Legion Troops types Tactica talk

[Hesh Kadesh]

Tac Squads have a single use. Maybe 2, in CC heavy builds, but that is rare that they find a better use out of them as opposed to a CC veteran squad or elite, some of which score as well.

 

They hold objectives. Or they go full Rage mode and suicide into enemy lines as Sons of Horus, World Eaters and Night Lords.

 

To hold objectives, they need to survive. You can either throw points and resources at it, like an Apothecary and 20 man blob squads; or you can save those 110pts and slap them in a Rhino making the enemy divert value expensive AT fire power that would otherwise target things like Dreads, Vindis, Venators or Typhons into stopping 11 Bolters from moving about and scoring objectives while immune to enemies small arms fire.

 

A 20 man tac squad costs 300+ points when bulked up. I can spend a little bit more and render that expense useless, fill my minimum required and get a swing of 6 Victory Points in my favour.

 

Breachers are incredoble, especially when scouting thanks to a vigilator. The meta generally has turmed towards combat rather than shooting, so a unit that can infiltrate to within 12-18" with a close range weapon is incredible, especially when that weapon is a Blast Haywire weapon which causes difficult dangerous terrain and they come equipped with defensive grenades and a 5++ in combat.

 

Recon Squads are a Scoring unit that might be decent if not Support Squad. As it is, relegated to Acute Senses Meltabombing or Going to Ground in terrain for a 2+ Cover and hoping a Dreadnought does appear. Should only really be left in power armour.

 

Assault Squads are body count boosters for elite assault units or tie up enemies breaking through in ongoing combats. At 280pts, they bring 10 Power Weapon Attacks (13 in the case of WE/SoH) and have a late game Objective secured Jump+Run.

 

Special Weapons are special weapons. Podded meltas are AV12 killers, espexially as few people take turreted Interceptor counters for the Drop Pod; they aren't flyers, so skyfire isn't an issue (so Kheres/Deredeo/Tarantulas are no problem), and Heavy Weapons are a; in a minority and b: even more so on things like Autocannons or Missile Launchers.

 

Flamers and Plasma have their own distinct targets (DG having fun with the former) while IH's Grav Weapons in a Head of the Gorgon joined by a Vigilator kills vehicles with ease.

[Fangbanger]

i have spent quite a bit of time running 15-20 man tac squads in spartans with mixed results

 

pros:

they are great to overwhelm a unit

being world eaters its a huge amount of attacks on the charge

they can bog down key targets 

they are great at shielding Angron

 

cons:

are quite lack luster against anything but other tac squads

if your transport is blown, its a long old walk out in the open

the amount of wounds inflicted can be quite disappointing for that amount of dice as normal saves can be taken

if the transport is wrecked or blown, its a bitch to try and get them all in or around the wrecked/exploded vehicle

you will very rarely get it so everyone can attack at the same time

once you wipe a unit out, you have a large footprint begging for Scorpius, thud gun or sunfury fire

 

Its fun and very thematic doing it, however often disappointing. putting characters such as chaplains in are great for fearless and re-rolls or a primarch for protection. considering troops are the only thing that can score generally, smaller unit in rhinos are the way to go and let your more badass units do the heavy hitting.

 

never run them with boltguns though so cant really comment on fury's or using them as supporting fire 

[Sheesh Mode]

Recon squads.. what for? Don't get it. Especially cause they are a support choice.

 

Infiltrating nuncio voxs for your dreadclaws, lightning strike fighters, terminators, Assault Claws, and the like. 

[Lord Blackwood]

So what im getting here is the most likely build is 10 tac marines in a rhino  meant to sit on  an objective ?  
20 marines walking are too squishy?

[Slips]

Depends on how hard your area is. The more competitive the more the statement is true.

[Lord Blackwood]

thats a touch unfortunate  , though understandable It is a game built on the skeleton of 40k after all. 

 

[helterskelter]

In lower points non Lord of war games tac blobs could be a mare to shift. The minute you get to play with Low not so fun. Typhon can blast them out of cover, a stormblade can make 2 kinds of mess out of them.

The 15+ cc armed in a spartan seems like it could be quite a thorn

[Marshal Loss]

I don't think Tacticals are worth putting in a Spartan unless you're one of those few Legions (World Eaters, Night Lords, SoH) who get large bonuses either in cc when outnumbering or aimed at turning tactical marines into monsters. It's an expensive delivery system for a non-elite cc unit.

 

But yeah tactical blobs don't really work. There are so many ways to slaughter infantry in 30k, it's kind of what the setting is about - destruction (fun!) on a huge scale. Armies rarely survive intact and it generally isn't the troops choices doing the work (with a few exceptions)

[RandomMarine]

10 man in rhino's everytime

10 man in rhino's everytime

[Brofist]

Some legions can do blobs and they shine when used in moderation or saturation. Rhinos are fine, but since you can't score inside of it the points will be wasted in some Age of Darkness missions or for backfield objective campers. It really depends on your meta though. If you regularly play against artillery lists you'll have a bad day.

[Gorgoff]

10 man in rhino's everytime10 man in rhino's everytime

Depends.

- How much points.

- How's your Meta.

- AoD or rulebook CAD.

- Which Legion

I play lot of 1500 point games against 40K armies. There ya need 10 man squads in Rhinos. ;)

[01RTB01]

Oddly I'm looking forwards to running kakophoni as troops once book 6 lands. It'll depend on the limits. I know kakophoni are sub par but with relentless and being troops they may be worth a shot.

 

Regards the palatines, I run mine with jump packs and eidolon or out of a Spartan and purely rending. Volume of attacks tends to shred what they charge and I for one don't see the need for the upgraded weapons.

[RandomMarine]

Iron hands using AOD and head of the Gorgon for out flank and stubborn in deployment zone. I also always equip Havocs or HB

[1000 Sons]

They really need to make infantry much more survivable.  The first two books was really troop focused and interesting, the more books they release it is becoming fast forward 40k.  In 3 years it has turned into a game of big pie plate template super heavies that make the legion specific units worthless and push a more legion generic lists with different pain jobs.

[Ishagu]

In my Heresy list I run two squads of 10 Tacticals in Rhinos.

I wouldn't run blobs due to lack of mobility and survivability. Only Iron Hands can get away with this, imo...

[stang]

In my Heresy list I run two squads of 10 Tacticals in Rhinos.

I wouldn't run blobs due to lack of mobility and survivability. Only Iron Hands can get away with this, imo...

What about Infiltrating Tact blobs from the Alpha Legion or Raven Guard (who also have fleet)?

[Ishagu]

 

 

In my Heresy list I run two squads of 10 Tacticals in Rhinos.

I wouldn't run blobs due to lack of mobility and survivability. Only Iron Hands can get away with this, imo...

What about Infiltrating Tact blobs from the Alpha Legion or Raven Guard (who also have fleet)?

Yeah, an exception can be made for infiltrating or outflanking squads.Terror Squads with Volkites function well, too. You want to be in effective shooting or potential assaulting range before your numbers are heavily depleted.

Slow moving, large Marine blobs don't function in 30 or 40k. The Iron Hands are that much more survivable, however - so they can be run in such a way.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

In my Heresy list I run two squads of 10 Tacticals in Rhinos.

I wouldn't run blobs due to lack of mobility and survivability. Only Iron Hands can get away with this, imo...

What about Infiltrating Tact blobs from the Alpha Legion or Raven Guard (who also have fleet)?

Yeah, an exception can be made for infiltrating or outflanking squads.Terror Squads with Volkites function well, too. You want to be in effective shooting or potential assaulting range before your numbers are heavily depleted.

Slow moving, large Marine blobs don't function in 30 or 40k. The Iron Hands are that much more survivable, however - so they can be run in such a way.

Depends.

- How much points.

- How's your Meta.

- AoD or rulebook CAD.

- Which Legion ;)

I play Iron Warriors and I like big units. They work quiet well for me. As I meantioned it depends on which kind of list you play and which unit they belong to. Warriors have to be killed to the last man if you want an objective they're sitting on. Sure, you can eliminate 'em in cc but if you have to shoot them then you'll have to invest quiet some firepower to do so because they won't run away. In addition you could add a Vigilator giving them scout or put them in a Bastion with an escape hatch. First turn they get out up to 18" deep in the neutral or even the opponents deployment zone. That'll give 'em some kind of mobility and makes them much more effektive.

It's all about thinking "out of the box". ;)

[Lunar Centurion]

For a tournament where you can't take doubles of any FW unit, what troops do you recommend for Luna Wolves? I was thinking a DS list with an Assault squad and a Tactical squad, but I'm not really sure, so can you guys help me?

[Hesh Kadesh]

They really need to make infantry much more survivable. The first two books was really troop focused and interesting, the more books they release it is becoming fast forward 40k. In 3 years it has turned into a game of big pie plate template super heavies that make the legion specific units worthless and push a more legion generic lists with different pain jobs.

The typhon, medusa, grav rapier, quad rapier, plasma pred, melta pred, and caestus were all released in Book 1 though alonside a Nuncio.

 

The Master of Signal was nerfed, as was the Moritat.

 

Sure, the Scorpius came in Book 2, but it didn't really do much that wasn't in already. D3+1 s8 ap3 barrages are nice, but in a meta intended to kill MEQ's, "even more" MEQ killing power is hardly necessary.

 

Plus, combine with the fact that for the most part, vehicles are cheaper monetarily, and more expensive in game points at times (points per pound), that it is inevitable that as the hobby expands, vehicles become better.

 

In Book 2, Infantry was King, because Iron hands, then people started getting tired of losing a shooting game to those which were more resilient. Big high strength low ap pie plates that as an added bonus ignores cover simply became the answer to removing them.

 

So you can blame the current meta on the amount of infantry models around.

 

If you want infantry action, play Zone Mortalis. No need to use Blood in the Void. The limits on zone mortalis points can be ignored if you play on larger tables.

[Caillum]

Plus, combine with the fact that for the most part, vehicles are cheaper monetarily, and more expensive in game points at times (points per pound), that it is inevitable that as the hobby expands, vehicles become better.

Funny you should mention Points Per Pound, as I'm working on that right now. :)

[norngahl]

Unfortunately it's easier and cheaper to bring a counter than infantry.. especially as troops can hardly handle any kind of armour.

 

Around 300 points for a blob is easily countered by a scorpius, magna melta or plasma deredeo.. while the rests get wiped by any weapon with no better target.. considering the fact, that there is no rather cheap 20 men transport like the mechanicum has, why pump another 200-300 points into a troop choice, that does little damage in return.. you are looking at 530+ points to make tacticals work. Hum.

 

If there was a drop pod with 20 men capability that doesn't cost 260 points, but rather 130.. I'd think about it.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, low ap blast weapons are so common now, and so cheap.

A 20 man tac blob with an Apothecary is only 40 points less than a Typhon.

It won't do very well when those 7" ignore cover blasts start dropping down.

 

The Humble Rhino is the only way to run Tacs who can't scout, infiltrate or outflank.

 

It's also why I think the Ultramarines rite of war is utter trash. Limiting the armour, deployment and transports whilst forcing you to run slow Tacticals on foot. It's particularly bad in a game that sees extensive use of Scorpius tanks and other artillery that can even be taken in squadrons. Garbage, garbage garbage.

[GreyCrow]

EDIT : Didn't see the other thread -_-