Lord Lee Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Hello B&C So in the background is there any stories of a marine becoming an Inquisitor and if not is it possible? Thanks Lord Lee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 In the words of the lore, it is "unheard of" for a Space Marine to become an Inquisitor. That choice of words is interesting in that something that is unheard of is not necessarily nonexistent. So it's possible that a handful of Adeptus Astartes have become Inquisitors through the millennia - if this has happened, however, there has been great secrecy around both the individuals and their deeds. In a game setting where anything is possible, I think it's likely that there has been at least one such individual. This is pure speculation on my part, of course, as there is no real support in the official lore. The Knights Errant became the Grey Knights and the human members of Malcador's Superfriends became the Inquisition. The mysterious lore for the Ordo Astartes, however, makes me wonder about the possibilities... I've created one such individual here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I don't recall any specific stories, either in direct canon or in FFG books, that give direct examples of an astartes being an Inquisitor. Is such a thing possible? Well... I suppose so, seeing as nearly anyone with ability, motivation and no binding ties elsewhere could in theory become an Inquisitor. However, I would say it's incredibly unlikely given the disposition of space marines and their mental faculties. They are bred for war rather than intrigue. Never say never, though, right? ;) (Gah. Ninja'd by Brother T. :rolleyes: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 No one expects... ...Brother Tyler Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lee Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 The reason I ask is because I like the new captain from the coming raven guard box but didn't really want another marine army (I am also doing CSM) and was looking at adding him to my Vostroyan Firstborn army as a allied SM Captain counts as Inquisitor with some Deathwatch (re normal PA marines) and just wanted it to be proper fluffy if I do so. Thanks Lord Lee Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Why not just have him as a normal inquisitor in power armour with assorted genehancements... He'd need to have something if he was regularly accompanying Deathwatch Marines just to keep up with them/not unduly hinder them. You 'could' spend a lot of time inventing a round thing that allows humans to carry greater weights longer distances for less effort or you could just use a wheel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 As mentioned in the FFG books the closest thing to this a marine becoming a permanent position with the deathwatch as a specialised role rather than returning to their chapter, these include Keepers, Kill-Marines and watch captains for the deathwatch strongholds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 The main reasons you don't have Space Marine Inquisitors are: Space Marines are normally part of Chapters, which are entirely independent organizations that support the Imperium, but aren't really part of it. Giving a Space Marine in good standing with his Chapter the position of an Inquisitor would be very odd - kind of like a UN official being simultaneously a Senator. Or maybe even a British Knight being a Senator (which is actually illegal). Despite its general inefficiencies, the Imperium actually operates on a more or less sane "checks and balances" type system (except for the fact that the "checks and balances" are "brutal assassination and internecine politics" - that cuts down on the sanity factor). The Inquisition is, in part, a check to the power of the Astartes Chapters (which is why Inquisitors have the authority - at least in theory - to investigate Space Marines). Making a Space Marine an Inquisitor would be dangerously close to giving a Space Marine chapter the authority to regulate itself. This is something the Imperium is very leery of. They are worried enough about how independent the Astartes is as it stands now. Space Marines are abhumans, which means that at the same time that they are revered by the Imperium, they are also merely tolerated. Lots of humans hate and fear Space Marines, even the loyal ones (and for that matter, a lot of the loyal ones are total dicks and deserve it). It seems unlikely that the Imperium would give this kind of high office to a Space Marine. I doubt it's officially against the rules, but it would be vanishingly rare. That said, you can definitely use the model as an unusually large or gene-enhanced Inquisitor wearing particularly large and bulky power armor. That works, too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4196907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lee Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Cool thanks for the information and ideas guys. Thanks Lord Lee Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4197105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Another potential factor that occurs to me is that, due to the need for "checks and balances", a marine would need to leave his chapter. Most depictions of Astartes indicate that membership of a chapter, with all the ties of fraternity, is a major part of an Astartes' identity. Certainly in HH depictions, loyalists bereft from traitor legions seem to experience marked disorientation. Therefore, I would imagine that it would be a rare Astartes who would contemplate giving up his membership of his chapter to become an Inquisitor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4197166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 The main reasons you don't have Space Marine Inquisitors are: ... Space Marines are abhumans, which means that at the same time that they are revered by the Imperium, they are also merely tolerated. Lots of humans hate and fear Space Marines, even the loyal ones (and for that matter, a lot of the loyal ones are total dicks and deserve it). It seems unlikely that the Imperium would give this kind of high office to a Space Marine. I'm sorry... in doing this I violate the OP and will take responsibility later but who and where are the humans that "hate and fear" Space Marines? I'm seriously perplexed by this statement as, well, it goes against near everything written by GW, FW, BL, and FFG. If that's your fluffy outlook on the grimdarkness of the 41st millennium, well alright. I would maybe steer clear of giving this off as some kind of fact. The truth of the matter is that most people don't know about Space Marines, or at least what they really are: the answer to un-winnable wars. The ones that do know about the Space Marines or at least have some knowledge of them don't know anything other that they're angels sent from the Emperor (bless His holy name). Then you have the humans that have seen them. Do they fear them? Sure. Not fear in the way you're talking about it but in a reverent way. To the point: do lots of humans hate and fear Space Marines? I think you are way off with that statement. Out of the ballpark, not in this league, out of the nationals, and not even a sport way off, in fact. The humans that hate Space Marines are the ones that live in the aftermath of war. The humans that hate Space Marines are the ones that have had encounters with Traitorous Forces. The humans that hate Space Marines are heretics and shall burn on the pyre of retribution and penance. Space Marines are abhumans and are merely tolerated? By who? Their mothers? The Man? If you're talking about the Inquisition, again, I'm perplexed. They fear them for all sorts of reasons but for being abhumans? I don't know what your definition of an abhuman is but I think it may also be flawed, along with your whole sub-point on this Inquisition matter. Space Marines are superhuman, meaning "above human". They are not abhumans: abominable humans. Abhumans are born the way they are and are, in fact, a different species of human. Space Marines, on the other hand, have nineteen (19) additional organs placed in their bodies and, along with hypno- and psychoconditioning, are made to be the epitome of the human warrior. Again, I don't know your reference or source for this idea but whatever it is, throw it away. Lastly, Space Marines have served on the High Council of Terra before and, in my own personal opinion, will do so again. PS- The Space Marines have a completely different viewpoint of how everything works. When reading your parenthetical remark on sub-point 3, it seems like you would like to bring them down to a more normal human level with human concerns and human compassion (along with certain Black Library authors). They're the most perfect weapon the Imperium has against the foul darkness of the galaxy. Sorry they come across as rough and have a hard to deal with attitude- that's not their job! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4197220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 You are clearly very well informed. I don't have the time (or resources) to quote chapter and verse at you, but I'll do my best to explain my position in the absence of evidence. I seem to recall having read some material indicating the following: In the events of several novels (specifically related to the Blood Angels and Space Wolves) it is made explicit that Inquisitors are viewed with some hostility by Astartes and that keeping an eye on the Chapters is one of the Inquisition's responsibilities, one that many Chapters resent. The Adeptus Mechanicus's tithe of geneseed is, in part, intended as a way of monitoring the Chapters to ensure their purity, and at least one Chapter (can't recall which at the time, but I encountered it while hanging around in Lexicanum, I think it was one of the "cursed founding" Chapters) became renegade after concerns about their geneseed led to their excommunication. Following the Horus Heresy, the Imperium enacted rules limiting the size of Space Marine Chapters, in part because they did not trust them anymore. One Chapter (the Dark Angels) is in violation of this edict and has engaged in numerous shady deals and other shenanigans to prevent this from getting out - another Chapter (the Astral Claws) eventually went full-chaos as a result of the fallout from their building their Chapter to a proscribed strength. The Imperium is not particularly friendly to genetically altered humans - this is why Ratlings and Squats and Ogryn are frequently second-class citizens. I can't recall where I read it, but I have seen references to this bias leading to a mistrust of Astartes. We may have to agree to disagree, but luckily the stakes are astonishingly low. If you've got any recommendations for novels I should read to enhance my knowledge of the setting, I'd be very pleased to have your advice! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4197236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Brother, let me make a list of some good Black Library books and short stories. You'll eat them up if you're anything like me. All your thoughts on the matter make sense. I'd reply more in-depth but, eh, iPad. Tell you what, how about we continue this conversation over PMs? It'll clear up the internet from our brain-shattering coversation of awesomeness and we can let these people get back to the topic at hand. The stakes are low, I do agree but I think we'll get on famously. Remember: there is no right or wrong, but you can be incorrect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4197254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusara217 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 The only real obstacle to an Inquisitor being an Astartes would be the fact that Astartes are members of Chapters, and are fanatically loyal to them (in terms of loyalty, it's Emprah first, Imperium second, Chapter third, though Imperium and Chapter are interchangeable depending on which Chapter's loyalties we're speaking of *cough*Soul Drinkers *cough**cough*) I suppose that I could easily see a Chapter being torn apart by Civil War (to the point of only a few dozen survivors), then an Inquisitor comes along and takes advantage of their weakness by using them as his personal wardogs. A few decades of fighting later, only a few are left. Inquisitor develops an attachment to one of them, names his his successor, and boom you've got yourself an Astartes-Inquisitor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4212891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUESH33P Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not exactly an expert, but I think that some astartes may become acolytes under the right circumstances and perhaps eventually hold a high-ish position in an inquisitor's personal forces. This probably wouldn't apply to deathwatch marines (Though I guess it could under extraordinary circumstances) but to support this I kind of want to bring your attention to the ending of WH40k: Space Marine (A video game from a few years ago): Throughout the game, the protagonist Captain Titus of the UM 1st company is established to be resistant to the corruption of the warp, ultimately allowing him to kill a chaos legion daemon prince. At the end of the game, a goody-two-shoes by the name of Brother Leandros who serves underneath Titus calls in an inquisitor to take Titus away under suspicion of Heresy. So then we have an inquisitor by the name of Thrax who shows up with some black templars, nonchalantly arrest Titus and they fly off. But this is where the conspiracy theories start flying around. Thrax does NOT take away Titus' bolter before he, Titus and his escorts board their valkyrie to leave, and the whole time he seems to have a look on his face that reads that he doesn't take Leandros' concerns too seriously (It's good to note that this wasn't a technical limitation, the designers chose to have Titus keep his weapon). Some people have argued that this is due to the inquisition possibly seeing cases like this regularly enough to know it's nothing bad - perhaps useful - however still wanting this to be covered up so that the common man/astartes doesn't lose their fear of the warp and it's influence. Now what would an (ordo malleus?) inquisitor do with a known space marine captain who is a total badass and resistant to chaos? That's an opportunity too rare to waste by killing him and by Inquisitorial standards Thrax seems to be a pretty rational guy. It may be reasonable to expect an induction of Titus (and any other people with this characteristic) into the warband of an inquisitor like Thrax. Now - I know this sounds like a bit of a stretch but if it were true (And we'll have no way of knowing until a sequel is released) then it would suggest that an Astartes can become an acolyte, and from acolyte possibly to an equivalent rank of inquisitor (Though not by title) within an inquisitorial detachment. Skip to about 2 mins in for the bit I'm talking about: And here's where I got some of my ravings: http://spacemarine.wikia.com/wiki/Inquisitor_Thrax The rest of it was talked about in more detail in a video I watched forever ago, so if I find that I'll add it in an edit. TL;DR An Astartes probably can't become an inquisitor, but he can maybe possibly perhaps gain a role that is technically equal to Inquisitor if the stars are aligned Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4212960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 In a galaxy as wide as 40k, with a history as deep as 40k, there is a potential for room for an Inquisitor Marine. What matters most is how well the concept is delivered, because it's certainly going to come across as exceptionally unique. Exceptionally unique things do occur, but can be incredibly difficult to deliver well. Part of me thinks that the main obstacle to the concept is the separation of powers that limits Space Marines and isolates them from the Imperial hierarchy. Inquisitors have a special place in that hierarchy, and a Space Marine Inquisitor would be seen by most as a violation of those ancient decrees. Chapters have died for less, but the key word is "most." Again, it all comes down to the delivery. To be perfectly frank, the idea of a Space Marine Inquisitor just sounds so much more interesting than all of the things blocking such a thing from happening. While again, it really does come down to how it's delivered, I'd be really interested in reading about such a thing. Heck, I'm kind of interested in making one myself. There's a Liber Challenge make-up month. I didn't do anything for the Inquisitor month, so maybe I'll vow a Space Marine Inquisitor. As for whether or not humans fear or hate Space Marines, we are given examples of this being the case. There's an Inquisitorial philosophy that views the Adeptus Astartes as little more than a tolerated mutant strain of humanity, and it's a philosophy dedicated to overturning that tolerance. The privilege enjoyed by the Imperial Fists as declaring Terra their home world is exceptional because the Terran population is described as still remembering the events of the Heresy, and maintain a deep-seated fear for Space Marines of either side. I know I'm the worst when it comes to recalling sources, but I believe we are shown an example of the latter in the Ragnar saga when he travels to Terra. There, he is attacked by a group of Imperials for the crime of being a Space Marine. These were not traitors, renegades or heretics. They were not misguided, tricked or beguiled into assaulting a Space Marine. They just hate Space Marines, and it's played up as a rather common view. I'm sure there would have been further incidents if it weren't for the fact that Ragnar and his brothers were mostly in the Navigator's slice of Holy Terra. Not too many mutant-haters get in, I'm assuming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 ecclesiarchy are also quite known for being anti-marine, for various misunderstood genetic reasons - so any redemption crusade/mouthy cardinal/semi-literate rabble-rouser could kick off a planet-wide anti-marine pogrom (or at least until some mariens turn up to 're-educate' the population... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 ecclesiarchy are also quite known for being anti-marine, for various misunderstood genetic reasons - so any redemption crusade/mouthy cardinal/semi-literate rabble-rouser could kick off a planet-wide anti-marine pogrom (or at least until some mariens turn up to 're-educate' the population... Er... aren't they generally considered to be the 'Emperor's Angels' even among the Imperial Creed? Anyone in the Ecclesiarchy pursuing a beef with astartes would have to be on a serious power grab rather than just a rabble rouser. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Not angels as commonly depicted in this day and age, though. These were horrific icons of savage divinity, of violence committed to an obscene level, immortal demigods who wage war on levels mortal men cannot comprehend. And to be fair, the demagogue need only rally the crowd against Space Marines, not the Emperor's Angels. The two are the same, but this may not be so clear to those who actually encounter them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Isnt Hector Rex a possible candidate or am I misremembering something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUESH33P Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Isnt Hector Rex a possible candidate or am I misremembering something? You raise a good point, what exactly is the connection between grey knights and inquisitors? Aren't some GK trained practically as inquisitors? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Isnt Hector Rex a possible candidate or am I misremembering something? You raise a good point, what exactly is the connection between grey knights and inquisitors? Aren't some GK trained practically as inquisitors? Grey Knights are the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus (unless that's been retconned while I was busy having lunch). Grey Knights are trained to take on daemons, not to investigate stuff and behave like detectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Centurion Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The Deathwatch are in the Inquisition, so you could have a really senior deathwatch member be an Inquisitor, but he'd be Ordo Xenos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Isnt Hector Rex a possible candidate or am I misremembering something? IIRC, Hector Rex is a human, not a space marine. Just an unusually big human. Like Andre the Giant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 What if a chapter were wiped to one marine. Couldn't that marine become an inquisitor (perhaps covertly?)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314891-fluff-wise-can-a-space-marine-become-a-inquisitor/#findComment-4213976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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