Marshal Loss Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 That's actually a really good point re: Daemonology. I hope they let him pump out some full novels, because he seems to constantly be raising and addressing themes/issues rarely dealt with. The themes of the provenance of Primarchs (how divorced they are from even their "own" people) is something that hasn't really come up before in significant detail to my knowledge, and the introspection of Russ is great. I can't remember the last time I read something (other than the FW books and ADB's handling of First Heretic/Betrayer) that so totally made me backflip on my thoughts of a Legion/Character in the setting. Chris Wraight (along with Guy Haley, who is also fantastic IMO) deserves some serious screentime away from these Limited Editions, which you'd imagine would still have a pretty small audience. For the prices they charge, I hope that future novellas/books maintain the level of quality in Wolf King. EDIT: Another quote, because I can't help but love a little dig at the smurfs: ‘Other Legions have not borne the brunt as we have. Others have forged their own kingdoms. They tell me Guilliman wrote a book. Maybe, with all that time on his hands, he might have seen this coming.' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm surprised no one is more shocked at Russ saying Guilliman hated Alpharius. Not disliked or looked down on. He hated him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Ohhh, I also love the little dig where Russ thinks that Guilliman hates Alpharius. Yeah, it's an opinion of the Wolf King, but I wonder how true it is. Probably very. I think there was a thing in HH3 where Guilliman was pretty pissed about how the XXth handled a campaign, so it's not at all a stretch. I can certainly see where the doctrines of Guilliman and the Alpha Legion collide, when it comes to centralization vs decentralization, despite a lot of their other ideas coinciding (such as adapting and adopting eg UM Fulmentarus terminators vs the XXth's IT'S ALL OURS but we'll do it our way, kind of, thing). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Did I got it right that there are several DA outposts out there which are loyal to both Luther and the Emperor but not to the Lion? I bet that there will be many new DIY DA successors in the near future. ;) Overall this book sounds pretty good with all this little twists in it. It's a shame that it so much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm surprised no one is more shocked at Russ saying Guilliman hated Alpharius. Not disliked or looked down on. He hated him. Is there a quote or anything you can share, does it go into why? So you guys enjoyed it then? If there's some copies left when I get paid in a couple of weeks I'll buy it. I'm on a bit of a Space Wolves kick at the moment and I always like seeing the Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Carnelian Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 So Chris Wraight penned another incredibly even-handed and fair look at the legions, while keeping their thematic potency intact? Shocker. I'm saying it again for the people in the back: watch this cat. He has the right stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Pretty much everything I've read by Chris had been good and he only seems to be getting better He and Aaron are very thoughtful writers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Just finished Wolf King , Very good read for people who are fans of the wolves and for people who feel that thier position as executioners is a bothersome one. A great look into Russ himself as well , Fair is the correct word here i think fantastically put together piece. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm surprised no one is more shocked at Russ saying Guilliman hated Alpharius. Not disliked or looked down on. He hated him. Is there a quote or anything you can share, does it go into why? So you guys enjoyed it then? If there's some copies left when I get paid in a couple of weeks I'll buy it. I'm on a bit of a Space Wolves kick at the moment and I always like seeing the Alpha Legion. Russ hacked his way through the enemy, barely seeing those whom he slew. They were a blur, a mass of armour and muscle, inert fodder for his blade. He had already sensed the true enemy, and besides that presence nothing else mattered. He ignored the wounds he took and the losses of his pack around him; he just kept moving, grinding through the walls of sapphire and gold. He had never hated Alpharius, not like Guilliman had hated him. The Alpha Legion had been an irrelevance, an afterthought, a gang of shadow-huggers at the beck and call of Horus who were worthy of nothing more than faint scorn. At least Magnus had been a proper enemy, out in the open, getting his hands thick with sorcery where it could be seen. Alpharius had been... nothing. A whisper, a suspicion, an echo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Magnus was sulking in his chamber IIRC... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I liked it, and it had a lot of interesting thoughts - and the ascension of Bear/Bjorn is well done. However, it feels also very neat - abandoning an identity with no examination of what this means for the community. It's Russ, and no one else - except the token sacrifice of Gunn, which was cliche at heart. The Wolves must become like their 40k selves, and this is the way how - no deeper examination. I think it wasn't as good as Wraight's work with the Scars because he doesn't have the room for multiple outside- and self-examining POVs. The I Legion agent was a great, unexpected twist - it is a shame you are all lapping up the spoilers, since the manner of the presentation seems so boringly XX until it was revealed. As for the endgame, it got a bit boring! It was a rather dull conflict at points, and I really wanted Wraight to turn from it more to these characters again. It is a shame that certain distinctive personalities like Orgvai and Godsmote have been relegated; of course Bjorn needs development, and the new Rune Priest was interesting, but equally they all felt like cyphers or extras in a James Cameron film (unlike Russ, or several of the Scars characters). It is interesting how different authors tackle void warfare...for Wraight, his space conflict in this and Scars is as fast as that seen in space opera tv and film like Star Wars or DS9 or Babylon 5. It contrasts so much with the slow, stately (indeed BFG-style) conflict of say Salvation's Reach. I must say again, it ultimately felt dull - I think the claustraphobia in the nebula could have been exploited much better, as the theme opened the novella in the sense of the iron prison of the ships the VI occupy. Instead it was a series of rails and tunnels that resulted in very linear actions, before resulting in an 'open space' that was very much last stand/boss fight - much like ultimately how the ships worked, which was disappointing. Of course several on-going themes of the author were lovely. The psychic nature of the primarchs, the sense of loss of their fixed identity provoked by the Heresy (seen in W's handling of Russ, the Khagan and Mortarion), the role played by psykers in different legions (although I was very surprised - or thought it a silly lack - that the AL did not bring their own librarians to play). The terrible arrogance of the VI was well played too - and although I think the novella is too easy a shorthand for change, it was nice to see further examination of this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Magnus was sulking in his chamber IIRC... Magnus came out and faced him on the field in the end. No need for that baiting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Magnus was sulking in his chamber IIRC...Magnus came out and faced him on the field in the end. No need for that baitingActually the context from that quote would be that Magnus was open about who he is, never hiding behind lies or subterfuge. You knew Magnus for who he was and you either liked him for it, or hated it. Whereas Alpharius has many metaphorical faces and there are very few individuals(if any) who know who he truly is. As a person, not that other deal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Did I got it right that there are several DA outposts out there which are loyal to both Luther and the Emperor but not to the Lion? I bet that there will be many new DIY DA successors in the near future. Overall this book sounds pretty good with all this little twists in it. It's a shame that it so much. Perhaps that explains why the Angel of Vigilance ain't definitely accepted as a Dark Angel successor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 It seems to me that it would be hard to be loyal to the Emperor and not also to the Lion when he made the Lion your boss. Unless he thinks the Lion Went rogue or sided with Horus. A covenient lie for Luther to tell. It also seems silly he'd have a starfort. The Lion strikes me as meticulous. Almost like Guillimen. Always doubting and never trusting. Doesn't seem like he'd acquiesce to letting some chapter commander(who has never met) have a star fort. Anyone know how closs prospero is to Caliban? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think a DA could still be faithful to the Emp's plan for mankind but simultaneously resent being "left to rot" on Caliban Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 "[Russ] had never hated Alpharius, not like Guilliman had hated him." Am I the only one who read this passage as "Russ never hating Alphaboy, not like Guilliman hated RUSS"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 It's not really a surprise that Gulliman hated Alpharius is it? I mean Alpharius is the personification of the very tenets and warcraft that got his step father killed. Much like the comment Horus makes about him "knowing everything of war, just wishing he didn't" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Wait a minute... was there also an excerpt stating that the Wolves were wiping out Thousand Sons garrisons throughout the galaxy, even after finding out they were duped by Horus? Why?? It's already been revealed it was a ploy to have two Legions destroyed, so Russ just keeps going along with the corrupt orders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think the SW realise that Horus has used them...but they also realise how tainted the TSons are Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 It's not really a surprise that Gulliman hated Alpharius is it? I mean Alpharius is the personification of the very tenets and warcraft that got his step father killed. Much like the comment Horus makes about him "knowing everything of war, just wishing he didn't" Well we knew Guilliman didn't like the way the Alpha Legion fought but there's a wide margin between that and actually hating Alpharius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 It's safe to assume Guilliman doesn't like Alpharius now though after UE :p Grey Angel goes a long way to explain what's up with Luthor atm. I'd suggest the reason Caliban is investigated at all is after what happened in this novella. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think the SW realise that Horus has used them...but they also realise how tainted the TSons are Yes, the Wolves and Russ both say explicitly how corrupt Magnus and the XV were. Russ several times says he has no remorse for Magnus, not even on the cusp of his revelation about no longer being that executioner anymore. The novella also seems to state that any ideas that the VI 'executed' a prior Legion are not true; it is the actual events of Prospero, the first time the Legion did this, that have sent Russ into a depressed spiral. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 "[Russ] had never hated Alpharius, not like Guilliman had hated him." Am I the only one who read this passage as "Russ never hating Alphaboy, not like Guilliman hated RUSS"? :huh: Seeing as how Guiliman considered Russ one of his 'Dauntless Four', I think reading into it like that isn't the right way. As far as Guiliman hating Alpharius, why shouldn't he? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Russ, Dorn, Ferrus, and Sanguinius were Guillimans go to Avengers team. Reflected in the allies chart (with the exception of the Iron Hands). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314428-wolf-king-spoilers-and-discussion/page/2/#findComment-4187366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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