that order) and I rate all the books as good.

 

The only exception is Mark of Calth which I haven't been able to finish as it rambled too much for my liking. Too much tunnel and underground war for a doomed planet that I don't personally care about.

[Olis]

Don't you think a binary rating system of review is lacking in scope? Seeing as everyone has opinions ranging from 'nearly the same' to 'utterly different' to other people's, surely placing publications into one of two camps is pointless. It doesn't delve into why people like or do not like something and ultimately boils down to personal preference. For example, some people like Fear to Tread. Some do not. Is it because of their opinion of the subjects, Blood Angels? Or did they not like the prose? Simply lumping it into a good/not good grouping doesn't exactly promote constructive discussion. Hell, even a five star system, I believe, is simplistic when it comes to accurately assessing whether or not a product is any good. 

 

How about we talk about why certain books deserve the good/not good label and dispense with lazy list making?

[Grotsmasha]

Battle of the Abyss? Descent of Angels?

 

I am not a picky reader, and to date the only book I could not finish was Lysander's SMB novel (I buy almost every BL Novel, and have right from their first Ghosts and Gotrek & Fekix novels), I couldn't even finish the first Chapter.....Honestly, Nemisis is the only book I intend on skipping on my re-read of the series.

[Loesh]

Which is kind of odd, i'v never read Nemesis but i'v heard mixed things. Which sort of confuses me since it's said in the same breath as A Thousand Sons due to both being the first and second NYT best sellers in the Horus Heresy.

[Kol Saresk]

Which is kind of odd, i'v never read Nemesis but i'v heard mixed things. Which sort of confuses me since it's said in the same breath as A Thousand Sons due to both being the first and second NYT best sellers in the Horus Heresy.

It's a rather strange story. At the time of its release, the idea of a full-length novel about the Assassinorum was highly appealing. And the fact it was set in the Horus Heresy? Even better.

 

So when it released, it sold like pancakes at Ihop.

 

However, it didn't match the typical 40K prose and had a rather simple plot that ended up bouncing around all over the place. Kind of like a season arc in Heroes. So a lot of people were then "eh" about it. So while the super-hype caused it to be a best-seller, there were still those who weren't impressed.

[Loesh]

 

Which is kind of odd, i'v never read Nemesis but i'v heard mixed things. Which sort of confuses me since it's said in the same breath as A Thousand Sons due to both being the first and second NYT best sellers in the Horus Heresy.

It's a rather strange story. At the time of its release, the idea of a full-length novel about the Assassinorum was highly appealing. And the fact it was set in the Horus Heresy? Even better.

 

So when it released, it sold like pancakes at Ihop.

 

However, it didn't match the typical 40K prose and had a rather simple plot that ended up bouncing around all over the place. Kind of like a season arc in Heroes. So a lot of people were then "eh" about it. So while the super-hype caused it to be a best-seller, there were still those who weren't impressed.

 

 

Ahhh, so it's kind of like Fear to Tread where you would of had to messed it up monumentally for it to not sell because it was about the Blood Angels.

 

...Come to think of it, both of them are written by James Swallow.

[Kol Saresk]

Pretty much.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

because I like lazy lists

Great, Good, Meh, Bad, Terrible

 

Horus Rising: Great
False Gods: Good
Galaxy in Flames: Meh
Flight of the Eisenstein: Meh
Fulgrim: Meh
Descent: Terrible

Legion: Good
Abyss: Terrible
Mechanicum: Meh
Fallen Angels: Terrible
A Thousand Sons: Bad
Nemesis: Meh
First Heretic: Great
Prospero Burns: Great
The Outcast Dead: Bad
Deliverance Lost: Bad
Know No Fear: Good
Fear to Tread: Bad
Angel Exterminatus: Bad
Betrayer: Great
Vulkan Lives: Bad
UE: Good
Scars: Good
Vengeful: Bad
Pythos: Terrible
Deathfire: Terrible

 

 

WLK 

[deathspectersgt7]

Horus Rising, Scars, UE were the only ones I say were Good. Liked the Outcast dead because of the Thunder Warriors in it. The rest were Meh.

[b1soul]

Don't you think a binary rating system of review is lacking in scope? Seeing as everyone has opinions ranging from 'nearly the same' to 'utterly different' to other people's, surely placing publications into one of two camps is pointless. It doesn't delve into why people like or do not like something and ultimately boils down to personal preference. For example, some people like Fear to Tread. Some do not. Is it because of their opinion of the subjects, Blood Angels? Or did they not like the prose? Simply lumping it into a good/not good grouping doesn't exactly promote constructive discussion. Hell, even a five star system, I believe, is simplistic when it comes to accurately assessing whether or not a product is any good. 

 

How about we talk about why certain books deserve the good/not good label and dispense with lazy list making?

Sure...the idea was to see whether people had an overall positive experience with the HH series, from their subjective perspective. If they want to elaborate, that would be great

[Jareddm]

At this point I feel a list that leaves out novellas and anthologies is leaving out a significant chunk of the Heresy.

[Grey Angel]

Fear to Tread - very bad

Nemesis - bad

Battle for the Abyss - bad

Every other novel - good

[Tymell]

It feels odd rating things as just "good" or "not good", there's a big range of shades between...but I appreciate the intent of the thread, so here goes (novels only):

 

Horus Rising - good

Fulgrim - good

Legion - good

Mechanicum - good

A Thousand Sons - good

The First Heretic - good

Prospero Burns - good

Deliverance Lost - good

Know No Fear - good

Fear to Tread - good

Betrayer - good

Scars - good

Vengeful Spirit - good

The Damnation of Pythos - good

 

False Gods - not good

Galaxy in Flames - not good

Flight of the Eisenstein - not good

Descent of Angels - not good

Fallen Angels - not good

Battle For the Abyss - not good

Nemesis - not good

The Outcast Dead - not good

Angel Exterminatus - not good

Vulkan Lives - not good

Unremembered Empire - not good

Deathfire - not good

 

Some of those "not goods" were at least okay, but in all cases nothing special at best.

[b1soul]

I find it odd that the same guy who gave us ATS also gave us Outcast Dead. McNeill has some good ideas...for instance his stronger but less stable Thunder Warriors are more interesting than TW inferior to SM in every way...but his prose ranges from really bad to OK

[HeritorA]

There are 5 masterpieces where -

Horus Rising;

Galaxy in Flames;

Thousand Sons;

The First Heretic;

Betrayer;  

 

5 good books  - 

Flight of the Eisenstein;

Legion;

Know no Fear;

Mechanicum;

Scars 

 

and a lot of abominations - which is every other HH book 

[Tymell]

I find it odd that the same guy who gave us ATS also gave us Outcast Dead. McNeill has some good ideas...for instance his stronger but less stable Thunder Warriors are more interesting than TW inferior to SM in every way...but his prose ranges from really bad to OK

Yeah, I'm going through Outcast Dead again at the moment (audio book this time), and I'm noticing more issues with his writing this time around. There are too many unnecessary lines, parts that add nothing and just detract from the flow. He's not the worst author for it, but it's there, and combined with issues like Atharva being too much of an author's pet and the infamous chronology flub, I feel McNeill's works would benefit from a firmer editor. He has some good ideas, but other things need to be trimmed.

 

All in all, for me he's hit and miss. Some of his stuff is great, some is dross, but even the bad usually has good aspects and the good has weak parts.

[Hérétíc]

Hi chaps, I have read all of the novels and to be honest, the only ones that really hit me right in the 'ooh that book didn't deliver' are; The Damnation of Pythos and Deathfire.

 

My favourite I think was Prospero Burns.

[daveNYC]

Horus Rising: Good.  I was there when Horus killed the Emperor.  You have to wonder how psyched he was to type that line.

False Gods: Good.  Keeping the story going, sets up story hooks for Prospero.

Galaxy in Flames: Good.

Flight of the Eisenstein: Meh.  Doesn't really go anywhere.  You do get to see Mortarion a bit, which is nice.

Fulgrim: Good.  Shows an entire legion going down the tubes.

Descent: Bad.  Worse, boring.  SPOILERS: Did you know that the DA were from Caliban and fought a lot of nasty animals?  Then they went into space, their boss got moody for REASONS! and sent half of them home for REASONS!.  I'm sure it all works out for the best though.

Legion: Good.  It's a good story with interesting characters and solid primarch interaction.  The bad news is that the perpetuals and the idea that the Alpha Legion is behind everything ever have been beaten to death ever since.

Abyss: Meh/bad.  An interesting premise, just a bit of a slog.  Also doesn't really advance the overall plot of the Heresy.

Mechanicum: Meh/bad.  Main character is a Mary Sue.  Ending just sort of trails off.

Fallen Angels: Bad.  Hey, we're writing a DA series but we have no idea where to go with it.

A Thousand Sons: Good stuff.  Hope, hubris, tragedy, Magnus.

Nemesis: Bad.  Who are these guys?  Why do I care?  Oh I see, they're nobodies and I don't.  

First Heretic: Good.  Damn good.  Get to see how the whole mess got started.  

Prospero Burns: Didn't like, I can see why some did though.  Too reliant on dubious adjectives and 'alpha male/apex predator' lingo.  Guys, we get it, they're called Space Wolves, that doesn't mean that every description of them should be animal related.  Also, very little face time with Russ.

The Outcast Dead: Bad.  Everyone was a Mary Sue.

Deliverance Lost: Horrible.  Destroyed the entire tragedy of Corax.  Not to mention the most overt use of "I am Alpharius" and the new and improved super space marines.

Know No Fear: Not bad.  Guilliman was interesting.  Shooting a sun won't make it poisonous, they needed to handwave that with either warp magic or Dark Age tech.

Fear to Tread: Snoozefest.

Angel Exterminatus: Not bad, it actually fleshed out Perturabo as a non-moron, something prior books hadn't done.  Emperor's Children are sooo off the rails though, you wonder how they're even capable of being a semi-effective fighting force.  Say what you will about the World Eaters, at least they're going to go kill someone.  The EC aren't going to make it ten feet before they start humping each other's legs.

Betrayer: Better than bacon.  

Vulkan Lives: An eyestabbingly bad read.  A huge potential for interaction between two very dissimilar primarchs, squandered on snuff porn.

UE: Meh, tainted by being tied into the Vulkan story.

Scars: Good.  Except for the one guy who managed to be the only character ever who spoke broken English (Gothic).  

Vengeful Spirit: Bad.  The mission itself made no sense, and no overall plot made sense.  Mortarion has gone way off the rails in a way that doesn't mesh with ATS or even Scars (where he's gone off the rails a bit).  Also had too much 'Chaos wins because REASONS!'.  I get it, it's magic, but you can't just bust it out that often.

[Loesh]

 

 

Angel Exterminatus: Not bad, it actually fleshed out Perturabo as a non-moron, something prior books hadn't done.  Emperor's Children are sooo off the rails though, you wonder how they're even capable of being a semi-effective fighting force.  Say what you will about the World Eaters, at least they're going to go kill someone.  The EC aren't going to make it ten feet before they start humping each other's legs.

 

 

 

Eh, never had that much trouble figuring out why the Emperors Children are dangerous. Sure they descend into anarchy now and again, but they band together whenever it serves the greater pleasure, though initially the breaking of the Legion is pretty rough. I tend to view Warbands/Warhosts like wandering artists, using each others talents to enhance their work...even if that work is liquefying an entire planet into combat stims.

 

See: The Shattering, where several hundred Noise Marines came together to break down the infrastructure of an entire Craftworld in one psycho-sonic blast.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

"Better than bacon"

 

Possibly the best commentary I've ever heard.

 

WLK

[Jareddm]

Vengeful Spirit: Bad.  The mission itself made no sense, and no overall plot made sense.  Mortarion has gone way off the rails in a way that doesn't mesh with ATS or even Scars (where he's gone off the rails a bit).  Also had too much 'Chaos wins because REASONS!'.  I get it, it's magic, but you can't just bust it out that often.

 

Exactly why the novellas and short story anthologies are just as important as the novels, and ignoring them, especially this past year, is just going to make people more and more confused.