noigrim Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What would you put in 190pts for dealing with predators? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 3x Thuddgun aka Quadmortars. If possible each in an own elite slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4186795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 How about a sicaran venator? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4186798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 These are rather for shutting down superheavies, as their special ability is making them fire snapshots. I mean 12 Shots rerolling armour penetration OR 2 S10 shots ordnance.. You cannot beat Thuddguns in AT VS armour 13 and less.. and they are cheap as hell AND offer 4 plates for anti infantry as well ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4186802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah but they need 5' to glance a predator and the venator glances at 3' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4186804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah but sunder lets you reroll the penetration roll.. 12 shots, 8 hits with rerolls will result in say 1 penetrating hit and 3 glances (4,4 hullpoints in total), while the venator gives you say 1 hullpoint and make the tank fireing snap shots.. thats great for superheavies, but not for dealing with Predators.. you want them destroyed and not just shooting bad.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4186807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 These are rather for shutting down superheavies, as their special ability is making them fire snapshots. I mean 12 immobile shots S8 rerolling armour penetration that can be locked in combat OR 2 fast moving S10 shots ordnance with +2 on the pen chart You cannot beat Thuddguns in AT VS armour 13 and less.. and they are cheap as hell AND offer 4 plates for anti infantry as well Fixed it for you. Ideally you don't want just the hammer or the anvil you want the balance of both. Thudd guns are great dice throwers but the they get stymied by LoS issues. Venators are great at neutering but lack the dice potential. Look at the rest of your list and see what you need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4186892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Thanks for the fix.. but than we should go deeper and include the usual cover, making a mortar effectively a 6 wounds unit (1 member standing before the mortar, giving it an additional wound with t7), t7 making it immune to luckshots which the venator isn't and they are immune to weapon destroyed results or crew shaken ones as well.. IMO, the mortars get my money beside dealing with any AV14/superheavies.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4187119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 IMO, the mortars get my money beside dealing with any AV14/superheavies..Agreed. I love the Sicaran Venator for shutting down Super-heavies, but Quad Mortars are just amazing. Give it time and people will start to face them a lot more (with actual models available now), and you'll probably have others agreeing with us. For the 190 points that the OP is asking about, the only other thing I can think of is a pair of Javelins Landspeeders with Typhoons, multi-meltas and 2 HKMs each. That's 4 twin-linked BS4 shots and 4 normal BS4 shots at Strength 8, into their Rear Armour. 6 hits, 1 Glance, 3 Pens. And then add in the 2 multi-meltas! If you like Fast Attack, ie. Emperor's Children or Sons of Horus, this may be more your style. EDIT: forgot to add in the multi-meltas! 95 points for this firebase is amazing; shame it costs £53.50... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4187150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tychii Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Has anyone tried attack bikes with meltabombs. I feel like they could have a place at cracking Spartans or other land raiders seeing as they are seasonably durable with jink and 2 wounds a piece Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4187257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think tha I'll settle with a mix of quad mortar and mortis dreadnought for having an anti flyer unit too Has anyone tried attack bikes with meltabombs. I feel like they could have a place at cracking Spartans or other land raiders seeing as they are seasonably durable with jink and 2 wounds a piece spartans and landraiders will come with armoured ceramite for sure Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4187284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think tha I'll settle with a mix of quad mortar and mortis dreadnought for having an anti flyer unit too Has anyone tried attack bikes with meltabombs. I feel like they could have a place at cracking Spartans or other land raiders seeing as they are seasonably durable with jink and 2 wounds a piece spartans and landraiders will come with armoured ceramite for sure Meltabombs have the armourbane special rule, not melta. :) The only reliable things do deal with a spartan are grav and meltabombs. When you rely on meltabombs, you should mount them on something really fast and something that is not as indurable as regular bikes.. While some suggest jetbikes with meltabombs (T5, very fast, 2+ save) I rather like 10 veterans with meltabombs in a dreadclaw.. whatever vehicle they touch in CC, it will be dead. Even superheavies. And in opposite of jetbikes, they are pretty common troops due to PotL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4187311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 ^ those Veterans will deal with any super heavy besides Titans. Even the little Wolfhound will make them hit on 6s. Jetbikes will be about the same price once you factor in the Dreadclaw. Admittedly they will have a few less meltabombs due to their smaller squad size, but they are much more mobile and can easily deal with more than one armored target. You'd have to be facing a very lax opponent whho would let more than one vehicle get assaulted by meltabommb veterans. Since they can't assault on that first turn the pod comes in either, it's going to be difficult to get them where you want them since they are slower than the vehicles you'll be going after. On top of that, those jetbikes still hit Titans normally in close combat, making their fewer Melta bombs way less of an issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4187318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Personally a las vindi. It never fails to amaze me when it nukes target after target. Game after game. I played a game Friday night. T1 nuked a mahara ghal T2 nuked a temptor Mortis T3 finished off a raider T4 blasted an enemy hq for a kill point T5-6 shooting at infantry or lorgar. So for that point cost it's output it awesome. I give it armoured ceramite to shield against flanking javs that survive my Mortis or deredeo, or calivers interceptor. If it's in a decent position i will over charge. I stripped 1 hp off it, sometimes i wreck it by t4. But then all the arnour is gone by then :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Can someone explain to me why everyone thinks the rapier quad mortar has sunder? Only the Achilles alpha gets that round in my book Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Yeah, I thought about it after my suggestion of Javelins. LasVindis look really good now - a legitimate alternative to the Demolisher version. Model looks great too! I think the quad mortar was ruled by Forge World to include shatter shells on all models now. Only they have Sunder. Definitely has them in the LACAL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The LACAL only has them on the Achilles alpha - the sunder rounds are listed specifically for it only Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xera32 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Quad mortars have shatter shells the same way CMLs have Krak rounds. They are given the weapon, and the weapon itself has 2 firing modes. the Achilles is a copy paste from a time when the rapiers didn't have the 2nd firing mode (actually the shatter rounds didn't even exist until they made the Achilles after HH1). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6v77 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The quad mortar rapiers are konsters for what they do. Aslong as you can keep an assault unit off them you have one hell of a firebase. T7 vs shooting, 3 ablative wounds in a full squad and either 4 S8 sunder or 4 small blast S5 barrage. I am going to buy another unit of three soon and run them as my premier anti tank and anti hordes. Need to find a way to give them skyfire now...... Seriously though. For the price of a typhon you get 24 (2 sets of 12) anti armour or antibinfantry shots that with the right legions get some nice buffs... IH: T8 against shooting AL: Infiltrating quad mortars..... Nuff said Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Quad mortars have shatter shells the same way CMLs have Krak rounds. They are given the weapon, and the weapon itself has 2 firing modes. the Achilles is a copy paste from a time when the rapiers didn't have the 2nd firing mode (actually the shatter rounds didn't even exist until they made the Achilles after HH1). Sorry but I disagree. Just because a weapon entry has a profile does not let you use the profile for free - see flak missiles. You say it's a copy paste - what if its intentional that the alpha is the only one to get this fire mode as it specifically lists it in its profile unlike every other time this weapon is listed in the book. I do see the comparison to the CML in terms of ammo types but I still feel that maybe the intent was to make the alpha unique and appealing. The other this is of course is that the quad mortar was already excellent for the cost, let alone with the ability to deal with armour at medium range! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Forge World entries don't always list every weapon rule on the page. Why they've chosen to do so on the Achilles-Alpha page is, as xera32 pointed out, because they've copy/pasted this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Achilles_Alpha.pdf All this is meaningless though, as Forge World have already ruled that Rapiers get to use both shells. What will really get you thinking is why the Frag Shells have "Shell Shock" when Barrage weapons no longer cause Pinning... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 While this is the 40k PDF, it is interesting to note that in this profile for Frag Shells have Pinning: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/RapierQuadMortar40k.pdf This would indicate that FW is aware of the issue and have corrected it. Maybe we'll see the update with the Next Books release. Whether it coincides with an FAQ update or is in the actual book, remains to be seen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4188778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Where has forgeworld ruled that the rapier gets both shells? FAQ? Link please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4189005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Nowhere really. It doesn't specify which shells the rapier has, just that it is a Quad mortar ('Thud gun'). In the weapon summary at the end of the LCAL it lists the quad mortar frag/shatter shells as one entry (like the alternate fire modes of the plasma blastgun or cyclone missile launcher) The link slipstreams provided is for use in 40k but is almost identical to the LCAL version so you could reasonably play with both frag/shatter and I wouldn't have a problem from a gameplay/balance position. The shell shock rule is a carry-over from HH1 when 6th edition barrage weapons had pinning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4189024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Here is a copy and paste from Forgeworld after I asked this very question: Hi Phalanx Warder. The rules profile for the Quad Launcher in the Crusade Army list book shows both types of ammunition for the weapon. As such the Rapier version and the one mounted on the Achilles Alpha fire both types. How would you rate my reply?Great Okay Not Good If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards,Forge World Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314420-antitank/#findComment-4189082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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