Conspiracy Theory: How the Blood Angels Rebuild Quickly

[Spagunk]

The proganoid glands/gene-seed are extracted from the dead bodies. That's what is removed from a marine when they die. Blood too because it's Blood! But the gland is removed to make more marines.

 

From 3rd Ed SM book:

 

"The reductor is one of the devices used by an apothecary to retrieve the progenoid gland from fallen space marines. These glands are vital for ensuring the continued existence of the chapter..."

 

The Progenoid gland is what is used to mature into gene-seeds.

 

From 40k Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#Progenoids)

"Phase 18: There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck and the other within the chest cavity. These glands are vitally important and represent the future of the Chapter, as the only way new gene-seed can be produced is by reproducing it within the bodies of the Marines themselves. This is the implant's only purpose. The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine.

These take time (5 years in the first case, 10 in the latter)^[1][2a][3] to mature into gene-seed. The gene-seed can then be extracted and used to create more Space Marines."

So if a marine dies, the first thing an apothecary does is extract the glands/gene-seed from the victim to be implanted in another recruit later.

[Leonaides]

No, the organs are from a dead primarchs body after he died.

 

Durign the Siege of Terra, all of the Blood Angels geneseed stocks were destroyed in the fighting. They were forced to take fresh/replacement samples from the dead body of their primarch to re-culture more geneseed in order to be able to implant it into new recruits. The Blood was kept 'living' in the Red Grail for a time, until it became necessary for it to be injected into the sang priests to keep it live (or whatever you want to call it).

 

True organ death takes a while (residual oxygen in tissue etc), and you can assume that medics/squad sergeants/whatevers get to the bodies of dead marines as soon as possible in order to recover and store geneseed in a stasis/cryogenic/XYZ container prior to organ death even to the point of ignoring imminent battlefield threats to attempt to recover the progenoid organs (short story involving Flesh Tearers has a sang priest ignoring an angry carnifex about to bio-plasma him to pieces while attempting to recover geneseed as quickly as he can for example).

 

However, all of the BA geneseed is descended from tissue that had undergone true organ death (unless Horus killing Sanguinius, the duel between Horus and the Emperor, Dorns discovery of the bodies, transport off the Warmasters ship and into a stasis chamber all happened within about 8 minutes that is...), and at the hands of a massive physical and psychic attack from Horus that echoed throughout the entire geneline even at the moment it happened. Possibly the greater expression/prevalence of the rage is caused by the geneseed itself still feeling the impact of that attack.

 

But that's just my take on it, and none of this actually has diddly squat to do with the OP...

 

Anything further on this I suggest we take to PMs/start a new thread/resurrect an old one, and let this thread get back on track???

[Spagunk]

The establishment of this topic is instrumental in my conspiracy theory that the rapid rate in which Blood Angels create new marines due to chapter losses is complacent in bringing on the Red Thirst and the Black Rage, though they were not the direct cause. And that originally it wasn't rapid but was later done so after the heresy.

How is that for staying on topic?

[Arkangilos]

The establishment of this topic is instrumental in my conspiracy theory that the rapid rate in which Blood Angels create new marines due to chapter losses is complacent in bringing on the Red Thirst and the Black Rage, though they were not the direct cause. And that originally it wasn't rapid but was later done so after the heresy.

How is that for staying on topic?

There is no source saying it is done faster now than before. All sources point to the *same* process happens.

And I know progenoids are from dead bodies. I'm saying that the organs aren't from Sanguinius. (Though progenoids don't have to be, they can be extracted while living)

The only thing that has changed since the great crusade was the *source* if the blood, and it makes that abundantly clear.

The codices don't give misinformation.

And the red thirst was in Sanguinius' blood from the beginning. It just got worse after he died and the blood as diluted

[Spagunk]

 

The codices don't give misinformation.

 

Yes, the inquisition smiles upon your acceptance of imperial law.

[Kol Saresk]

I'd actually argue that the blood is responsible, but perhaps not in the way Arkangilos believes.

 

We all know the basic gene-seed is supposed to take the human body and begin altering the DNA so it is more akin to the Primarch's DNA, thus allowing for the human body to withstand the changes brought about by the gene-seed.

 

We know the Blood Angels deviate from this by adding the living blood of a Primarch. Basically, they're adding a crap ton of extra genetic material that isn't a facsimile of the Primarch's DNA, but rather the whole thing.

 

We also know that not everyone can survive the regular implantation because their bodies aren't able to handle the strain, sometimes fatally so.

 

So my opinion is that the Flaw, specifically the Red Thirst, is actually a mutation brought about by genetic degradation caused by the influx of pure Primarch DNA.

 

And the reason it gets worse is because of the dilution. But it isn't the dilution itself, but rather what is diluting the DNA. Each generation is naturally degrading just because of its addition. But now, because it is simply the same blood being used over and over again, each successive generation is adding newly corrupted material to that DNA. In effect, each generation isn't just suffering from having not only the genetic degradation they would normally have, but they also have to deal with all of the added genetic degradation from all the previous generations before them.

 

Now, the Black Flaw is similar in how it spreads, but its cause is completely different in my opinion.

 

We know from the Heresy series that when a Primarch dies, the psychic connection makes the Marines going wonkers, as evidenced by the extreme self-destructive tendencies of the Iron Hands. But the Blood Angels have the actual blood of a Primarch flowing in their veins so the psychic connection is even stronger. So not only were those who were around to see the death of their Primarch were affected, but the connection was so strong that it became a genetic memory that is so powerful it leads to a psychosis in which the afflicted actually believes they are Sanguinius facing the moment of his death.

 

That's my opinion at any rate.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

The codices don't give misinformation.

 

Yes, the inquisition smiles upon your acceptance of imperial law.

Actually they don't. Granted, it is all biased from a certain point of view, but that doesn't mean it is a lie. At least not a total lie. As far as the faction of the codex is concerned, it is all truth because the Codex is written from their point of view.

[Spagunk]

Let's put it this way: Prior to the HH novels, all the fluff up to that point made it seem that the black rage and red thirst came after sanguinius died. HH novels came in and it was determined that some of it existed prior to his death. So this whole argument that because it's written now, it must be the full story is what I find egregious. There may yet be further truths that are divulged as the story unfolds.

 

It's all speculation and conspiracy theories so I don't get why there is an argument here.

[Leonaides]

 

We know from the Heresy series that when a Primarch dies, the psychic connection makes the Marines going wonkers, as evidenced by the extreme self-destructive tendencies of the Iron Hands. But the Blood Angels have the actual blood of a Primarch flowing in their veins so the psychic connection is even stronger. So not only were those who were around to see the death of their Primarch were affected, but the connection was so strong that it became a genetic memory that is so powerful it leads to a psychosis in which the afflicted actually believes they are Sanguinius facing the moment of his death.

 

That's my opinion at any rate.

Not only the blood of a Primarch, but the very flesh that was assaulted by Horus's psychic attack. All that geneseed comes from his body too, after death.

[Spagunk]

 

 ...All that geneseed comes from his body too, after death.

 

I guess I just don't understand where this is coming from. Every marine develops the gene-seed. It's activated by primarch blood but the seed is incubated/matured in marines. How the hell else would the emperor have created marines in the first place?