IL XIV - The Dune Serpents

[Grifftofer]

I think part of the problem is that they are very similar to regular Assault marines. There's nothing that really suggests that they are an elite unit either by improved statline or special rules. I think that giving the basic guys 2 attacks, and the sergeant +1WS/A would help. Also how attached to the chainswords are you? If you were to give them something like Chainaxes or Heavy chainswords it would further differentiate them from your regular guys.

[bluntblade]

As far as the fluff goes they're quite keen on their axes. The more brutal and scarier it is, the better.

[Big Bad Squig]

Yeah I think I'll add axes as a more prominent option - I seem to remember Nachash having an axe now I think about it, so I'll probably give him a unique weapon actually.  I'll add +1 ws to the sergeant, but I'm not sure about giving the regular guys an extra attack given that that would mean 4 attacks per guy on the charge.  Other than that, do the points costs look ok?

[bluntblade]

Yeah, that neat Persian axe I showed you

[Big Bad Squig]

That'll be really fun to model if/when I get around to it.

[Big Bad Squig]

Next up, we've got the Shamshir - I tried to make them as close to the fluff as possible, but I'm not sure that I haven't gone overboard with rules/cost.  I was thinking of making the cloaking field give them +1 to their cover save as them having a 5+ invulnerable that's conditional but a 5+ cover that pretty much isn't (due to smoke grenades) seemed unnecessary.

 

ELITES – Shamshir Raiders (280 points)

 

             Name                   WS          BS          S           T           W          I          A          Ld          Sv

     Shamshir Raider           5             4            4           4            2          4          2           9           3+

         Sharal’dirah               5             4            4           4            2          4          3           9           3+

 

Unit Composition

- 4 Shamshir Raiders

- 1 Sharal’dirah

 

Unit Type

 - Shamshir Raider: Infantry

 - Sharal’dirah: Infantry (Character)

 

Wargear

 - Power Armour

 - Charnabal Sabre (Shamshir Raiders only)

 - Sharibalddam (Sharal’dirah only)

 - Frag and Smoke Grenades

 - Primitive Cloaking Field

 - Heavy Boltcarbine

 

 

Special Rules

 - Legiones Astartes (Dune Serpents)

 - Assassinate

 

Options

 - May take up to 5 additional Shamshir Raiders for +40 points per model.

 - The unit may take Melta Bombs for +50 points.

 - Any Shamshir Raider may replace their Charnabal Sabre with a Power Sword for +5 points per model.

 - The Sharal’dirah may upgrade his Power Armour to Artificer Armour for +10 points.

 

-          Primitive Cloaking Field:  If they did not move, run or charge during their turn, a unit with Primitive Cloaking Fields gains a 5+ invulnerable save until the start of their next turn.  Additionally, Primitive Cloaking Fields provide the Deep Strike special rule.

 

-          Heavy Boltcarbine: 

Range          Strength          AP                              Type

   18"                  4                 4                             Assault 2

 

-          Assassinate:  Before deployment, select one Independent Character in the opposing player’s army.  Units of Shamshir Raiders gain the Preferred Enemy special rule when target that model and their unit.

 

Kraken 

 

Range          Strength          AP                              Type

    -                  +2                 2                 Melee, Unwieldy, Master Crafted

 

That also brings up the issue of smoke grenades vs shroud bombs - smoke grenades are something I cooked up over a year ago because I didn't really see how shroud bombs worked as representing a smoke grenade.  I still don't really (if they are actually meant to be smoke grenades), and I was planning on including smoke grenades as a wargear option.  The latest version of them I could find is here:

 

Smoke grenades:

During the shooting phase, instead of firing one of its weapons, a model may use a smoke grenade. Place a small blast marker anywhere within 8" of the firer. It then scatters 2D6 inches minus the firer's ballistic skill. Alternatively, the marker can be placed directly over the firer. It does not scatter if dropped in this manner. Either way, anything within or being targeted through the blast marker gain a 5+ cover save. The marker is treated as difficult terrain for movement and charging purposes. These effects cease at the start of the next friendly shooting phase.

 

As you can see they're a bit unwieldy in terms of rules.  So, the question is, should I just use shroud bombs in place of smoke grenades (and if so would it take up a wargear slot?), should I keep the old smoke grenade rules, or should I use smoke grenades but refine their rules?

Edited November 29, 2016 by Big Bad Squig

[Grifftofer]

The Shamshir look pretty good to me.

 

As for the smoke grenades, simplest option would be to just give them Shroud Bombs. But I think tweaking your rules to make them run smoother might be a more interesting option. The big problem for me is the throwing the grenade and placing a template of smoke. It works, but in general I would expect the smoke grenades to be used to protect specific units. So I think that using them allows you to give a 5+ cover save to one unit within 8", or the unit the model is in (plus the counts as difficult terrain bit) and the effects would last until the beginning of the player's next turn.

 

You could also expand it so that you can throw them at an enemy unit in range so that any unit they shoot at gets a 5+ cover save, but they gain the benefits of the difficult terrain to charge them... I think that can be written out in a short, simple way, I'm just not yet awake enough to do it ;)

[Nomus Sardauk]

Expanding on your idea on using the Smoke Bombs offensively, perhaps instead of giving anyone they shoot a 5+ Cover Save why not have it so they're afflicted by the Night Fighting rules for that turn so they have to roll to determine if they can see anything before they can shoot?

[simison]

Pardon my ignorance, but which units is supposed to be the Dune Serpent elite unit? And what aspects do the other special units represent?

[bluntblade]

They're both meant to be elites, but with very different specialities.

[Grifftofer]

One thing I've just noticed (can't believe I missed it before) is that the Shamshir don't have any ranged weapons, not even a pistol. I think I recall someone mentioning Volkite Serpentas for them, is that still a thing?

[bluntblade]

They were meant to have rifles at some stage

[bluntblade]

Say Squig, did the Shamshir and Dursk Rassan get sorted out?

[bluntblade]

Also, I might try and think up a description and arsenal for Timur over the next couple of days.

 

Thinking he should be built up from a Dursk Rassan or Shamshir set-up, with Destroyer weapons but also some additional stealthy gubbins

Edited November 27, 2016 by bluntblade

[Big Bad Squig]

Oh sorry, I forgot to reply to this thread. I'm not sure about what to do with the Shamshir shooting - should I leave them with volkite serpentas or try and come up with a unique rifle for them?

[simison]

Oh sorry, I forgot to reply to this thread. I'm not sure about what to do with the Shamshir shooting - should I leave them with volkite serpentas or try and come up with a unique rifle for them?

 

Honestly, my mind came up with carbines. Since the Rassan are melee-oriented, I'd give the Shamshir a better ranged option than simple pistols.  

[Big Bad Squig]

It's interesting that you say carbines, because my first thought was something akin to shardcarbines that the dark eldar have. I'll try and put some thoughts to paper tonight.

[bluntblade]

Rifles/carbines fit your original fluff better, I think

[simison]

It's interesting that you say carbines, because my first thought was something akin to shardcarbines that the dark eldar have. I'll try and put some thoughts to paper tonight.

 

Hmmmm, maybe I'm becoming a psyker.

[Big Bad Squig]

Right, so I've added a Heavy Boltcarbine to the Shamshir Raiders - I based it on the shardcarbine but went with lower AP but lower volume of shots, because I figured it fitted better with the Shamshir's role in picking out specific targets to hunt down.  Thoughts?  Is it ok as it is, should it be weaker with more shots or stronger with maybe Rending or something?

 

Also, I realised I needed to rework smoke grenades as well.  So, based on you guys' advice, the new version is looking like this:

 

Smoke grenades:

During the shooting phase, instead of firing one of its weapons, a model may use a smoke grenade.  To do so, pick one friendly unit within 8" of the firer (note that this may be the firer's own unit).  This unit gains a 6+ cover save, but counts as moving through Difficult Terrain; both of these effects cease at the start of the next friendly player turn.  Note that only one model per unit may use smoke grenades per turn.

 

Reasoning for the 6+ instead of 5+ is that the LA rule for Serpents already gives +1 to existing cover saves (except stealth/shrouded) so it means that bigger things i.e. vehicles are easier to see through smoke than single marines.  What do you think?

[bluntblade]

Do you have an idea of what you'd alter Lawrence's name to? I'm liking the idea of sub-Antarctic salt plains more and more for the origin point of the nascent XIVth, as such flat expanses will give them a somewhat different character to the Legion they become

[Big Bad Squig]

I'm thinking just following the pattern of replacing vowels with 'y's. Maybe Lawrynce? I'm not really sure how to make it work. And yeah, the salt plains could explain the emphasis on mobility in some of the legion's units, or alternatively the more assault focused wings of the serpents. On that note, did you have an idea about the development of the Durrsk Rassan/Shamshir and what sort of organisation within the legion they were (I.e company, something more similar to a warrior lodge, etc)? I'm starting to write the organisation sections for the serpents and that might be included.

[Nomus Sardauk]

You could change it to Lorenz maybe.

[bluntblade]

I'm thinking just following the pattern of replacing vowels with 'y's. Maybe Lawrynce? I'm not really sure how to make it work. And yeah, the salt plains could explain the emphasis on mobility in some of the legion's units, or alternatively the more assault focused wings of the serpents. On that note, did you have an idea about the development of the Durrsk Rassan/Shamshir and what sort of organisation within the legion they were (I.e company, something more similar to a warrior lodge, etc)? I'm starting to write the organisation sections for the serpents and that might be included.

I'd go with a company for the Dursk Rassan. Officially the same might apply to the Shamshir, but they tend to operate in squads or smaller numbers.

Edited December 14, 2016 by bluntblade

[Azorius]

How about usage of hallucinogens, weather control agents(think canon Night Lords Exemplary Battles) and communication disruptors(jamming, blocking, computer virus, data djinn etc.) for XIVth Legion?