CyderPirate Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hey guys, need some help from the barracks. I was recently on the nasty end of a beating from an Eldar player, and I'm trying to plan out what to do next time. I'm not really surprised that I lost, as I was taking a load of new stuff all at once - assassins, Skitarii and Mechanicus alongside my usual Kriegers. But I was surprised at how effective a Wraithknight is, and how little can actually hurt it. I've only played against WKs once before: I was using my Iron Hands, and grav centurions took the WK down in a single volley for first blood! In this game, I messed up pretty badly on a few things before I hit the table (I thought I could hurt it with S4, and planned to feed it a couple of the assassins), and then I made a couple of more mistakes. I think my overall strategy was sound (prioritise the jetbikes, go for objectives), but I misjudged how effective certain things would be against the big guy. So, with T8 I need at least S5 to wound it, and even then its got 3 layers of saves to get through (Armour/Invuln, then FNP). From the Krieg list, the only things that I think could take it down without costing me a fortune in points are: Heavy Weapons Platoon with Lascannons Rapier batteries From the standard AM list, there's also these options: Plasma veterans (ish - these guys are still wounding on 5s, and are a tad squishy) Pask in a Punisher Exterminator LRs? Apart from that, the only thing I could thing of doing is allying in some Mechanicus for the Grav servitors. In this game I tried torsion cannons on the breacher servitors - they're pretty much designed to take down MCs - but failed to get a single wound through. I think they might be workable, but their short range make them very situational. If I can shoot it, it can charge me. Have I missed anything? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 It's a broken unit made even more insane by the buffs available to it via Jetcouncil. Don't feel so bad if you can't kill it. Even a lot of tier 1 armies struggle to murder it. I'd actually recommend Vendetta lascannons. It can't realistically hurt them, and you'll also outgun their stupid Crimson Death formation in the air (can't do anything about their super-Jink, but if they Jink they aren't shooting you so win win). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4194629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Good point, I forgot the humble Vendetta. Mine's been sitting in a box since I started using my IG as Kriegers. I might have to bring it out of retirement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4194647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewkers Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 possibly a vulture gunship? 20 shots twinlinked at s5 should put a few wounds on it even with its saves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4194841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Still need 6s to wound with the Vulture and then its still got a 3+ followed by an FNP. Not sure of the maths, but I think it'd struggle to do more than a couple of wounds before getting splatted by dark reapers. I'd love to be wrong, though - I do love that model :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4194851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Going in with new stuff is no guarantee of a strong list, in fact I'd say the more shiny you put in the weaker your list overall as you're not experienced in their use yet. It's not called shiny model syndrome for nothing which is why it's hard to resist :P As you said you made mistakes too, so it's a bit early to be worrying. You know how to deal with T8 already and as Darius said it's a very good unit and they are by their nature hard to tackle. The question is perhaps more if you want to stick to pure Krieg in doing so? If that's the case you're going to struggle a bit, short of festooning the table with artillery! A Vendetta is solid, all those lascannons in the sky can be relied on to hit hard, it's a matter of making sure it counts which isn't easy as you start off relying on a reserves roll. Last but not least you've already won the important battle - he collects stinky xenos while you bask in the radiance of the Guard. Each game he has this niggling sense of disappointment he can't quite put his finger on, and that's this irrefutable fact eating away at his soul. I'm sure updating your Regiments of the B&C sig images would give you better rolls too... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukash_ Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 You could try to tarpit him with conscript squads, but that's a risky proposition due to Jump. He only has 4 attacks IIRC, and his S10 will be wasted on T3 bodies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 possibly a vulture gunship? 20 shots twinlinked at s5 should put a few wounds on it even with its saves Still need 6s to wound with the Vulture and then its still got a 3+ followed by an FNP. Not sure of the maths, but I think it'd struggle to do more than a couple of wounds before getting splatted by dark reapers. I'd love to be wrong, though - I do love that model Er...yeah...for once, the Vulture is not the all-singing all-dancing crap of the world...there are occasions where a different platform is more effective, and this is one of them. Vendettas are much better in this case. Erm, is there a way for IG to get fleshbane, even from an ally? Whenever I see T8, that's my first thought. I love facing wraithknights with deathwing knights, for example, the sergeant has AP3 fleshbane and the regular knights have S6AP3 or smash... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 What's the initiative on the big guy? I fought an eldar player who used a wraith lord , T8 and killed it in one fell swoop with my Rough Riders. X amount of Str 5 attacks at AP3, just need three 6s once the hits are resolved. That was against a lord though.. Also you need to charge. But it's incredibly satisfying as RR are dirt cheap! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Wraithknights are 6wounds at T8. What about throwing misfortune on the beast, and bringing it down with rending lasguns? That'd be embarrassing... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Median Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 One word.......ratlings :^) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't know if it would actually work, but the image of scruffy space hobbits taking out a WK will make smile all day... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Cheers for the ideas guys! You could try to tarpit him with conscript squads, but that's a risky proposition due to Jump. He only has 4 attacks IIRC, and his S10 will be wasted on T3 bodies. The thought had occurred, but they also get stomp attacks to thin out hordes. (I forgot about that as well, and had a full-health Archmagos deleted by a single dice roll. No saves, no wound rolls - just take off anything under the template). 125pts of fearless conscripts to hold it up for a turn or two would still be good though - it'd buy me enough time to pick apart the rest of the army. Plus, if he wastes time shooting the conscripts, that's shooting that's not hitting my important units. One word.......ratlings :^) Might have to give this a try. They're still wounding on 6s, but at least any wounds will be rending, and put him on his inv/FNP. Plust they're cheap enough to buy in bulk, and there's not much competition for elite slots. Wraithknights are 6wounds at T8. What about throwing misfortune on the beast, and bringing it down with rending lasguns? That'd be embarrassing... Does that still work if lasguns can't usually wound it? (I really hope it does, cos that'd be another reason to wheel out the conscripts!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewkers Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 One word.......ratlings :^) Might have to give this a try. They're still wounding on 6s, but at least any wounds will be rending, and put him on his inv/FNP. Plust they're cheap enough to buy in bulk, and there's not much competition for elite slots. They would be wounding on 4s due to being snipers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Gargantuan Creatures treat Sniper and Poisoned as wounding on a 6+, regardless of their value. Doesn't affect Fleshbane, or anything else that wounds on a set number. Rending, of course, causes an AP2 wound automatically on a To Wound roll of 6, regardless of the target's toughness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonbandito Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The best way for Guard to kill Wraithknights is the same answer as for every Imperium of Man army - Grav Weapons. Unfortunately this means allies. Probably Space Marine ones too, not Cult Mechanicus, since Space Marines can Drop Pod in with BS4. Go Ultramarine Tactics so you can pop the doctrine for re-rolls to hit, and drop some Devastator Grav Cannons in next to it. Unless it's sitting in cover, it will get seriously hurt. Unfortunately if it is sitting in cover there's not much you can do about it, short of trying to fish for the Perfect Timing (ie Ignores Cover) Divination power. But then you're fighting a losing battle against the Eldar Psychic Phase. I've always wanted to try Misfortune + Infantry Blob + Rapid Fire + FRFSRF. It's really hard to pull off in a game though - first you need to roll Misfortune on your Psyker at the start of the game, then you need to get your blob in range, then you need to get Misfortune off without being Denied. I've never been able to do it :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomericus Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 how many points does a wraithknight cost again? how many artillery batteries can you field for the same points cost,,,,spam basilisk batteries and fire for effect ,,,crater that git back into the stone age! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 how many points does a wraithknight cost again? how many artillery batteries can you field for the same points cost,,,,spam basilisk batteries and fire for effect ,,,crater that git back into the stone age! Although I am loathe to use the word "spam", I do agree with this idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4195902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The accepted term is "load up on" or "Guard" for short :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thinking about it, when everything gains access to vehicle squadrons, is one HS choice of three Basilisks considered spamming? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedibear Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 the WK weighs in at 375 points, you could take ~40 ratlings with that many points and see if you can snipe it to death. Statistically you'd get 4 rends every shooting phase with the ratlings. Or yeah, fire for effect. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 375 points worth of ratlings... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thirty ratlings doesn't cost too much and would actually give me an excuse to fill my elite slots. I may have to think about this. I just wish IG had some way to get army wide leadership buffs. I'm still in favor of doubling down on psykers and trying to hit him with misfortune. Some FRFSRF love will turn him back into stone then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'd like to just say, for the record, that the Misfortune suggestion was intended as a mostly humourous one, though not a facetious one. As Goonbanditio says, it's extraordinarily hard to get to work. Rending in a general sense is a useful tool against GC, and Misfortune can be a useful way of getting it where you need it. 375 points of Ratlings does sound intriguing, though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 How does monster hunter for re-rolls stack up against FRFSRF? Call it a 50man blob firing on a misfortuned sword/board WK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314789-gargantuan-creatures/#findComment-4196474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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