A Part of the HH Series I Keep Waiting for....

[Sothalor]

I'm waiting for the breaking of the Death Guard, I hope it gets handled well. Other than that, anything by AD-B.

I have this sinking feeling that the siege of Terra (or at least its key point, if it gets split into several books), will be written by a certain influential writer I don't care for.

Who, Nick Kyme?

[HeritorA]

NOOOOOOOOO 

[1000 Sons]

Does the Heresy need to end ?  Maybe they will line it up with the HH game and turn it into a setting, instead of a start and end story line.  The siege or terra can be stretched into a months long campaign where new weapons and units are being used by the traitors and secret weapons from the pits of the imperial palace are also revealed.  The story can always stay at the 2 minutes until the battle on the vengeful spirit.

[Visitor13]

I'm waiting for the breaking of the Death Guard, I hope it gets handled well. Other than that, anything by AD-B.

I have this sinking feeling that the siege of Terra (or at least its key point, if it gets split into several books), will be written by a certain influential writer I don't care for.

Who, Nick Kyme?

Nope, not Thorpe either, or Abnett (I do like Abnett).

[hopkins]

After his work on Scars & Daemonology I'd like to see Chris Wraight handle Mortarion and the Death Guard's fall

[Augustus]

I wouldn't be against two universes. Nice surprises :)

[LongGone]

Does the Heresy need to end ? Maybe they will line it up with the HH game and turn it into a setting, instead of a start and end story line. The siege or terra can be stretched into a months long campaign where new weapons and units are being used by the traitors and secret weapons from the pits of the imperial palace are also revealed. The story can always stay at the 2 minutes until the battle on the vengeful spirit.

Yeah, I think it has to. From the events of 'Horus Rising' to Big Daddy E soul blasting his wayward son, we're talking about what, ten(ish) years? And we already know the general outcome of the story. That's in contrast to the rest of the 40k setting that has 10,000 years of empty space to fill, with no stated end in sight.

 

There are already complaints on the lack of story progression from the latest HH novels/novellas/ebooks/audiobooks/Dead Sea scrolls. I'm in no rush to see the end of the series, but the reality is there is only so much they can milk this golden cash cow before that :cuss starts to turn sour in our mouths, and we raise the bull :cuss flag sky high.

 

Will it be a bittersweet moment when the Emprah is laid low and the forces of Chaos are sent packing? Most definitely. Maybe I'll even finally pony up the dough for a limited edition last novel and bankrupt myself... (probably not). But, oh, think of the wondrous doors that will open come the end of the Heresy!

 

Can I get a 'Scouring Era' in the house?!?!

[Kol Saresk]

They're already starting to hit the Scouring era(that Flesh Tearers novella by Andy Smillie), pre-First Black Crusade(Talon of Horus) and Post-First Black Crusade(John French's Ahriman series).

[LongGone]

No doubt, but I'm talking a legit series though. At the very least, it could serve as an answer to what comes after the Horus Heresy series. Something that covers the breaking of the legions into chapters, the introduction of the Codex, the Iron Cage, etc.

 

But that's neither here nor there, as far as this thread is concerned. My point was that the HH series *should* eventually end. The Emprah should be struck down, Horus should die a horrible death, and his forces should flee Terra defeated and disorganized.

[HeritorA]

Eskrador - that waht we need! Everything else is just for show

[Glacial Sentinel]

First, please excuse me for digging up this 3 week abondend thread, but I`ve just read through it and have to add my 2 cents.

 

 

The "counter punch" was Isstvan V.

And now, there's nothing the Imperium could do on a significant scale until the Warmaster overcommits at Terra.

 

Absolutely right.

 

And to everybody that claims for a massive counter attack or a simple hard hitting mission to end the Heresy, let me say this:

(This is the short form of this page: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy)

 

The advantage in numbers after the Isvaan incidents was an important factor for the Warmasters chances of victory, but they were still not significant enough to ensure a direct assault on Terra to be a reliable success of the Heresy, so Horus had to make some more important moves to rise his chances and to ensure his victory.

 

1. Gain the Traitor Auxilia and as much mortal forces and ressources as possible.

 

2. Gain a gigantic fleet

 

3. The Schism of Mars had to start. With an rebelling Mars, the traitors would have a breach head right beside Terra and also bind massive forces near Terra, not able to leave the system for a counter attack. Also, it cuts off Terra from a large amount of military ressources

 

4. Engage hidden forces and plots all across the Imperium to cuase irritation and rebellions. This distorted systems and planets would be willing to join Horus fleets or at least be no problem to overwhelm them. The result: More ressources and less resistance.

 

5. The loyal legions had to be split up or crippled. I won`t write down everything that every legion did during the heresy, because I guess you know it already. But they all had good or even essential reasons for their absence on Terra, or were simply not able to go to Terra and join their forces. So, there was absolutely no option for a "Hooray!!!"-suicide mission.

 

6. During the whole Heresy, it was not exactly clear, who was really loyal and who not. Everybody mistrusted each other even a little. And history shows, that there were good reasons for that too.

 

7. The best strategic option, when you are smaller in numbers than the enemy and you don`t want to run away or give up your position (Terra and the control about the Imperium), you have to mag a strong defense. And coordinate guerilla strikes against the forces of the enemy to cripple them a little and that`s what the Emperor did.

 

Tell me of one reasonable scenario that you come up with, that would not have caused a massive, devastating reaction of the traitors forces.

 

Even IF all left Astartes and other forces would have joined at Terra in the beginning of the conflict, what should they do? The traitor legions where splitting up and not searching a final big battle. So the loyalists would ahve to split up again too to do their counter strike. And if the loyalists just would have sat there and waited until Horus arrived, then Horus would have gained so many forces and ressources that they would have wiped away easily too.

 

I know there are a lot of plotholes and "strange" decisions made, but all in all, the basic idea of a counter attack is absolutely impossible. Because there are a lot of reasons for the title "Warmaster" given to Horus.

 

I have spoken. Sorry for the length of my post, i tried to make it as short as possible. If you have any ideas or concepts that prove me wrong then please let me know. Maybe i missed something.

[deathspectersgt7]

Waiting for the End.

[drooling blood]

I dont really blame them for milking the cow, but they havent had a times or whatever best seller lately.

 

I'd like to see Russ and his band of merry men, follow the signs, find khaos hours sitting on his throne and go nope, nope, nope. Running away with their tails between their legs.

Though it doesnt really fit with time line fluff. Put some air quotes around that.

 

Hell they full throttled 3 legions destruction, then spend 3 books shoe horning the the poster boys in, so they have a presence, which just shows that by the end they had it easy compared to everyone else. The shattered legion stuff could be handled with short stories.

But theres a cow over there.

[Jareddm]

I dont really blame them for milking the cow, but they havent had a times or whatever best seller lately.

I'm afraid this statement shows a lack of understanding of how the NYT bestseller list works.  Back when HH novels were reaching the bestseller list, there was only one format to read them in.  This meant that all (or the vast majority of) sales of a particular book could be calculated via the sales of the mass-market paperback.  When a book has multiple formats, like the HH has now, the sales are only calculated for a particular format in a particular week.  It is not the aggregation of all the hardbacks, trade paperbacks, mass-market paperbacks, and audio releases over the span of a books sale life.  According to Laurie Goulding, the total sales of HH books, aggregated across all formats, is greater than it has ever been.  ADB even mentioned awhile back that he jokingly lamented the change to multiple formats, because he knew he wouldn't get "New York Times Bestseller" on a HH book anymore.

 

 The shattered legion stuff could be handled with short stories.

It has been handled in short stories, almost in its entirety.  In fact, between Tales of Heresy, Legacies of Betrayal and the Meduson collection I feel they've done a fine job of tying together all the major Shattered Legion entities that have appeared in Scars, Vengeful Spirit, and Angel Exterminatus.  Damnation of Pythos is the oddball, as it's really just a prequel to Pandorax, rather than a HH book.

[Vesper]

Lol. Pandorax.

[Prot]

It's funny I was thinking about this thread last night as we had a gaming night and this very topic (purely by coincidence) came up.

 

It was a friend who mentioned to me that he found it a little unrealistic and silly that no counter blow has been started, invented, or written about yet. I actually told him about this thread and told him I completely agreed 1000%.  

 

At the time of these incidents the Imperium of mankind is *possibly* the greatest military threat in the known 40K multiverse. We know the end results, and the big storylines, but I still say it is a MASSIVE missed opportunity by the Black Library to not explore counter punching the Heretic thrust. Because right now it is getting repetitive - Horus targets a resource, casualties are worse than anticipated, but resource is largely stolen, consumed or destroyed.

 

I look at these moments as filler inbetween moments that matter; the big footnotes in HH lore.  Rarely does a book come out now of the status (IMHO) of The Purge. It's a story that's been told (like most) in whole or in part, but it is just so damn well told that it's a diamond in the rough that most will miss.

 

It's way overdo to have interesting side stories that can be completely fictional and have no greater impact (unless they create that unknown impact). To me the idea that this hasn't been explored (and I assure you I'm no genius, just ask my wife, and I'm not the first to think of this) is asinine. 

 

Where I think perhaps I'm not being clear enough is where I may be misunderstood. This is my fault but to be clearer.... I don't mean I want to read about a pack of angry.... I dunno... Ravenguard that take a stealth ship and kill 5 Primarchs. No... nothing that crazy at all. BUT instead of reading another book about an Imperial planet being overrun for more 'war stuff'.... how about some examples:

 

1. A 'secret' planet has been in the back corner of the Warmaster's pocket. Well protected, but not so much as to make itself obvious, this planet is acting as an incubator for Daemonically slow 'growing', daemonic assets of war. A network of spies finally happens across it and a large kill team is on a one way ticket to make sure it never sees the light of Terra.

 

2. The Lost Legions. We still have nothing more than clues.... in some cases we really don't know the final numbers but there could very well be a Legion stuck in the warp. Heck there could be 'failed' or 'detached' Primarchs in some bizarre situation out there. Something the Emperor never told anyone for obvious reasons (Heck he never told his sons about Chaos so what the heck). What if some part of that came out of nowhere to have a 'last stand' scenario that makes the Heresy less of a sure thing?

 

3. Assassinorum. I really think this organization is overdo to have an actual impact on the storyline and there's tons of room for it. (it doesn't have to have 'deathstar' implications to be interesting.)

 

4. Forgeworlds. I've lost count how many the Imperium has lost, and or have gone rogue. What if one is actually taken back, or unexpectedly annihilated taking out some much needed Chaotic resources as well?

 

5. A 'double agent' Primarch leads loyalist forces through a stitch in the fabric of the warp storms to a juicy, traitor Admech planet that was hosting the Warmaster's greatest reserves of STC devices. We know these are game changing devices and they end up becoming exceptionally rare. The only way I could see such a planet being exposed would be some sort of double agent Primarch which is a storyline as old as time itself and this has not really happened yet. There's so little we still know of Alpha Legion and their intent. They would be the perfect catalyst for such a story.

 

There's 5 ideas spit-balled in 5 minutes. Now imagine guys like Abnett, ADB, McNeil (if he still is a main thrust of the story) sitting around a table or skype session thinking about such story lines. Wouldn't it be a little realistic to read about some counter military actions taken by the Imperium rather than sitting in throne line chairs and building walls, waiting for :cuss to happen to them? Wouldn't it be a welcome change  of pace? I also think since it's so largely unexplored an author could make some real headway, making for some juicy new background. (again it doesn't have to change the universe to be cool.)

[Felix Antipodes]

You may yet get your wish. Since they have stretched the HH timeline (as described by others) they will have to create more incidents and/or battles to fill this void. This should include several loyalist counter attacks and holding actions to explain why it now took Horus years to reach Terra instead of months. To not do so would make no sense from a (real world) military standpoint.

[Legatus]

It's way overdo to have interesting side stories that can be completely fictional and have no greater impact (unless they create that unknown impact). To me the idea that this hasn't been explored (and I assure you I'm no genius, just ask my wife, and I'm not the first to think of this) is asinine.

 

Isn't that sort of what 'Battle for the Abyss' was meant to be? It is a side story that was completely new, invented for the Horus Heresy series. A traitor Legion has developed a "deathstar" super ship and sends it to destroy one of the loyal Legion's homeworlds. Pretty considerable stakes there, I'd say. But a small group of loyalists learns of this plan and goes to pursue that ship to stop it. And in the end it did not really affect things, and was perhaps not even remembered by the official history.

 

I allways thought the plot sounded pretty interesting. Kind of like a "Hunt for Red October" in 40K. But apparently it was not very engaging. (Haven't read it myself.)

 

Perhaps the panning of that book is a reason why the HH series has not pursued those kind of story lines any further.

 

On the other hand, the entire "Imperium Secundus" plot could be seen as a side story. Though there hasn't been any payoff yet. The potential implications for the further development or teh outcome of the Heresy have not yet been revealed.

[Felix Antipodes]

One part of the HH storyline I have been looking for is them starting to foreshadow (ie build up the profile) of the various personnel who will go on to become the Chapter Masters of the Second Founding. Yes, they have introduced Amit and started to expand on known ones like Sigismond and Polux, but surely they should be starting to introduce by now. Especially since they are already talking of a Scouring series once HH winds up. They may be planning on do this in the initial Scouring novels, as the 2ndF didn't happen until it was underway, but I still believe now is the time to start laying those foundations.

[The Red Thirst]

 

On the other hand, the entire "Imperium Secundus" plot could be seen as a side story. Though there hasn't been any payoff yet. The potential implications for the further development or teh outcome of the Heresy have not yet been revealed.

 

Less a side story and more of a waste of time and money in my opinion, it doesnt even feel like the heresy is even happening, just brooding astartes sitting around while others complain and mope about their brothers sitting around, while they are themselves, sitting around.... GET A MOVE ON ALREADY!!!

[Marshal Rohr]

I think if they'd have known how the HH would grow into a FW system and it's overwhelming popularity they would've structured the series differently. A prequel, and then a tie in novel/duology/trilogy for every book FW writes.

[deathspectersgt7]

On the other hand, the entire "Imperium Secundus" plot could be seen as a side story. Though there hasn't been any payoff yet. The potential implications for the further development or teh outcome of the Heresy have not yet been revealed.

Less a side story and more of a waste of time and money in my opinion, it doesnt even feel like the heresy is even happening, just brooding astartes sitting around while others complain and mope about their brothers sitting around, while they are themselves, sitting around.... GET A MOVE ON ALREADY!!!

And Whiny Primarchs. I'am done with it.